Best way to smooth a print?

[Zak Kus]

I've read a few different methods to smooth a print: sanding, rub down with acetone, that sort of thing. i've tried a few things with mixed results... anyone have any good polishing techniques?

[Herón Ordóñez Guillén]

I've been doing 2 passes of sanding on my PLA pieces, first a fine grain and finish with a very very fine grain.

White PLA looks like ceramic after sanding, but I haven't got a shiny surface yet.

for ABS I have seen some really shiny prints coated with acetone+ABS mixture.

El 27/04/2012, a las 01:08, Zak Kus escribió:

I've read a few different methods to smooth a print: sanding, rub down with acetone, that sort of thing. i've tried a few things with mixed results... anyone have any good polishing techniques?

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[Shawn]

I tried the acetone and acetone/abs mix. Painting a thin layer of
acetone (no ABS mix) leaves a much more glossy finish.

The acetone/abs mix (glue) had mixed results. It made things shiny, but
didn't really fill in any gaps either. But the shininess does help
things *seem* smoother.

Some notes about the ABS glue:
- use a glass container with a metal lid. Make sure the threads that
secure the lid to the glass are metal as well. Looks like modern baby
food jars use a plastic thread. Guess what happened to that thread...
- I've read that you should be using a 2 to 1 mix of acetone to plastic.
(2 parts acetone, one part plastic). This means you don't need a lot
of acetone! Half a baby jar is approx 140ish grams. 70 grams of scrap
rafts and bogus prints is A LOT! of plastic. Use only a little acetone
to start and add more if needed.
- Ventilation! A small uncovered container of acetone can affect a fair
size room pretty quickly. Eyes get irritated to start, then the smell
becomes very noticable.

I'm still a noob at this, but there's my experiences thus far. Hope it
helps.

Shawn

On 12-04-27 01:29 AM, Her�n Ord��ez Guill�n wrote:
> I've been doing 2 passes of sanding on my PLA pieces, first a fine grain
> and finish with a very very fine grain.
>
> White PLA looks like ceramic after sanding, but I haven't got a shiny
> surface yet.
>
> for ABS I have seen some really shiny prints coated with acetone+ABS
> mixture.
>

> El 27/04/2012, a las 01:08, Zak Kus escribi�:

>
>> I've read a few different methods to smooth a print: sanding, rub down
>> with acetone, that sort of thing. i've tried a few things with mixed
>> results... anyone have any good polishing techniques?
>>
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[Whosawhatsis]

Nail polish bottles are good too, and they include small brushes. The lids are mostly plastic, but it's acetone-resistant plastic.

On Friday, April 27, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Shawn wrote:

I tried the acetone and acetone/abs mix. Painting a thin layer of

acetone (no ABS mix) leaves a much more glossy finish.

The acetone/abs mix (glue) had mixed results. It made things shiny, but

didn't really fill in any gaps either. But the shininess does help

things *seem* smoother.

Some notes about the ABS glue:

- use a glass container with a metal lid. Make sure the threads that

secure the lid to the glass are metal as well. Looks like modern baby

food jars use a plastic thread. Guess what happened to that thread...

- I've read that you should be using a 2 to 1 mix of acetone to plastic.

(2 parts acetone, one part plastic). This means you don't need a lot

of acetone! Half a baby jar is approx 140ish grams. 70 grams of scrap

rafts and bogus prints is A LOT! of plastic. Use only a little acetone

to start and add more if needed.

- Ventilation! A small uncovered container of acetone can affect a fair

size room pretty quickly. Eyes get irritated to start, then the smell

becomes very noticable.

I'm still a noob at this, but there's my experiences thus far. Hope it

helps.

Shawn

On 12-04-27 01:29 AM, Herón Ordóñez Guillén wrote:

I've been doing 2 passes of sanding on my PLA pieces, first a fine grain

and finish with a very very fine grain.

White PLA looks like ceramic after sanding, but I haven't got a shiny

surface yet.

for ABS I have seen some really shiny prints coated with acetone+ABS

mixture.

[AKron]

I like the look of printed parts, but I've heard people using car body
filler to smooth parts. Personally, I'd work to get good, consistently
extruded lines.

[John D'Ausilio]

+1 on nail polish bottle

available cheap on ebay, I've got one with plain acetone and a few
with different color slurries ...

[Gary Crowell]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Whosawhatsis <whosaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nail polish bottles are good too, ...

American Science & Surplus

www.sciplus.com    under containers, item 40864, 15 brush-cap half-oz bottles, $3.85

 

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[Travis]

I use nail polish bottles.  You can get them from ebay in lots of 6 or 12.

For PLA, sanding is good and low risk.

If you really want a shine on PLA and the walls of your print is on the thick side, you can try pulsing it with a heat gun-- the risk being that your part sags.  The intent is to melt the outer layer but not the core. I sand my part and leave as much PLA dust on the surface as possible, anchor the part, crank the gun to its max setting (1160F on mine), and briefly pass the airstream across the part, let the part cool, repeat.  Generally, not worth the risk, though.

If you really want a shine, use ABS.

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[Joseph Chiu]

Perhaps sanding with fine sanding paper, and then spraying glossy
top-coat spray (used by model builders) would work well for PLA?

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[Kent Flowers]

I have used a CNC machine with the piece in ice cold water. Makes a bit of a mess but works well. Sanding is probably a bit easier though.

[AKron]

I see Makerbot TV is on finishing techniques. I haven't seen it yet.
http://www.makerbot.com/

[JohnA.]

They talk about sanding mostly on this one.

Ways I've seen it done:

- acetone
- acetone + abs slurry
- paint with auto primer, multi-coats and then sand
- just sand it (shown in MBTV)
- bondo + sanding
- modeling epoxy + sanding (shown in MBTV)

Would be interesting to design in some 'wiggle room' for finishing if needed.   I wonder how much you have to take off to get a well-sanded, totally smooth surface?  

JohnA.

[Eric Palmer]

Just a reminder that acetone is also flammable.  Its flash point is ~-17C.  This is very low which means that acetone vaporizes fast and can concentrate quickly at room temperature. Acetone vapors can ignite and explode. So be careful and use good ventilation. 

 

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[andrewupandabout]

Does this help? Made this video the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3nJbU9OInk&feature=g-all-pls

[MacGyver]

I'm guessing those strange hairs are because of the dual extruders on
your replicator? I'm wondering if there is a setting you could change
to make it not string so much?

[ddurant]

Print at higher resolution so you don't have to smooth it out later?

 
On Friday, April 27, 2012 2:08:24 AM UTC-4, Zak Kus wrote:

[AKron]

On May 1, 1:09 pm, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Print at higher resolution so you don't have to smooth it out later?

I thought that was a good idea, too, until I did the math. A 0.1mm
layer, which you can still see, takes 10 layers per millimeter, or
about 250 layers per inch of height. If each layer takes 1 minute,
that's 250 minutes, or a bit over 4 hours per inch of height. It only
gets worse from there. Now I'm adjusting my brain to like the layered
look, and I'm succeeding.

[Zak Kus]

I actually like to layered look. Seems to pull on the same aesthetic sense that lets me think minecraft looks cool. However there are some 3d printer haters at work that always point to the lines and occasional defects, and i would like to shut them up (also there are a few cases where i actually care to make something as indistinguishable from a production product as possible).

I've been printing at about 2/3 my original profile's default value (i think i have it at .2 mm), and it looks pretty great, but man does it take forever...

[Andrew Mazzotta]

I heard there was. Haven't tried it yet.

Have you been using a replicator for prints yet?

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[Herón Ordóñez Guillén]

I've been printing with 0.1mm layers for a while now and it does take a while but I think it's worth it.

I'd go lower but I don't think my bed is level enough.

0.1mm is a good compromise between quality and time, if you value quality a little higher than time.

if you are in a hurry, I've found that 0.25mm works fast and gives a good enough finish.

I've also found sanding PLA by hand gives a smooth surface easily. I would'nt know about ABS.

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[ddurant]

Everything's a trade-off.. If you want fast, you lose quality and/or strength. If you want it really strong, you're not going to get it quick. Etc...

 

I usually print fast, rough, hollowish copies until I'm sure the object's right then, if I want a high-quality version, I turn the fill & resolution up and go watch cartoons for a while. Personally, I'd rather wait for a longer print than have to mess with chemicals or sanding afterwards. An hour of cartoons is more appealing to me than an hour of sanding. YMMV.

 
On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 2:23:17 PM UTC-4, AKron wrote:

[Shawn]

The age old maxim: You can have it Fast, Good, Cheap - Pick any two.

[alex e]

For ABS, I dip the part in a jar of acetone for a few seconds, and
when it dries, great finish. A little light sanding first makes the
acetone bath work even better.

[MacGyver]

I have a bag of cotton swabs from the dollar store and I just dip one
of those in acetone and then just dab it where I want my models to get
smoother/shinier.It works pretty well and you don't have to worry
about dipping or having a large dish of chemical out in the open.

[Gary Crowell]

wondering if those little foam triangles used to apply makeup would work?  assuming the acetone doesn't eat them.

Gary

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[Travis]

Is there anything you do besides change the layer height?  It seems when I do 0.1 I get gushing artifacts as though its feeding the filament in too fast.  It looks better when I print with support, but I don't really need the support.

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[Herón Ordóñez]

I'm using SF44 or SF47 with the Dimension plugin activated and a 4axis machine profile for my ToM.

The Dimension plugin gives you the chance to go to lower layer heights just by changing the numbers

I also use a 0.3mm nozzle but that's not necessary.

You need to experiment with temperatures a little to get good adhesion and no curling ( there's a sweet spot at around 210C for PLA on my machine)

Enviado desde mi iPhone

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[Travis]

Thanks and very interesting. 

Does the dimension plugin come with skeenforge 47, bundled with replicatorG 34?  I see a dimension.py under skeinforge plugins/craft plugins.  If not, where can I get it?  If so, is it need to be separately enabled?  It doesn't appear to be.

So far, I can get a really good surface print at 0.1 provided I print support as well.  But my prints don't need support, and support leaves hard to clean attach points all over the print.  I'm guessing that the support relieves the excess flow.

Without support, I get curling, gushing, and stringies.  I tried adjusting the feed rate by lying about the filament diameter.  It's not quite the right knob.  trying 2.0 (still oozed), 2.5(weak+okay), 3.0(weak).   It's perfect in some places but decidedly insufficient for fill areas and shells, leaving those areas porous and weak.

You mention curling. I noticed the curling most frequently on the exterior details as the head finishes as a fill run. Besides temperature, have you found any other controls the work? 

Here are two prints that I did, 0.1 on the left and a 0.27 on the right. Ignore the overhang issues on both. Detail is much finer on the hair and shoulders in the 0.1 but her face is left looking like a burn victims. Ironically, you can make of the features better on the lower res print. 

On Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:55:05 PM UTC-5, Herón Ordóñez wrote:

I'm using SF44 or SF47 with the Dimension plugin activated and a 4axis machine profile for my ToM.

The Dimension plugin gives you the chance to go to lower layer heights just by changing the numbers

I also use a 0.3mm nozzle but that's not necessary.

You need to experiment with temperatures a little to get good adhesion and no curling ( there's a sweet spot at around 210C for PLA on my machine)

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 08/05/2012, a las 21:47, Travis escribió:

Is there anything you do besides change the layer height?  It seems when I do 0.1 I get gushing artifacts as though its feeding the filament in too fast.  It looks better when I print with support, but I don't really need the support.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 1:42:32 PM UTC-5, Herón Ordóñez wrote:

I've been printing with 0.1mm layers for a while now and it does take a while but I think it's worth it.

I'd go lower but I don't think my bed is level enough.

0.1mm is a good compromise between quality and time, if you value quality a little higher than time.

if you are in a hurry, I've found that 0.25mm works fast and gives a good enough finish.

I've also found sanding PLA by hand gives a smooth surface easily. I would'nt know about ABS.

El 01/05/2012, a las 13:09, ddurant escribió:

Print at higher resolution so you don't have to smooth it out later?

 
On Friday, April 27, 2012 2:08:24 AM UTC-4, Zak Kus wrote:

I've read a few different methods to smooth a print: sanding, rub down with acetone, that sort of thing. i've tried a few things with mixed results... anyone have any good polishing techniques?

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[Travis]

It looks like my problems were indeed temperature related.  I tried 205, down from 220 (with PLA) it the print is much clearer.  Thanks.

[Herón Ordóñez Guillén]

are you using a fan? for long prints in PLA the tube heats up and the filament gets soft inside the thermal barrier of the MK6.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8955

I use a previous version of that one to cool the thermal barrier, I can print +10h without problems. the residual air flow helps cool down the plastic too.

one more thing to try is the order in wich the different parts of a layer are printed, I do shells -> perimeter-> infill so the layer changes happen on the shells or the infill and not in the perimeter. that helps avoid blobs due to slow Z movement

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[Travis]

Interesting.  I have the replicator, so I'm not sure how I'd accomplish direct cooling on the nozzle.  I currently use a squirrel cage area fan just outside the printer frame, turned on its side to direct a plane of air across the build level.  But clearly, I had the nozzle temp set too high, so the point is moot.

Under Skienforge Extrusion->Craft->Fill, the Thread Sequence Choice order is set to Loops->Parimeter-> Infill, which is evidently the default for the 47 package that ships with ReplicatorG-34.  Is this what your talking about?

[Herón Ordóñez]

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 09/05/2012, a las 23:24, Travis <travis....@gmail.com> escribió:

Interesting.  I have the replicator, so I'm not sure how I'd accomplish direct cooling on the nozzle.  I currently use a squirrel cage area fan just outside the printer frame, turned on its side to direct a plane of air across the build level.  But clearly, I had the nozzle temp set too high, so the point is moot.

Not at all. Cooling the plastic gives you better bridges and sharper prints if you use PLA. There's some air duct designs in thingiverse for the MK7 that may work for you

Under Skienforge Extrusion->Craft->Fill, the Thread Sequence Choice order is set to Loops->Parimeter-> Infill, which is evidently the default for the 47 package that ships with ReplicatorG-34.  Is this what your talking about?

Yes, that's the setting. 

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[Travis]

Indeed!  I've been finding that airflow is even more critical at small layer heights than nozzle temp.  If I turn off my blower, I'm back to melted faces that aren't fit for human eyes.

I checked out the mk7 blowers. They all seems to be attached to fixed heads.  I think something new will need to be designed for the replicator, with it's dual, moving heads.  In the meantime, I have my planar cooling scheme that seems to do pretty well.

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[andrewupandabout]

Made a video on this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3nJbU9OInk&feature=g-upl 

Let me know if I can make a more detailed one this week.

Andrew

[pashakun]

Has anyone tried organic solvent MEK for PLA?

This Kickstarter project for a machine to polish prints predictably uses acetone solution for ABS but their FAQ says they can do the same with MEK for PLA.

I searched for reports of successful use cases and came up empty.

This one guys soaked PLS in MEK for 24 hrs, reports "rubbery feel" and no dissolution...
http://www.vinland.com/blog/?p=68

[JohnD]

Hey Pashakun - to actually answer your question - I've had the same lack of good results with PLA and MEK  - the part was partially dissolved, but in no way "polished" or "smoothed", unlike the effect you get with Acetone or Acetone vapor.

[Pasha Alpeyev]

@JohnD -- thank you for the input. I'll stick with sanding then ~

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