Introducing The Last Build Plate You'll Ever Want

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Bottleworks

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May 18, 2013, 4:01:12 AM5/18/13
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Introducing the last build plate you will ever need.  This is a 6 inch X 11 inch (152mm X 179mm) heated build plate. 

The build surface is a removable 3mm thick borosilicate glass secured to the heater plate by Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB) magnets recessed into the heater plate.  To remove, simply pull the build surface by the handles and remove from the machine.  Using glass as a build surface provides a clean, true, build surface. 

Having a removable build surface allows for easier removal of your finished prints and surface preparation (tape application, or other experimental adhesives). 

The heater plate is heated by a 130W heater controlled by the Replicator's Mightyboard.  This will be available for the Replicator 1, 2, and 2X machines.  Replicator 2 owners will have to upgrade their power supply to a higher amperage version.  Replicator 1 and 2X users can use their existing power supplies. 


Thoughts?  Who's interested? 
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SMT Guy Austin, Texas

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May 18, 2013, 4:38:53 AM5/18/13
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I'm in!

Divine Shadow

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May 18, 2013, 6:19:00 AM5/18/13
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WoW , Thats one hell of an upgrade, definitely on my wish list!

Pascal POECK

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May 18, 2013, 6:39:11 AM5/18/13
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Always depending on the price + shipping cost but definitively an awesome upgrade, well done ;)

Jake

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May 18, 2013, 7:21:03 AM5/18/13
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I've been working on my own glass plate that sits atop the Rep2X aluminum HBP.  I guess I can stop working now. :)

The handles look like they're proud of the glass plate surface.  Does it clear both nozzles on the 2X?  For reference, the 2X's left nozzle seems to be about 173mm from center line of the place when the carriage is fully left.  The right nozzle is about 153mm from center when the carriage is full right.  Hard to tell but it looks like it will clear from one of the pictures.

I can't believe I'm considering it.  (Considering? Who am I kidding, where's the paypal link? hehe)  Kind of defeats the purpose of having bought a 2X, when you replace one of its key components... but I'm not happy with the flatness of the 2X HBP.

Going to sell extra glass plates?  I'd like a second so you can prep the next plate while one is in the machine.  Aren't you sick of making Replicator upgrades? heh.

I guess put me down for one, cost dependent.


david b

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May 18, 2013, 7:23:15 AM5/18/13
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i want how much?

Eighty

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May 18, 2013, 7:48:56 AM5/18/13
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I'm in!

Infinityplusplus

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May 18, 2013, 8:11:59 AM5/18/13
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I am very interested! I will be one of the ones needing a new power supply. Anyone know roughly what these run and a good place to get one?

Jonathan Wild

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May 18, 2013, 9:08:35 AM5/18/13
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Id be interested. How much ?

Bottleworks

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May 18, 2013, 9:18:21 AM5/18/13
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Re: Price.  See attachment. 
tba-check.jpg

Jake

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May 18, 2013, 9:28:31 AM5/18/13
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Well, there's always money in the banana stand...

Bottleworks

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May 18, 2013, 9:30:29 AM5/18/13
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For those who don't get that, I'm not sure on the cost quite yet. 

There is a lot that goes into this.  The glass is custom made, the heaters are custom made, the underside stainless steel cover plate is custom made...Everything but the bolts are custom made.  Replacement glass build surfaces will be available as extras/replacements.  Yes, the left nozzle should clear on a 2X, dual Rep1.  As for replacement power supplies, I am trying to work that out.  For the "hacker" type of person, you can get a power supply for less then $30.  For someone who wants a correct OEM style P/S, it will cost more, but I'm working on that. 



On Saturday, May 18, 2013 9:18:21 AM UTC-4, Bottleworks wrote:

Bottleworks

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May 18, 2013, 9:34:29 AM5/18/13
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There is an insulation under the heater to keep the heat where it needs to be (the plate) and not project excessive heat on to the Z platform. 

Darrell jan

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May 18, 2013, 9:36:02 AM5/18/13
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Do you need to have the new arms in order to use the new plate?

Jetguy

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May 18, 2013, 9:44:18 AM5/18/13
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Step 1 is to not buy the wrong sized one that comes stock .
Step 2 is to remove the other weak points from the system such as the
power supply connector and the power switch.
Step3 is buy and use this
http://www.lightobject.com/DC-24V-15A-Switching-Power-Supply-Good-for-CNC-Stepping-Motor-Drive-P447.aspx
Step 4 is to use a mod like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@N04/8682683153/
sorry for the bad pic, jut note the hole where the power plug used to
be and the heavy #12 wire size used.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@N04/8683797948/

I'm saying this because the stock supply is KNOWN to be too small for
the job, even the bigger 220 watt version.
The bed is 130 Watts, the 2 heaters in a dual are 40 Watts each.
That's 210 Watts and we have yet to run the motors, LEDs, fans, or
electronics.
This is why Makerbot made a change in the firmware that still lives on
to this day http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/03/14/update-o-rama-replicatorg-0034-replicator-firmware-5-2/
Two (cough, cough BS) faster warmup steps. No, it's to keep from
blowing up the PSU.
Further, the default start.gcode you all print with every single time
reduces the X-Y stepper current to zero after you have homed and went
to the warmup position for the same reason. Ever wonder why those
really big platform filling prints go off the edge sometime? Yes, that
is the single dumbest assumption to home and then disable current on
the steppers and "pray" nothing moves or bumps the prints heads during
the warmup.
http://groups.google.com/group/jetty-firmware/browse_thread/thread/f536369ab5e70952/a4ff2dd8cace222b?lnk=gst&q=start#a4ff2dd8cace222b

It should be noted why I say replace the connector and the switch.
Both are rated at 10A. The stock power supply is 9.2A. You NEVER
should run any connector or switch anywhere near the rated value. They
are mechanical and will fail over time. By using a now rated 15A max
supply, the connector and the switch are the next weak link. If you
are going to do the mod, you might as well fix EVERYTHING down to the
connectors and the gcode itself.

Mike Hellers

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May 18, 2013, 9:52:49 AM5/18/13
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Looks great indeed. Count me in!


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Jetguy

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May 18, 2013, 10:09:22 AM5/18/13
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Sorry, my post was not meant to take anything away from Bottleworks
amazing work. So far, his upgrades have help many folks achieve what
the bot should have been all along.
My point was that if you are already spending $125 for the Z arms and
then this bed. It's a shame to to properly fix the other parts of the
machine.
The stock PSU is way more expensive and found in this thread
http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/thread/1da4278bee49d5e6/a37cc4279ce72823?lnk=gst&q=power+supply+schematic#a37cc4279ce72823


Poster simongeist:

Thanks for your responses. I think I will actually wait for the
exchange to
come, although it might take a while until it arrives here in
germany.
The same PS can be obtained at mouser
<http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS220A24-R7B/?
qs=dr9G5SL...>btw
but it still comes 100 € (130$).
thanks anyway,


- Moritz

BTW here is the US link http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS220A24-R7B/?qs=dr9G5SLQEJyNXgfef3LpMg==

So the mod I am suggesting is cheaper than stock too

On May 18, 9:52 am, Mike Hellers <m...@hellers.lu> wrote:
> Looks great indeed. Count me in!
>

Jetguy

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May 18, 2013, 10:14:02 AM5/18/13
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BTW a little cheaper here is you still want to go stock
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2099286_-1
$91 VS $134

On May 18, 10:09 am, Jetguy <barrych...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, my post was not meant to take anything away from Bottleworks
> amazing work. So far, his upgrades have help many folks achieve what
> the bot should have been all along.
> My point was that if you are already spending $125 for the Z arms and
> then this bed. It's a shame to to properly fix the other parts of the
> machine.
> The stock PSU is way more expensive and found in this threadhttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/thread/1da4278b...
>
> Poster simongeist:
>
> Thanks for your responses. I think I will actually wait for the
> exchange to
> come, although it might take a while until it arrives here in
> germany.
> The same PS can be obtained at mouser
> <http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS220A24-R7B/?
> qs=dr9G5SL...>btw
> but it still comes 100 € (130$).
> thanks anyway,
>
> - Moritz
>
> BTW here is the US linkhttp://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS220A24-R7B/?qs=dr9G5S...

David Celento

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May 18, 2013, 10:44:25 AM5/18/13
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Nice work! Interested as well.

GBR1

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May 18, 2013, 10:59:07 AM5/18/13
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I am keen, will you offer a complet package, bed, alu arms and power supply?

Make life a lot easier for us folks outside the US otherwise we are paying for heaps of shipping for different items..

Great work..

GBR1

Bradley Pearce

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May 18, 2013, 11:02:27 AM5/18/13
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I can do a package deal for the platform and arms. Maybe the power supply, if you want a stock version. They are expensive. I am trying to convince MBI to sell the PS's.  

Sent from my iPhone
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Dan Newman

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May 18, 2013, 11:58:35 AM5/18/13
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FWIW, Bottleworks kindly sent me a prototype a couple of weeks ago which I have
been using on my Rep 2. It works quite well: I can successfully print ABS on my
Rep 2! I have even been using it for PLA, but at a much lower temp (~50C; blue
painter's tape). That's something Rep 1 and Thing-o-Matic owners who print in
PLA are known to do on occassion.

The Aluminum plate is nicely machined with insulation on the underside to keep
excess heat away from the Rep 2's stock ABS arms. The insulation works quite well,
although I've not put a temp sensor underneath to check -- just my fingers. (And
since the design is evolving, any quantitative numbers would not be representative
of the finished product anyway.)

Installation was very simple and didn't require any special tools -- just the hex
wrench shipped with the bot so that the electronics bay can be accessed. The Rep 2
motherboard already has the necessary connectors for the heated build surface's
wiring and the hookup there is simple as well. With the prototype I'm using, I
did not need to move my Z endstop nor add a shim to the Z axis assembly: tramming
the build surface worked fine without making changes.

And yes, I still have ABS arms on my Rep 2 but I will upgrade them soon.

Sailfish supports use of the HBP with the Rep 2. I don't see any reason why it
shouldn't work as well with MBI's firmware, although I have not tested that myself.

So far I've not had any problems using the upgrade and it is nicely designed and
executed. For the time being, I'm using my Rep 1's power supply.

Dan

Dave Lockwood

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May 18, 2013, 12:36:37 PM5/18/13
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Awesome! Count me in as well!

BTHOON

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May 18, 2013, 12:39:21 PM5/18/13
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I'm in

Dan Newman

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May 18, 2013, 12:43:17 PM5/18/13
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That's the same PSU I've been planning to put in both my Rep 1 and Rep 2.
However, I've been planning to install a standard non-switched, fused,
non-filtered IEC-style A/C power entry receptacle as well (I have a box
of Schurter modules somewhere). That way, there's no dangling cord.
And non-switched, since I'd prefer that the family not get into the habit
of turning the bot off by turning off power to the PSU, leaving the
bot running for ~1 second on power below spec, possibly causing brown-out
related issues. I'll stick with a properly rated, easily accessible
switch on the side like Jetguy did. (And my Rep 1 also has the 5V linear
reg bypassed like Jetguy's and a switching DC/DC regulator used. Not
sure what Jetguy used for his.)

BTW, for 120VAC the contacts should be rated 5A or better since the PSU is
supplying 15A @ 24V (360W). While you might think that means 3A @ 120 VAC,
you need more since the PSU is not 100% efficient and you don't want to be
on the edge anyway. Me, I'll likely use a Schurter 6200.2100 which sells
for about $3 USD. (Shipping is more, but I have 'em around already.)

Nice thing about what Jetguy did is it avoids carrying the power brick around
as a separate item. You can of course, just velcro the MBI supplied brick to the
underside of the bot -- being mindful of cooling issues -- and get the same net
effect as regards transport issues.

Dan
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RocketGuy

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May 18, 2013, 2:01:18 PM5/18/13
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I've been attempting to do something similar, including the magnets... And now I'll just save some time and say "me too". I'd buy in for it, with 2 glass plates and a meanwell P/S, tbd, assuming the cost is within reason.

Sudden revelation here- if the build platform is glass thermally pasted to the heater permanently(with or without a SS thermal spreader), heat times are reduced *significantly*. So why not make the heating element removable along with the glass? Magnets to mount it, sprung heavy contacts for the heater and thermistor? It would cost slightly more, but I'd be willing to pay it to save 5 minutes in each preheat, that adds up over time.

And then we could also have the second stage pre-heating outside the printer before the swap, even partially would save a huge amount of time.

I'm still in though, adding these refinements would truly make it the last stage needed, but starting from the bigger stage you propose would still save me time, I'd end up being in 2X I guess.

Darrell jan

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May 18, 2013, 2:41:21 PM5/18/13
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OK, I'm in.

But what I'd really like is the "All Aluminum(with steel where necessary) Last 3D Printer you'll ever want"!  ;)

Daniel Reetz

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May 18, 2013, 6:55:45 PM5/18/13
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I'm interested. The only real question for me is - how fast can I get it? Wink.

Zach

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May 18, 2013, 7:14:28 PM5/18/13
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I'm in for a kit, depending on price.

RoboSysop

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May 18, 2013, 7:32:31 PM5/18/13
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I'm in.

Steven Castoe

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May 18, 2013, 10:01:51 PM5/18/13
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Take my money.

On May 18, 2013 12:01 AM, "Bottleworks" <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:
Introducing the last build plate you will ever need.  This is a 6 inch X 11 inch (152mm X 179mm) heated build plate. 

The build surface is a removable 3mm thick borosilicate glass secured to the heater plate by Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB) magnets recessed into the heater plate.  To remove, simply pull the build surface by the handles and remove from the machine.  Using glass as a build surface provides a clean, true, build surface. 

Having a removable build surface allows for easier removal of your finished prints and surface preparation (tape application, or other experimental adhesives). 

The heater plate is heated by a 130W heater controlled by the Replicator's Mightyboard.  This will be available for the Replicator 1, 2, and 2X machines.  Replicator 2 owners will have to upgrade their power supply to a higher amperage version.  Replicator 1 and 2X users can use their existing power supplies. 


Thoughts?  Who's interested? 

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Eric

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May 18, 2013, 11:30:18 PM5/18/13
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I'm interested; I am curious to know if you can print without the tape, and would like more info on the power supply/hook ups. 

Stan Velijev

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May 19, 2013, 7:02:10 AM5/19/13
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Yeah I'm interested if tape is necessary. I've bought both a glass plate and an aluminum plate so far, but both cannot be printed on without something covering them or a spray due to the heat conductivity of the surface shrinking and popping off the PLA. So sadly, I'm still on acrylic after 1000 print hours.

If it's heated then I don't see why that would be an issue - could you test out maybe an hour long build on bare heated glass?

Side note: I paid for arms about 2 weeks ago, are those shipping anytime soon?

Eric Weber

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May 19, 2013, 7:18:05 AM5/19/13
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Cool. Count me in :-)

Fastrack

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May 19, 2013, 10:09:36 AM5/19/13
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Wow... Just wow. But what on earth would I do with the 6 pieces of glass I already have from the group by!

I'm in depending on price.

Ben

Nolightforyou

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May 19, 2013, 11:58:02 AM5/19/13
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I'd be interested in just getting the build surface if that was possible.... something that uses my existing BP on the Rep 2, but has a surface you can pop off and twist for easy-release.   Any possibility of something like that?

Dan Newman

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May 19, 2013, 12:00:51 PM5/19/13