Canola Oil!!! Holy *&@!

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David Mytchak

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:11:56 PM1/14/13
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First - thank you wpthomas for this tip!!!


I have been having issues printing lately too ( been posting here and thank you everyone! This group is a life saver ) with my Replicator 2 and came across a posting from wpthomas ( THANK YOU ).   He used just a dab of Canola oil on the filament prior to loading it in his Replicator 2.  I can testify that this has totally reconditioned, blessed, removed demons, etc from my Replicator 2.   Canola oil + Firmware 7.0 = one happy camper (at least until the next failed print ).


I wanted to post my results.   

-David

P.S. And no foul odors!

whpthomas

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:23:33 PM1/14/13
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I love the smell of canola & PLA in the morning - smells like victory!

David Mytchak

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:26:48 PM1/14/13
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Haha. Just finished my second print!

Smooth as silk! Thank you so much for this tip. I liked it so much... I started this thread ;)

whpthomas

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:38:55 PM1/14/13
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I had wondered at first if vegetable oil would effect the print strength, but I see no evidence of this. So I look at it like this, PLA is like high-tech cheese - if you melt cheese in a pan with oil, the oil and cheese separate, and the cheese melts and bonds together - I figure the hot PLA and vegetable oil do a similar thing - the oil ( and it is only a very small amount) moves to the outer surface as the filament bonds due to it higher viscosity and the changing surface tension.

Chris Milnes

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:46:52 PM1/14/13
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Do you do this on each print? or is the theory that the oil is being delivered to the grub wheel and delrin plunger and keeps them happy for many prints?   

whpthomas

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Jan 14, 2013, 10:55:47 PM1/14/13
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I just do it when I load a new reel of troublesome PLA (white and clear) - or I guess if I heard the drive gear creaking and clicking I might pull up the feeder tube and add a bit - but only the smallest amount - literally just a dab on the tip of my finger. 

From what I understand these vegetable oils only burn above 260c so while it may be adding some sort of a patina in there (much like you season a cast iron pan), it shouldn't cause any burnt deposits that might gum up the system - but to be cautious, I would apply vegetable oil very very sparingly, and only when you think you need to.

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 1:23:04 AM1/15/13
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I am going to try this. So, just a small dab on my finger, and wipe it on the end of the filament?

Ryan Gerrish

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Jan 15, 2013, 2:19:41 AM1/15/13
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I just tried it with some regular veggie oil, and have had 2 successful prints in a row! I'm going to pick up some Canola tomorrow (higher heat properties), but I couldnt resist trying some veggie. I just rubbed some on the first couple inches of filament. Who knows if it's helped or not, I've been adjusting lots of other things too.

Someone should try some truffle oil, maybe with a hint of garlic butter mixed in? Extruded the PLA onto some cooked asparagus? I know what I'm taking to my first PDXprinters meeting for appetizers!

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 2:37:49 AM1/15/13
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Thank you guys so much.

This is working.

I am now 80% through printing whpthomas's spool mod.

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 3:22:38 AM1/15/13
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Guys I can't take all the credit for this, I started of using some high temp PTFE grease - which every one said was a big no-no, so Clinton Hoines suggested I give vegetable oil a try instead - it worked even better - so I'm just spreading the word.

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 3:32:45 AM1/15/13
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It still messed up the end, but I think the spool will still be use able. Going to try the oil trick again tomorrow on some other larger prints that have not been working lately.

Overall, I just can't wait to be off this clear PLA. I'm hoping that's the problem.

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 4:23:24 AM1/15/13
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I ran the digital callipers over the MBI clear filament I received with the bot, and it from memory it ranged in diameter from about 1.7mm to 1.8mm. In my opinion this causes havoc with the plunger, it will grip in the thicker sections seat in a bit and loose grip in the narrower sections. By comparison, my translucent PLA has very little variation 1.69 +/- 0.01 so I never seem to have problems printing with it. It is only after doing my extruder upgrade http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:42250 (another shameless plug :) that I have finally been able to print with clear PLA reliably, but I still did apply a bit of olive oil in order to relieve the audible strain in the extruder - I did 10 hours of back to back unattended clear PLA printing just to up the anti - but it all worked out. 
clear-PLA-success.JPG

Doug Goodridge

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Jan 15, 2013, 4:29:26 AM1/15/13
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You guys speak of the stuff of dreams. I can't get a single reliable print from my new Rep2 with clear PLA. I've got no other plastic to try as yet.

I'm trying to print whpthomas' extruder upgrade but I can't even get the parts printed reliably (even with whpthomas' profiles in RepG). I've even tried pausing jobs at each 20% to tighten plunger but to no avail, I'm going crazy.

I might try to olive oil thing, but I'm worried as I don't understand how it works. I thought the problem was the delrin not gripping the PLA, so surely adding oil will lubricate it and just make it worse, or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Doug

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 6:32:46 AM1/15/13
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Adjusting the plunger is an art, too loose and it will slip and stall, to tight is no good either. Might I suggest that you take the stepper motor off and adjusting it by doing the following.

  1. Unload the filament form your extruder and wait for it to cool down. Wait until the heat-sink fan stops spinning.
  2. Turn off the power to your Replicator 2.
  3. Unplug the stepper motor and unscrew the two stainless steel hex head cap screws on the front of the heat-sink fan using the second biggest hex wrench provided. This will allow the extruder stepper motor and plunger assembly to be removed.
  4. Get out your second smallest hex wrench and loosen the grub screw a bit, then insert a section of your filament.
  5. Progressively tighten your grub screw, 1/8th of a turn at a time, and test that you can still turn the drive gear by turning the axle with your fingers. You will get to a point where it is too difficult to turn, so back off the previous 1/8th turn.
  6. Now holding the drive gear with your thumb, pull hard on the filament and see if you can strip it - if you can't then you have it tensioned just rich - if you can strip it, try give it another 1/8th turn.
  7. To put it all back together, position the plunger/stepper assembly on the back of the extruder and mate it with the two stainless steel hex head cap screws, then gradually tighten using finger pressure, making sure not to cross thread. They just need to be snug, so don't over tighten.
Give this adjusted plunger a try, printing at 230c with a bit of vegetable oil - if that doesn't work, you are just going to have to wait for your new filament to arrive.
plunger-adjustment.jpg
delrin-plunger-grub-screw.jpg

Doug Goodridge

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Jan 15, 2013, 6:50:33 AM1/15/13
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Thanks so much for your advice (and uploads), I've just this minute finished printing your extruder mod whilst adding a bit of olive oil each time I heard a click or two (every 20% say). It worked! The prints came out great.

I'm just awaiting the delivery of the bearing and then I can replace this damned plunger and get on with printing stuff without fear of constant failures.

Thanks again.

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 7:01:42 AM1/15/13
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Doug, one other though, try setting the clear filament diameter to 1.80 in Print-O-Matic - I think the clear filament probably has a slightly higher packing density - so temporarily going for a higher diameter may reduce the back pressure while printing. Other guys have even printed a little hotter, but I would go up in small increments like 2 ~ 3 degrees at a time. Having it too hot does lead to burnt plastic.

Here is another rather interesting experiment to try out while you have the extruder out - run a pre-heat up to say 240c then turn the heater off and manually feed the filament as the temperature drops. Press a bit of cardboard agains the nozzle and move it under as you feed the manually feed the filament - notice where it start to get harder to push. Too much pressure with the card agains the nozzle makes it difficult as does too low a temperature. This is a useful experiment to develop an intuitive feel for what is going on with your machine.

Cymon

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Jan 15, 2013, 11:31:53 AM1/15/13
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I don't use PLA, but this canola oil thing was weird enough that I had to mention it on my blog.

I think PLA has taken 3D printing down a strange road. Next someone will discover that cedar planks are the best printing surface and you can cure PLA by popping it in the oven at 350 degrees for 10 minutes.

Clinton Hoines

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Jan 15, 2013, 11:52:59 AM1/15/13
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It's actually not that weird since the plastic is derived from corn anyway. ;) lol
 
Clinton

Joseph Chiu

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:11:09 PM1/15/13
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Having gone through a recent fiasco with holiday turkey (having to do with unchilled brine), I thought, "isn't peanut oil supposed to be one of the highest-temperature oils"?  So I looked online, naturally ended up at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point) and learned that refined peanut oil is one of the higher-temperature oils, but there are others that are just as good, or better; and that the refined quality makes a big difference: high oleic canola oil is listed as having a 246 degC smoke point, while refined canola oil is listed as 204 degC.  YMMV, of course..

(Interestingly, Indian clarified butter is near the top, at 252 degC smoke point.)






--
 
 

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:24:13 PM1/15/13
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Great dig Joseph,

So it seams that Safflower oil at 266 is one of the better vegetable oils - I have been using extra light olive oil at 242, which has been working just fine.

Mark Durbin

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:26:56 PM1/15/13
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Just started a print with canola oil (known as rape seed oil in the UK) ...

MakeAlot (hopefully)


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:24 PM, whpthomas <m...@henri.net> wrote:
Great dig Joseph,

So it seams that Safflower oil at 266 is one of the better vegetable oils - I have been using extra light olive oil at 242, which has been working just fine.

--
 
 

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:32:21 PM1/15/13
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Lol, I'm guessing you meant grape seed ?

John Driggers

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:33:04 PM1/15/13
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LOL - here's the best use of sunflower oil! :-)

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:33:34 PM1/15/13
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Oops, you were right the first time! Rapeseed it is.

Mark Durbin

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:33:39 PM1/15/13
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no, rape seed, we also have grape seed! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed



On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Mathew Workman <mattworkman...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol, I'm guessing you meant grape seed ?

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Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:35:21 PM1/15/13
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Lol sorry.

Mark Durbin

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:36:31 PM1/15/13
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no problem :)


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Mathew Workman <mattworkman...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lol sorry.

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Joseph Chiu

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:37:22 PM1/15/13
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Yeah, that's what we were hoping for, too.  Actually we lost three, count 'em *three*, turkeys for Christmas dinner. :(
Fortunately, we were able to locate a 26 pounder at the local grocery and managed to spatchcock it in time for dinner.

Joseph 
(Still wistful that he has yet to try deep fried turkey)

whpthomas

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Jan 15, 2013, 12:43:53 PM1/15/13
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Where did the turkeys go? Not that nasty FedEx man again?
Message has been deleted

John Driggers

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Jan 15, 2013, 1:01:34 PM1/15/13
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No, but I guareeeeenteeee I could fit a parrot in the pot! :-)

Mathew Workman

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Jan 15, 2013, 1:02:49 PM1/15/13
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Just got off the phone with the distributer I bought that machine from. He can't get any support out of Makerbot either - just run around and defelction .

I told him the canola trick. He says he will try it, but his machine prints clear PLA with no trouble.

Cymon

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Jan 15, 2013, 1:47:21 PM1/15/13
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On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:55:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Cohen wrote:
Is that legitimate rape seed oil? :}

 Is that healthier because the body has a way of rejecting legitimate rape seed oil?

(Really didn't want to make that joke. But if I'm Mark is going to Hades for that comment, at least he'll have some company.)

David Mytchak

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Jan 15, 2013, 2:06:37 PM1/15/13
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This thread is hilarious.   

We went from Canola oil to Cheese theory, raping seeds, frying turkeys, and a frying a parrot!!!!


MY GOD I LOVE THIS GROUP!!!!!

We now need a logo!

hellphish

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Jan 15, 2013, 2:18:01 PM1/15/13
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Choose your oil carefully! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point


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Tony Buser

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Jan 15, 2013, 3:49:26 PM1/15/13
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This goes waayyyyy back and I don't recommend it anymore, but back in the day I had success with motor oil and PLA.  :)  See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4400009395/

DISCLAIMER: Do not try this at home.  :)

Jetguy

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Jan 15, 2013, 4:03:56 PM1/15/13
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Off topic:
You know what makes that cool? Anybody who owned the original Cupcake
printed that Z handle and due to lack of cooling, they all looked the
same with that giant blob of a handle. Also, curious if the printed
idlers mean that was a Cupcake made when Makerbot had to go to
existing customers and get them to print pulleys for them.
Message has been deleted

Doug Goodridge

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Jan 15, 2013, 4:51:22 PM1/15/13
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I hit the printing sweet spot, but now it's gone....

Stage 1 - No oil with stock plunger - Terrible, couldn't finish a print.

Stage 2 - Olive Oil with stock plunger - Good. With regular oiling during printing it was finishing everything I started. So I made sure I prioritised printing a new MK8 extruder mod.

Stage 3 - Olive Oil with whpthomas extruder - Problematic. The mod worked great and I think the tension is correct. I get no clicks or feed problems. However nothing is sticking to either the build plate or the blue tape. I've done several realignments and used various profiles on different models but no joy. I'm starting to think that the airflow has changed subtly and the lifting and non-sticking might be caused by fan airflow.

If I can get something to stick, then I might try printing a 40mm fan redirector I saw, just as an experiment. (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:40170)


On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:11:56 AM UTC, David Mytchak wrote:
First - thank you wpthomas for this tip!!!


I have been having issues printing lately too ( been posting here and thank you everyone! This group is a life saver ) with my Replicator 2 and came across a posting from wpthomas ( THANK YOU ).   He used just a dab of Canola oil on the filament prior to loading it in his Replicator 2.  I can testify that this has totally reconditioned, blessed, removed demons, etc from my Replicator 2.   Canola oil + Firmware 7.0 = one happy camper (at least until the next failed print ).


I wanted to post my results.   

-David

P.S. And no foul odors!

Mark Durbin

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Jan 15, 2013, 5:25:57 PM1/15/13