Replicator 2X: ReplicatorG Setup

[DRock]

Hey everyone,

I am currently switching over to ReplicatorG/Sailfish and I have a couple questions regarding homing and offsets, I am trying not to ram my nozzle into anything when I try to print my first thing haha.

I am concerned with the default settings under "Machine Options" because it says "You have a verified Replicator 2." at the bottom and I see differing home offsets so I just want to figure out what the settings are supposed to be.

The values I pulled from MakerWare were:

    "bedZOffset": 0.0,

    "startX": -110.4,

    "startY": -74.0,

    "startZ": 0.2,

But the values in ReplicatorG->Machine Options -> Homing/VREFs are:

X home offset (mm) 152

Y home offset (mm) 75

Z home offset (mm) 0

Also, I am a little confused on toolhead offsets and how they transfer into ReplicatorG.

The values I pulled from MakerWare were:

[0] 35100 micron

[1] 100 micron

[2] 0 micron

How do these translate to:

X toolhead offset

Y toolhead offset

Z toolhead offset

Thanks a bunch for any help!

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 1:13 PM, DRock wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I am currently switching over to ReplicatorG/Sailfish and I have a couple
> questions regarding homing and offsets, I am trying not to ram my nozzle
> into anything when I try to print my first thing haha.
>
> I am concerned with the default settings under "Machine Options" because it
> says "You have a verified Replicator 2." at the bottom and I see differing
> home offsets so I just want to figure out what the settings are supposed to
> be.
>
> The values I pulled from MakerWare were:
>
> "bedZOffset": 0.0,
> "startX": -110.4,
> "startY": -74.0,
> "startZ": 0.2,

You cannot use MakerWare's "Machine Options" with Sailfish on Replicators. (You can
on Thing-o-Matics and Cupcakes). Issue being that MBI has tied the EEPROM maps to
the firmware version numbers. And MBI asked us to use the 7.x version numbers for
Sailfish. Thus, there's something of a conflict since MBI and Sailfish have
conflicting version numbers.... (It works for ToMs and Cupcakes since their
version numbers are in the 3.x and 4.x range and those for Replicators started at 5.0.)

> But the values in ReplicatorG->Machine Options -> Homing/VREFs are:
>
> X home offset (mm) 152
> Y home offset (mm) 75
> Z home offset (mm) 0

Those are correct.

> Also, I am a little confused on toolhead offsets and how they transfer into
> ReplicatorG.
>
> The values I pulled from MakerWare were:
>
> [0] 35100 micron
> [1] 100 micron
> [2] 0 micron
>
> How do these translate to:
>
> X toolhead offset
> Y toolhead offset
> Z toolhead offset

1 micron = 0.001 millimeters. RepG is using millimeters. So, for RepG

X toolhead offset = 35.1 mm
Y toolhead offset = 0.1 mm
Z toolhead offset = 0.0 mm

Dan

[DRock]

Thanks!

I was unsure if 0,1,2, coincided with X,Y,Z but it seems my assumption was correct.

[DRock]

I seem to have a few more questions now.

First, in the upper right corner it states the temperature of the three thermocouples, it correctly states Replicator 2X on COM5 but it says PLA Extruder for both temperatures. I am trying to print with ABS, is this an indication of something set improperly?

Also, I am trying to slice a file for my first test print and I can't figure out how to slice it so it ends up on my desktop...why can I only select generate GCode unless I am connected to the printer? Shouldn't I still be able to build to file?

Lastly, I am using profiles by whpthomas: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:80728 and when I switch from one to another in the Generate GCode menu the settings below do not change at all.

Thanks for any help.

[DRock]

Seems I may have figured out one of my questions, I just had to disable the "Print-O-Matic" setting and then the extra stuff went away. Going to see if I can generate some code and get this thing running.

[DRock]

Just started my print and the carriage went to the front left corner and smashed into the mechanical limits of the machine which resulted in either missing a few steps or skipping some teeth on the belt. When it started to extrude it did so off of the platform which it didn't heat and overall the steppers sound much worse than they did on Makerware 2.3...also the extruder was supposed to heat up to the temperature that is set on the preheating options on the MakerBot itself and it only went to 230 and not 235.

Off to a great start!

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 4:59 PM, DRock wrote:

> I seem to have a few more questions now.
>
> First, in the upper right corner it states the temperature of the three
> thermocouples, it correctly states Replicator 2X on COM5 but it says PLA
> Extruder for both temperatures. I am trying to print with ABS, is this an
> indication of something set improperly?

No, it's just what's in the text string in the machine definition,

<tool name="PLA Extruder" ... >

You could edit the machine definition (XML file) and make it say whatever
you want. It's just an opaque text string as far as RepG is concerned.

> Also, I am trying to slice a file for my first test print and I can't
> figure out how to slice it so it ends up on my desktop...why can I only
> select generate GCode unless I am connected to the printer? Shouldn't I
> still be able to build to file?

There's no requirement that you be connected to the printer. Indeed, I
cannot remember when I last sliced with RepG and even had a USB cable
in the printer.

0. Make sure you have the correct machine type selected with Machine > Machine Type (Driver)
from the menu bar.

1. Load the STL with the "File" menu

2. Click the "Generate GCode" button near the lower right of the main window.

3. To save the file to s3g/x3g, click the third icon from the
left near the top of the window ("Build to file for use with SD card").
You can save the file to hard drive or SD card.

> Lastly, I am using profiles by whpthomas:
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:80728 and when I switch from one to
> another in the Generate GCode menu the settings below do not change at all.

They're not supposed to change: those settings do not come from the slicing profile.
Those settings are for Print-o-Matic which uses its own settings to then override
settings in the slicing profile.

And keep in mind that you can still use MakerWare as your slicer and even send
prints over USB to the bot from it if you want to. (I prefer to use SD card
myself.) You only need RepG when you first setup Sailfish and if you want to
change any "onboard parameters" on the bot.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 5:14 PM, DRock wrote:

> Just started my print and the carriage went to the front left corner and
> smashed into the mechanical limits of the machine which resulted in either
> missing a few steps or skipping some teeth on the belt. When it started to
> extrude it did so off of the platform which it didn't heat and overall the
> steppers sound much worse than they did on Makerware 2.3...

Are you using RepG 40r22 - Sailfish downloaded from the Sailfish "thing" at
Thingiverse? Or are you incorrectly using RepG 40 downloaded from the abandoned
replicat.org website?

Next, did you follow some key setup directions for Sailfish, namely

1. Reset the bot to factory defaults after loading Sailfish.

Then

2. Fire up RepG 40r22 - Sailfish (if you haven't already), select the
correct machine type (Machine > Machine Type), and then connect to the
bot over USB so that RepG sends some information to the bot concerning
it dimensions?

The moving to the front left was caused by one of

1. incorrect gcode which is parking the extruder at a location beyond the
dimensions of the 2X, or

2. having the wrong machine type selected and so RepG is converting gcode
millimeters to bot's steps incorrectly, or

3. incorrect home offsets.

Any or all of these might be caused by incorrectly using MBI's abanonded
RepG from replicat.org. It never supported the Rep 2X. (It may have had
some preliminary stuff in it for the 2X, but I believe it was incorrect.)

> also the
> extruder was supposed to heat up to the temperature that is set on the
> preheating options on the MakerBot itself and it only went to 230 and not
> 235.

You have to enable "Override GCodeTemp" via the LCD display. Look under
Utilities > General Settings. It can also be done from RepG 40r22 - Sailfish's
Machine > Onboard Parameters.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 1:13 PM, DRock wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I am currently switching over to ReplicatorG/Sailfish and I have a couple
> questions regarding homing and offsets, I am trying not to ram my nozzle
> into anything when I try to print my first thing haha.
>
> I am concerned with the default settings under "Machine Options" because it
> says "You have a verified Replicator 2." at the bottom and I see differing
> home offsets so I just want to figure out what the settings are supposed to
> be.
>
> The values I pulled from MakerWare were:
>
> "bedZOffset": 0.0,
> "startX": -110.4,
> "startY": -74.0,
> "startZ": 0.2,

Those are not the Home Positions. Those are the parking positions which MakerWare
uses and puts into the "start" gcode it generates. They are the position the
extruder is moved to while waiting for things to come to temperature. The bot
homes the XY axis, the bot homes the Z axis. Then it moves the extruder to
those startX, Y, and Z positions. Then it waits for things to heat up. Then it
starts printing.

The values you should have looked for are what MakerWare calls the Home Positions
and RepG calls the Home Offsets.

> But the values in ReplicatorG->Machine Options -> Homing/VREFs are:
>
> X home offset (mm) 152
> Y home offset (mm) 75
> Z home offset (mm) 0

Those are the correct home positions/offsets for a Rep 2X.

Dan

[DRock]

Thank you very much for the help.

I followed every step very closely and read them a few times to make sure I was understanding everything correctly, or so I thought, but I did download the ReplicatorG software from replicat and it displayed the 2X as a machine option so I thought it was from the correct, i.e. non-makerbot source. I am going to look into what is required to properly wipe the old version off my computer and install the fresh one ASAP.

I think it jammed the extruders against the hard stop when it was moving them to the initial location to begin heating up, which would mean there is an error with the startX,startY,startZ location.

Thanks again for your help.

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 5:50 PM, DRock wrote:

> Thank you very much for the help.
>
> I followed every step very closely and read them a few times to make sure I
> was understanding everything correctly, or so I thought, but I did download
> the ReplicatorG software from replicat and it displayed the 2X as a machine

That's why the extruder carriage went too far to the front left: MBI's initial
start gcode for the 2X did that. When you pulled their abandonded RepG, you
got that incorrect start gcode for the 2X. MBI released their final version
of RepG several months before the 2X was released. Presumably they either
did not have a 2X to test that final RepG with, or the prototype 2X's were
different.

> I think it jammed the extruders against the hard stop when it was moving
> them to the initial location to begin heating up, which would mean there is
> an error with the startX,startY,startZ location.

With RepG, there is no startX,startY,startZ locations. Rather there's
a complete, hand written start.gcode file which has the actual gcode
to park the extruder. And, in RepG 40 from replicat.org, that start
gcode file is incorrect for the 2X.

Dan

[DRock]

Awesome, I think that might be it.

Do you have any recommendations on how to completely uninstall and re-install ReplicatorG to get rid of all the old junk? I noticed that it doesn't actually install on the computer so I deleted the folder in C:/Users/[user name]/.replicatorg after saving my profiles but it still crashed after restarting with the correct version. I am thinking maybe there are some preferences hiding somewhere or maybe I have to do more in the software...I hope I didn't just create a big mess for myself haha.

[Dan Newman]

On 17 Nov 2013 , at 7:22 PM, DRock wrote:

> Awesome, I think that might be it.
>
> Do you have any recommendations on how to completely uninstall and
> re-install ReplicatorG to get rid of all the old junk? I noticed that it
> doesn't actually install on the computer so I deleted the folder in
> C:/Users/[user name]/.replicatorg after saving my profiles but it still
> crashed after restarting with the correct version. I am thinking maybe
> there are some preferences hiding somewhere or maybe I have to do more in
> the software...I hope I didn't just create a big mess for myself haha.

The RepG you download from Thingiverse must be run from the folder it unzips
to. That is, you

1. Download the .zip file
2. Open the .zip file
3. Move the folder in the unzipped file to your desktop or wherever.
4. Run replicatorg.exe from that folder. Do not move replicatorg.exe out of it's
folder as it needs other files and directories from that folder and it finds
those things by looking at its surroundings (i.e., expects to find those
things in the same folder as itself).

And yes, RepG does save preferences on your computer. They are saved to
wherever the Java "options" utility library saves options. Likely the
registry. However, they should not have any impact OTHER than if the
behavior of "open last STL file" was enabled. In that case, RepG tries to
open your last opened STL file. And it gets cranky if that file no longer
exists.

Dan

[DRock]

Are you saying I should only have to download the current RepG and run it from that folder? I did that and also went through these instructions: http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/90/70/42/2c/bb/ReplicatorG-Sailfish_for_Replicator_2_-_Guide.pdf but it still smashed into the X-Axis hard stop. I went through and basically started from scratch with 40r22 and re-flashed the motherboard to factory defaults, edited the tool offset, updated onboard preferences, etc...not sure what the issue is.

How do I check the min/max home positions in RepG?

[DRock]

Haven't had any luck diagnosing this, I am reluctant to try more as I don't want to break anything.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Aaron Ryan]

yes...I had this problem and just solved it tonight...I think you have the same issue.  In the Onboard Preferences/Endstops-Axis Inversion Tab...you need to "Reset motherboard to factory settings" after uploading Sailfish Firmware....

Did you do that?

I overlooked it several times and was very frustrated when my Rep2x did exactly what you are describing.

Aaron 

[DRock]

I did that after starting up the correct ReplicatorG 40r22 and was expecting it to solve the problem as it did for you but it still hit against the hard stop.

[Aaron Ryan]

Ok...thought that might be it..best :)

aaron

[Dan Newman]

On 25/11/2013, 7:50 PM, DRock wrote:
> I did that after starting up the correct ReplicatorG 40r22 and was
> expecting it to solve the problem as it did for you but it still hit
> against the hard stop.

1. Did you get around to ensuring that the toolhead offsets were sane? You asked
about them but never indicated what you then did.

2. Have you tried resetting the motherboard completely? In RepG's Machine > Onboard Preferences,
there's the button to reset to factory defaults. Also along the bottom and to the right is
a button to completely reset everything to factory defaults, including all the various
offsets. (The wording of the button is "Reset motherboard completely".)

3. What slicing profile are you using? I have a vague recollection that you may
have been using Wingcommander's samples? If so, they are not quite right for a 2X
and likely will hit the left wall. (Parking position for a 2X is a bit more restricted
than a Rep 2.)

4. Also you had indicated you were not using Print-o-Matic. In that case,
you are getting the start gcode in the slicing profile rather than the normal --
widely tested -- start gcode associated with the machine definition.

For just getting started, you should start with RepG's "Replicator 2X slicing defaults"
profile, having Print-o-Matic enabled, and checking the "use default start/end gcode"
box. Get prints working with that -- that is the setup meant for people just starting
to use RepG. Once that works for you, then branch out with custom slicing profiles.

Dan

[DRock]

1. I am attaching a picture of my toolhead offsets, these are the ones I entered (mm) into RepG.

2. I have only reset to factory defaults, I will try a complete reset if Print-o-Matic doesn't work.

3. I am indeed using Wingcommander's profiles, the extruder carriage only seems to crash on the X-Axis and not the Y-Axis which would make sense if it was trying to park it further left because it thinks it is a single extruder Rep2.

4. I am going to try out Print-o-Matic today, hopefully I have good results.

Thanks for all your help.

[Dan Newman]

On 28/11/2013, 1:03 PM, DRock wrote:
> 1. I am attaching a picture of my toolhead offsets, these are the ones I
> entered (mm) into RepG.

It's not clear what you're saying. That's a screenshot of MakerWare
showing the toolhead offsets used by MBI's firmware. MakerWare cannot
show the toolhead offsets used by Sailfish since MakerWare has no idea
where they are stored in EEPROM by Sailfish. (And they are indeed
stored somewhere else and stored with a different representation as well.)

Perhaps you're saying that you looked those values up in MakerWare *before*
installing Sailfish. And that you then installed Sailfish, and then using
RepG 40r22 - Sailfish, you input 35.1 mm, 0.1 mm, and 0.0 mm. And you absolutely
have to do that with RepG 40r22 - Sailfish. If you did that with MBI's RepG 40 from
replicat.org, you'd then have incorrect settings as regards Sailfish. (Since MBI's
RepG 40 had bugs in this regard and didn't work correctly for either Sailfish or their
own firmware.)

Dan

[DRock]

Correct, that is what I did.

I was just attaching the picture to make sure those were the correct values as shown in MakerWare. 

I am going to try a test print in a minute, hopefully I will be able to update with some good news!

Thanks again for the help.

[DRock]

Print-o-Matic fixed it right up! Waiting for it to heat up right now, hopefully the first print comes out decent.

Time to do some research to see how to adapt Wingcommander's profiles for a 2X.

[Dan Newman]

On 28/11/2013, 5:00 PM, DRock wrote:
> Print-o-Matic fixed it right up! Waiting for it to heat up right now,
> hopefully the first print comes out decent.
>
> Time to do some research to see how to adapt Wingcommander's profiles for a
> 2X.

A profile is actually a directory of files. There's a directory in the profile
called "alterations". In that directory is a file named start.gcode. In that
file is the parking position command: a G1 or G0 command with an X, Y, and Z
position. May look something like


(**** end homing ****)
G1 X-141 Y-73 Z50 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

You want to change the X and Y position (those are positions in units of mm).
Since you're having success with Print-o-Matic, you should be able to use

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z50 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

which is what RepG 40r22 - Sailfish uses for a Rep 2X when P-o-M is used.

Dan

[SJKebab]

Hi Dan,

I've been experiencing these same problems, and after reading this thread, have come to the conclusion that my own problems are almost certainly from the same cause here - using that replicat.org version.  (Hey, 40 is better than 24 isn't it? :)  )  

I'm curious though:  It seems that from how you describe it, the main difference here is in an initial GCode setting that makerbot fluffed.  Does this mean that: a) The firmware upgrade which I did using MBs version of repG is still fine, on the assumption that b) I generate .x3d files only from the repG version obtainable via thingiverse?

Or should I reinstall the firmware using the thingiverse version?

Cheers

Kev

[Dan Newman]

On 10/06/2014, 6:25 AM, SJKebab wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> I've been experiencing these same problems, and after reading this thread,
> have come to the conclusion that my own problems are almost certainly from
> the same cause here - using that replicat.org version. (Hey, 40 is better
> than 24 isn't it? :) )
>
> I'm curious though: It seems that from how you describe it, the main
> difference here is in an initial GCode setting that makerbot fluffed. Does
> this mean that: a) The firmware upgrade which I did using MBs version of
> repG is still fine, on the assumption that b) I generate .x3d files only
> from the repG version obtainable via thingiverse?
>
> Or should I reinstall the firmware using the thingiverse version?

Firmware install is the same between the two: they both just script avrdude(.exe).
The Sailfish version provides a much newer build of avrdude though.

And you definitely do not want to use machine > onboard parameters from the
abandoned RepG. It will write incorrect values, sometimes in the wrong locations,
to the EEPROM of any bot running 7.x or later firmware (MBI firmware or Sailfish).

Dan

[SJKebab]

Thanks Dan.  I lost this thread and forgot to set up google to let me know if a reply occurred.  Thanks for that!  I'll try this out tomorrow or the next day when I'm near my printer.

Cheers!

Kev

[SJKebab]

Finally had a chance to give this a go, and sure enough, those particular problems are solved now.  Thanks again!  Still got other issues going on, but at least I'm not now scared of damaging the printer.  This is damned exciting!  :)