Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
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shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 1:13:13 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
what makes this printer http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=64
seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
about this printer?
How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
ReplicatorG
One last question: how is this printed http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
anything i can think of short of just filling it with supports
everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
drippy output.
I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
Thank you for your time.
Shawn
and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
what makes this printer http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=64
seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
about this printer?
How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
ReplicatorG
One last question: how is this printed http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
anything i can think of short of just filling it with supports
everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
drippy output.
I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
Thank you for your time.
Shawn
JohnA.
Jan 27, 2011, 1:24:49 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
The item you showed was printed on a different type of printer that
works in a completely different way than either an UP! or a Thing-o-
Matic, so it's not really bound by the way that we build our models.
The "Why does the UP work well" question has a lot of answers,
including but not limited to:
- their software does some neat tricks
- they use proprietary, smaller diameter filament (that's only
officially available from them, though others are working around this)
- they use a stepper based extruder, similar to a Mendel (and being
experimented with on makerbots by lots of people now)
- they use linear rails and a metal case, so variations between
assembly are a lot less than ours
and on and on. It's a whole different thing -- but for now it's a
very closed thing. You can't improve it, you can't really tweak it,
and you're really tied to them for support / development.
JohnA.
On Jan 27, 1:13 pm, shawn m <shawn.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> what makes this printerhttp://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layou...
works in a completely different way than either an UP! or a Thing-o-
Matic, so it's not really bound by the way that we build our models.
The "Why does the UP work well" question has a lot of answers,
including but not limited to:
- their software does some neat tricks
- they use proprietary, smaller diameter filament (that's only
officially available from them, though others are working around this)
- they use a stepper based extruder, similar to a Mendel (and being
experimented with on makerbots by lots of people now)
- they use linear rails and a metal case, so variations between
assembly are a lot less than ours
and on and on. It's a whole different thing -- but for now it's a
very closed thing. You can't improve it, you can't really tweak it,
and you're really tied to them for support / development.
JohnA.
On Jan 27, 1:13 pm, shawn m <shawn.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
> One last question: how is this printedhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
ddurant
Jan 27, 2011, 1:36:27 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
The ToM has some nice features but I'd probably still get a Cupcake if
I was starting over right now. The cupcake is about 1/2 the price and
you can do various upgrades to make it get the same quality as a ToM
for under $100. It'll take time & effort - and a fair amount of
printing - but that's the way I'd go.
A common problem with *ALL* of these kinds of machines is managing
heat and the effects it has on printing small parts. Also, machines
with DC motor extruders (Cupcake, ToM) don't have anywhere near the
filament control/predictability that machines with stepper motor
extruders do, which makes it a bit more difficult to dial in a nice
profile.
> gothic cathedral play set
That one is a pretty epic print.
The UP! people, IMO, sorta cheated on their picture of this print -
they downloaded the files, resized them to about 2X their normal size
then printed the blown-up version.
UP! does have some advantages to the MBI machines in that they limit
the amount of control you have over the machine profile and they limit
the filament stock that's supported by the bot. The advantage there is
that they're more predictable because there's fewer things for the
user to mess up and the filament stock is very consistant. From
another perspective, those are both disadvantages because knowledgable
users are limited in the tweaks they can do and are locked into one
filament supply and can't use the wide range of colors and suppliers
that we can.
The UP! also comes with a stepper extruder, which is a great thing.
You can upgrade Cupcakes and ToMs with stepper extruders, though -
I've got a MakerGear one which was about $200 complete.
I think a Cupcake with maybe $3-400 in upgrades can do the same
quality that an UP can do. The ToM wouldn't need quite as much
upgrading but the net cost will still be a fair amount higher than the
Cupcake.
The notes say it's SLS polyamide, which is a very different process
than FDM machines use. It's also very, very nice and pretty damned
expensive. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering
I was starting over right now. The cupcake is about 1/2 the price and
you can do various upgrades to make it get the same quality as a ToM
for under $100. It'll take time & effort - and a fair amount of
printing - but that's the way I'd go.
A common problem with *ALL* of these kinds of machines is managing
heat and the effects it has on printing small parts. Also, machines
with DC motor extruders (Cupcake, ToM) don't have anywhere near the
filament control/predictability that machines with stepper motor
extruders do, which makes it a bit more difficult to dial in a nice
profile.
> gothic cathedral play set
That one is a pretty epic print.
The UP! people, IMO, sorta cheated on their picture of this print -
they downloaded the files, resized them to about 2X their normal size
then printed the blown-up version.
UP! does have some advantages to the MBI machines in that they limit
the amount of control you have over the machine profile and they limit
the filament stock that's supported by the bot. The advantage there is
that they're more predictable because there's fewer things for the
user to mess up and the filament stock is very consistant. From
another perspective, those are both disadvantages because knowledgable
users are limited in the tweaks they can do and are locked into one
filament supply and can't use the wide range of colors and suppliers
that we can.
The UP! also comes with a stepper extruder, which is a great thing.
You can upgrade Cupcakes and ToMs with stepper extruders, though -
I've got a MakerGear one which was about $200 complete.
I think a Cupcake with maybe $3-400 in upgrades can do the same
quality that an UP can do. The ToM wouldn't need quite as much
upgrading but the net cost will still be a fair amount higher than the
Cupcake.
The notes say it's SLS polyamide, which is a very different process
than FDM machines use. It's also very, very nice and pretty damned
expensive. See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> what makes this printerhttp://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layou...
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
> One last question: how is this printedhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
Zip Zap
Jan 27, 2011, 1:46:30 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
Get both.
If you don't like putting things together, replacing burned out resistors(MK5), axis adjustments, soldering, and ending up with a small pile of extra screws, tape, and a tool box of tools for your Makerbot then avoid buying one. I believe the extra money you spend on a single UP Printer will make up for the extra work and money spending to keep your one Makerbot maintained.
The only gain I get from my Makerbot is that now I know how to put one together and therefore can build a second one from scratch minus the electronics. You definitely need more than one printer if you want to save time by multiplying your print jobs. All 3D printers are time hogs and making more than one Makerbot type printer is an inexpensive option. Furthermore, many parts and even the housing itself can be downloaded and printed out or cut out of wood. You also can buy parts from multiple vendors like SDP or McMasters. On the other hand, UP Printers are $3000 each. A second one of these is out of the question for many.
Again, get both, a Makerbot and an UP and experience the differences for yourself.
From: shawn m <shawn...@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
If you don't like putting things together, replacing burned out resistors(MK5), axis adjustments, soldering, and ending up with a small pile of extra screws, tape, and a tool box of tools for your Makerbot then avoid buying one. I believe the extra money you spend on a single UP Printer will make up for the extra work and money spending to keep your one Makerbot maintained.
The only gain I get from my Makerbot is that now I know how to put one together and therefore can build a second one from scratch minus the electronics. You definitely need more than one printer if you want to save time by multiplying your print jobs. All 3D printers are time hogs and making more than one Makerbot type printer is an inexpensive option. Furthermore, many parts and even the housing itself can be downloaded and printed out or cut out of wood. You also can buy parts from multiple vendors like SDP or McMasters. On the other hand, UP Printers are $3000 each. A second one of these is out of the question for many.
Again, get both, a Makerbot and an UP and experience the differences for yourself.
From: shawn m <shawn...@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
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Anderson Ta
Jan 27, 2011, 1:54:21 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
You can hit the forums for a promo code that will enable you to get an Up! for 1500/1650, depending on model.
As someone who owns multiple 3D printers (Mendel, MakerBot, Up!), it comes down to how much time you want to spend with your machine. If you want something that prints w/e you want with little to no tinkering, get an Up! If you want to spend a fair amount of time getting your prints to print decent, get a Makerbot or a Mendel.
It is nice to have multiple 3D printers, it def comes in handy when one goes down (or in my case both, Mendel and Makerbot fails all the time for me). My Up! is the reason my other printers can have a sustained life.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
makeme
Jan 27, 2011, 2:37:49 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
Hey Shawn,
First, the print you linked to on thingiverse was made with this
process http://www.arptech.com.au/services/slsrv.htm
SLS is one of several methods of printing that uses a powder. The
unfused powerder acts as a support material and you just lift the part
out when you're done.
However, powder-based prints are generally fragile. You have to
perform another process on them to make them strong enough to handle
roughly.
ABS is always tough...even when you don't want it to be. You can build
structural (IE: useful) parts on an FDM (FFF) machine, but on a SLS
machine.
The UP! printer is better at printing because it's an appliance. You
pay more for it because it's got better engineering and quality
control.
The Thing-o-matic is better at being awesome because it's a hobby. You
invest more time into building it, tweaking it, and upgrading it
because you want to participate in an industrial revolution.
http://printthat.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/why-i-bought-a-makerbot-thing-o-matic/
The only reason I'd recommend getting an UP! is if you really really
want to base a business around 3d printing and you don't want to pay
another company (like Ponoko) to do the printing for you. Or, maybe,
if you are only interested in the modeling part of the process and
don't want to worry about the machine itself.
First, the print you linked to on thingiverse was made with this
process http://www.arptech.com.au/services/slsrv.htm
SLS is one of several methods of printing that uses a powder. The
unfused powerder acts as a support material and you just lift the part
out when you're done.
However, powder-based prints are generally fragile. You have to
perform another process on them to make them strong enough to handle
roughly.
ABS is always tough...even when you don't want it to be. You can build
structural (IE: useful) parts on an FDM (FFF) machine, but on a SLS
machine.
The UP! printer is better at printing because it's an appliance. You
pay more for it because it's got better engineering and quality
control.
The Thing-o-matic is better at being awesome because it's a hobby. You
invest more time into building it, tweaking it, and upgrading it
because you want to participate in an industrial revolution.
http://printthat.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/why-i-bought-a-makerbot-thing-o-matic/
The only reason I'd recommend getting an UP! is if you really really
want to base a business around 3d printing and you don't want to pay
another company (like Ponoko) to do the printing for you. Or, maybe,
if you are only interested in the modeling part of the process and
don't want to worry about the machine itself.
ddurant
Jan 27, 2011, 3:31:30 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
> If you want to spend a fair amount of time getting your prints to print decent, get a Makerbot or a Mendel.
As more and more people start to get stepper extruders, this is going
to become less and less of an issue. At least on the software side of
things.
Even I, Mr 20mm Calibration Cube himself, don't even bother with test
prints any more. I just pick the profile settings I want and have
software that figures out the extruder settings. The most awesome
thing about a stepper extruder isn't that it's a smaller or a more
reliable extruder, though mine is both of those, it's that it's very
predictable.
Aside from mechanical/process limits, this works suprisingly well.
Over the last couple nights, I've been testing this and printed the
same object about a dozen times with different settings - from a big
honkin' 0.50mm layer height down to a wafter thin 0.08mm layer height
(a new personal record - yay me). Without having to dial in each
profile. On a Cupcake.
Things are just going to get easier and easier. It's coming and it's
coming soon..
On Jan 27, 1:54 pm, Anderson Ta <ata0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can hit the forums for a promo code that will enable you to get an Up! for 1500/1650, depending on model.
>
> As someone who owns multiple 3D printers (Mendel, MakerBot, Up!), it comes down to how much time you want to spend with your machine. If you want something that prints w/e you want with little to no tinkering, get an Up! If you want to spend a fair amount of time getting your prints to print decent, get a Makerbot or a Mendel.
>
> It is nice to have multiple 3D printers, it def comes in handy when one goes down (or in my case both, Mendel and Makerbot fails all the time for me). My Up! is the reason my other printers can have a sustained life.
>
> On Jan 27, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Zip Zap wrote:
>
>
>
> > Get both.
>
> > If you don't like putting things together, replacing burned out resistors(MK5), axis adjustments, soldering, and ending up with a small pile of extra screws, tape, and a tool box of tools for your Makerbot then avoid buying one. I believe the extra money you spend on a single UP Printer will make up for the extra work and money spending to keep your one Makerbot maintained.
>
> > The only gain I get from my Makerbot is that now I know how to put one together and therefore can build a second one from scratch minus the electronics. You definitely need more than one printer if you want to save time by multiplying your print jobs. All 3D printers are time hogs and making more than one Makerbot type printer is an inexpensive option. Furthermore, many parts and even the housing itself can be downloaded and printed out or cut out of wood. You also can buy parts from multiple vendors like SDP or McMasters. On the other hand, UP Printers are $3000 each. A second one of these is out of the question for many.
>
> > Again, get both, a Makerbot and an UP and experience the differences for yourself.
> > To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> > Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
>
> > I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> > and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> > Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> > Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> > more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> > what makes this printerhttp://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layou...
> > Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> > Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
>
> > I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> > and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> > Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> > Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> > more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> > seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> > the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> > cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> > tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> > about this printer?
>
> > How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> > the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> > still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> > and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> > ReplicatorG
>
> > One last question: how is this printedhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
> > the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> > cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> > tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> > about this printer?
>
> > How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> > the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> > still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> > and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> > ReplicatorG
>
> > anything i can think of short of just filling it with supports
> > everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
> > drippy output.
>
> > I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
> > components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
> > confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
> > something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
> > this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
>
> > Thank you for your time.
> > Shawn
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
> > everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
> > drippy output.
>
> > I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
> > components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
> > confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
> > something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
> > this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
>
> > Thank you for your time.
> > Shawn
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
>
> > --
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
> > --
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>
> - Show quoted text -
shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 3:45:22 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
@Zip Zap Thank you for your suggestion but this strictly falls into
the category of a toy for me, I don't really plan on doing any sort of
production with it. Because of this the time I spend on it is worth
less than the 2000$ extra for the UP.
@ddurant Where do you see the cupcake for half the price? It looks to
me like makerbot is still selling it for 900. Also that is a cleaver
trick to just make it 2x the size on all the parts.
Has anyone tried to make a SLS polyamide printer? I would think that
it would be something that could be added on to a laser cutter. The
laser cutter they had at school already had the adjustable hight tray
so I would think all that would be needed is a system for managing the
plastic powder. Although I am guessing I am wrong from how big the
Thank you for the quick responses.
On Jan 27, 11:46 am, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Get both.
>
> If you don't like putting things together, replacing burned out resistors(MK5),
> axis adjustments, soldering, and ending up with a small pile of extra screws,
> tape, and a tool box of tools for your Makerbot then avoid buying one. I
> believe the extra money you spend on a single UP Printer will make up for the
> extra work and money spending to keep your one Makerbot maintained.
>
> The only gain I get from my Makerbot is that now I know how to put one together
> and therefore can build a second one from scratch minus the electronics. You
> definitely need more than one printer if you want to save time by multiplying
> your print jobs. All 3D printers are time hogs and making more than one
> Makerbot type printer is an inexpensive option. Furthermore, many parts and
> even the housing itself can be downloaded and printed out or cut out of wood.
> You also can buy parts from multiple vendors like SDP or McMasters. On the
> other hand, UP Printers are $3000 each. A second one of these is out of the
> question for many.
>
> Again, get both, a Makerbot and an UP and experience the differences for
> yourself.
>
> ________________________________
> From: shawn m <shawn.me...@gmail.com>
the category of a toy for me, I don't really plan on doing any sort of
production with it. Because of this the time I spend on it is worth
less than the 2000$ extra for the UP.
@ddurant Where do you see the cupcake for half the price? It looks to
me like makerbot is still selling it for 900. Also that is a cleaver
trick to just make it 2x the size on all the parts.
Has anyone tried to make a SLS polyamide printer? I would think that
it would be something that could be added on to a laser cutter. The
laser cutter they had at school already had the adjustable hight tray
so I would think all that would be needed is a system for managing the
plastic powder. Although I am guessing I am wrong from how big the
Thank you for the quick responses.
On Jan 27, 11:46 am, Zip Zap <zzap...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Get both.
>
> If you don't like putting things together, replacing burned out resistors(MK5),
> axis adjustments, soldering, and ending up with a small pile of extra screws,
> tape, and a tool box of tools for your Makerbot then avoid buying one. I
> believe the extra money you spend on a single UP Printer will make up for the
> extra work and money spending to keep your one Makerbot maintained.
>
> The only gain I get from my Makerbot is that now I know how to put one together
> and therefore can build a second one from scratch minus the electronics. You
> definitely need more than one printer if you want to save time by multiplying
> your print jobs. All 3D printers are time hogs and making more than one
> Makerbot type printer is an inexpensive option. Furthermore, many parts and
> even the housing itself can be downloaded and printed out or cut out of wood.
> You also can buy parts from multiple vendors like SDP or McMasters. On the
> other hand, UP Printers are $3000 each. A second one of these is out of the
> question for many.
>
> Again, get both, a Makerbot and an UP and experience the differences for
> yourself.
>
> ________________________________
> To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
>
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> what makes this printerhttp://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layou...
> Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
>
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
>
> seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
> One last question: how is this printedhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
> seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
> anything i can think of short of just filling it with supports
> everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
> drippy output.
>
> I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
> components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
> confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
> something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
> this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
>
> Thank you for your time.
> Shawn
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MakerBot Operators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
> everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
> drippy output.
>
> I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
> components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
> confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
> something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
> this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
>
> Thank you for your time.
> Shawn
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MakerBot Operators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
ddurant
Jan 27, 2011, 4:45:44 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
> @ddurant Where do you see the cupcake for half the price?
Er.. Only in my memory, I guess.
I would have sworn they had Cupcakes for sale at around $650 but
you're right, it says $900 now. Maybe it was a limited-time sale on
'em or something.
You haven't said much about what you're going to do with the machine.
Another thing to consider is build size - if you need something that
can do more than 4-5 inches square, you're probably going to end up
with a Mendel or one of it's variants..
Luis E. Rodriguez
Jan 27, 2011, 4:40:55 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
This is late in the game but as a owner of a cupcake, thing-o-matic, and UP! I can honestly say none are error free. I still love my cupcake and like what's been said before its all relative to your level of entry into this world of personal fabrication. Nobody's mentioned the Ultimaker (http://blog.ultimaker.com/), look of that one for another option. Its supposed to be released soon. or check out this guy-http://www.grassrootsengineering.com/blog/mymachine/ which is based on Gen3 makerbot electronics.
I think Dave MIGHT be referring to this expired discount: http://blog.makerbot.com/2010/12/30/friends-of-makerbot-operators-discount/
Luis E. Rodriguez
Really its "what's my motivation here?" Do I want a kit, just hit print, innovate a whole new idea? Be part of the this Industrial Revolution 2.0? Now in full disclosure its easy for me to say buy, buy, buy because my workplace supports my addiction...err..research in this field.
If I were starting today and saving up money I'd by the electronics and plastruder and have someone cut the case out for you (friend plug: http://builttospecstore.storenvy.com/) in two tone acrylic. Ok not necessary but you get the idea.
I've used the UP! to print parts for mendels and parts for myself. I wish it was more tweakable but quite frankly its a fun design to think about emulating.
I still think about these bag of Mendel parts I was able to print on a demo Dimension uPrint printer. I need another profile to figure like a hole in the head.
I'm rambling but you can spend a little and get great results with a cupcake and have fun modding the hell out of it. I just fried my ToM by printing for two days so nothing is fool-proof. (I was helping Michael Curry print another cathedral and replacements parts for his first.) He was running both from his laptop.
Rambling over.
Luis E. Rodriguez
shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 5:16:28 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
I find the Mendel a little intimidating since there doesn't seem to be
any one company that has all the parts and I have a fear of sitting
around with 90% of a Mendel trying to McGyver the last piece with a
rubber band and a paperclip, but this may just be my own paranoia.
How much of the electronics and motors are similar between the TOM and
the Mendel?
As for what I want to use it for, I like the idea of being able to
make my own plastic parts for projects. I had a few projects in mind
that wouldn't really require more space than the makerbot has such as
a car mount for my android phone, walking spider robot, mounting
brackets and a fan mount for a hacked together laptop external gpu
that I built a while back. I also had the crazy idea of making
replacement RC helicopter parts but that may be one of those things
that requires a mythbusters style blast shield :-)
I suspect that they were selling the cupcakes for $650 to clear out a
back stock of them and now they would need to print up all the laser
cut parts again if someone ordered one.
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
any one company that has all the parts and I have a fear of sitting
around with 90% of a Mendel trying to McGyver the last piece with a
rubber band and a paperclip, but this may just be my own paranoia.
How much of the electronics and motors are similar between the TOM and
the Mendel?
As for what I want to use it for, I like the idea of being able to
make my own plastic parts for projects. I had a few projects in mind
that wouldn't really require more space than the makerbot has such as
a car mount for my android phone, walking spider robot, mounting
brackets and a fan mount for a hacked together laptop external gpu
that I built a while back. I also had the crazy idea of making
replacement RC helicopter parts but that may be one of those things
that requires a mythbusters style blast shield :-)
I suspect that they were selling the cupcakes for $650 to clear out a
back stock of them and now they would need to print up all the laser
cut parts again if someone ordered one.
Ross Mosshart
Jan 27, 2011, 5:22:47 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
I find it funny that no one has mentioned the MakerGear Prusa Mendel yet...at $825 its pretty hard to beat...
On Jan 27, 2011 4:16 PM, "shawn m" <shawn...@gmail.com> wrote:
I find the Mendel a little intimidating since there doesn't seem to be
any one company that has all the parts and I have a fear of sitting
around with 90% of a Mendel trying to McGyver the last piece with a
rubber band and a paperclip, but this may just be my own paranoia.
How much of the electronics and motors are similar between the TOM and
the Mendel?
As for what I want to use it for, I like the idea of being able to
make my own plastic parts for projects. I had a few projects in mind
that wouldn't really require more space than the makerbot has such as
a car mount for my android phone, walking spider robot, mounting
brackets and a fan mount for a hacked together laptop external gpu
that I built a while back. I also had the crazy idea of making
replacement RC helicopter parts but that may be one of those things
that requires a mythbusters style blast shield :-)
I suspect that they were selling the cupcakes for $650 to clear out a
back stock of them and now they would need to print up all the laser
cut parts again if someone ordered one.
On Jan 27, 2:45 pm, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote: > > @ddurant Where do you see the cupcake ...
JohnA.
Jan 27, 2011, 5:36:11 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
The original person didn't really say 'tell me all of the printers
around' so I'm guessing that's why it didn't come up.
(Nobody mentioned botmill, or techzone, or any of the other places
selling complete kits either)
JohnA.
On Jan 27, 5:22 pm, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find it funny that no one has mentioned the MakerGear Prusa Mendel
> yet...at $825 its pretty hard to beat...
>
around' so I'm guessing that's why it didn't come up.
(Nobody mentioned botmill, or techzone, or any of the other places
selling complete kits either)
JohnA.
On Jan 27, 5:22 pm, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I find it funny that no one has mentioned the MakerGear Prusa Mendel
> yet...at $825 its pretty hard to beat...
>
> On Jan 27, 2011 4:16 PM, "shawn m" <shawn.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I find the Mendel a little intimidating since there doesn't seem to be
> anyHE one company that has all the parts and I have a fear of sitting
>
> I find the Mendel a little intimidating since there doesn't seem to be
shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 6:27:13 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
Maybe I should ask about the printers around then, which one of the
open source hardware printers do you guys consider to be the best in
terms of how well the part comes out after it is built and calibrated?
-Shawn
open source hardware printers do you guys consider to be the best in
terms of how well the part comes out after it is built and calibrated?
-Shawn
ddurant
Jan 27, 2011, 7:06:53 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
> Maybe I should ask about the printers around then
The Ultimaker seems like is should be just frickin' insane (printing
at 300mm/s!!!!) but it's pretty new. So new that it's not even out
yet. Erik's a very bright guy, though - this might be an awesome, game-
changing machine. Or it might not. Definitely not vaporware but still
a bit of an unknown.
Anything from MakerGear has a pretty strong (and deserved, IMO)
reputation for rating very high in works-as-advertised and as having
good support.
UP! has the biggest plug-n-play thing going. Makerbots are probably
2nd. Mendels &c are a bit of a distant 3rd, though if you figured out
how to post here, they're not beyond your capabilities.
Z LeHericy
Jan 27, 2011, 7:18:21 PM1/27/11
to makerbot
I totally prefer the cupcake over most of the other printers
It's modifiable, like a RepRap, has a nice frame so you can transport it easily, it's open source (unlike the UP!) the makerbot suport staff are AWESOME! and it's a great machine to have on your desktop! Mine's been pretty reliable, and since I've gotten it tuned nicely, It's been a ton of fun printing things out!
--
shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 7:18:28 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
Do the MakerGear Mendel printers use ReplicatorG as well or do they
use something else? ReplicatorG does not seem to have an option for
the mendel in terms of configurations. Do I just need to download the
Config from somewhere?
use something else? ReplicatorG does not seem to have an option for
the mendel in terms of configurations. Do I just need to download the
Config from somewhere?
shawn m
Jan 27, 2011, 7:19:13 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
Do the MakerGear Mendel printers use ReplicatorG as well or do they
use something else? ReplicatorG does not seem to have an option for
the mendel in terms of configurations. Do I just need to download the
Config from somewhere?
use something else? ReplicatorG does not seem to have an option for
the mendel in terms of configurations. Do I just need to download the
Config from somewhere?
ddurant
Jan 27, 2011, 7:26:33 PM1/27/11
to MakerBot Operators
> Do the MakerGear Mendel printers use ReplicatorG as well
You should check with Rick on that one, this being the Makerbot google
group and all. Visit the MakerGear google group or IRC #makergear on
freenode. If it doesn't work with RepG yet, I assume it will
eventually. Eventually = weeks or maybe months, not years.
I see lots of changes going into RepG - it's just a question of when
they get solid and released for public consumption...
Zip Zap
Jan 27, 2011, 9:55:06 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
Doesn't MakerGear sell the printed parts for cheap?
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 2:16:28 PM
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 2:16:28 PM
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
> > > makerbot+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
--
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Zip Zap
Jan 27, 2011, 9:57:19 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
That $650 price was around last Christmas as I remember. The $900 price was for the Ultimate Cupcake. I believe those are sold out.
From: ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 1:45:44 PM
From: ddurant <ddur...@gmail.com>
To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 1:45:44 PM
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
> > makerbot+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
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Message has been deleted
Mike Payson
Jan 27, 2011, 11:43:03 PM1/27/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
The Makergear Prusa uses the RAMPS electronics. The most common software to use with RAMPS is RepSnapper, but you can use ReplicatorG if you prefer.
makeme
Jan 28, 2011, 2:26:07 AM1/28/11
to MakerBot Operators
And an option that hasn't been mentioned yet is to just go wild with
some sort of repstrap. Basically, design and build your own 3d
printer.
It's not as hard as you might expect. All you need is a way to create
motion in 3 axes, a way to extrude a thin noodle of plastic, and a
frame to hold it all together. You can grab an extruder from
makergear, and electronics from makerbot (whenever they go on sale
again), and hardware from Home Depot, and get it all working together.
The kits you see being sold are just a more refined version of that.
That's why they still have so many problems...err...opportunities!
When you have a repstrap that can print something (anything) you can
use it to make the parts for improving itself or building one of the
popular models like a mendel.
some sort of repstrap. Basically, design and build your own 3d
printer.
It's not as hard as you might expect. All you need is a way to create
motion in 3 axes, a way to extrude a thin noodle of plastic, and a
frame to hold it all together. You can grab an extruder from
makergear, and electronics from makerbot (whenever they go on sale
again), and hardware from Home Depot, and get it all working together.
The kits you see being sold are just a more refined version of that.
That's why they still have so many problems...err...opportunities!
When you have a repstrap that can print something (anything) you can
use it to make the parts for improving itself or building one of the
popular models like a mendel.
Ketil Froyn
Jan 28, 2011, 2:47:26 AM1/28/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
Nobody has mentioned Fab@home yet. Does anyone here have experience with one of those? They seem to be quite expensive.
Ketil
JohnA.
Jan 28, 2011, 7:49:31 AM1/28/11
to MakerBot Operators
I've never seen a Fab@Home that was printing in plastic -- only
frosting / silicone / or other 'goo'. Doesn't meant it can't, I just
didn't think they focused on it.
Again, getting back to the original question.....
If you're looking for the absolute best prints on day one, then it's
probably an Up!. If you're looking for the best prints down the line
(since the technology / tools / configurations / materials keep
improving) then one of the open source solutions is probably the best
bet.
Which one will depend on what you need to do, how good you are with
the technology and tools, etc. MakerBot has a support structure in
place that none of the other printers have yet, so if you get
something that doesn't work right you can usually find help, get
replacement parts, and even show up in person if you're local. Each
physical printer layout has it's own benefits and drawbacks.
I think the Ultimaker will be interesting, but since it's not
available (and I thought someone said it was going to go for 1500€)
it's not really an option for anyone yet.
My $.02.
JohnA.
On Jan 28, 2:47 am, Ketil Froyn <ke...@froyn.name> wrote:
> Nobody has mentioned Fab@home yet. Does anyone here have experience with one
> of those? They seem to be quite expensive.
>
> Ketil
> .> For more options, visit this group at
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
frosting / silicone / or other 'goo'. Doesn't meant it can't, I just
didn't think they focused on it.
Again, getting back to the original question.....
If you're looking for the absolute best prints on day one, then it's
probably an Up!. If you're looking for the best prints down the line
(since the technology / tools / configurations / materials keep
improving) then one of the open source solutions is probably the best
bet.
Which one will depend on what you need to do, how good you are with
the technology and tools, etc. MakerBot has a support structure in
place that none of the other printers have yet, so if you get
something that doesn't work right you can usually find help, get
replacement parts, and even show up in person if you're local. Each
physical printer layout has it's own benefits and drawbacks.
I think the Ultimaker will be interesting, but since it's not
available (and I thought someone said it was going to go for 1500€)
it's not really an option for anyone yet.
My $.02.
JohnA.
On Jan 28, 2:47 am, Ketil Froyn <ke...@froyn.name> wrote:
> Nobody has mentioned Fab@home yet. Does anyone here have experience with one
> of those? They seem to be quite expensive.
>
> Ketil
> On 28 Jan 2011 08:26, "makeme" <bluebac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > And an option that hasn't been mentioned yet is to just go wild with
> > some sort of repstrap. Basically, design and build your own 3d
> > printer.
>
> > It's not as hard as you might expect. All you need is a way to create
> > motion in 3 axes, a way to extrude a thin noodle of plastic, and a
> > frame to hold it all together. You can grab an extruder from
> > makergear, and electronics from makerbot (whenever they go on sale
> > again), and hardware from Home Depot, and get it all working together.
> > The kits you see being sold are just a more refined version of that.
> > That's why they still have so many problems...err...opportunities!
>
> > When you have a repstrap that can print something (anything) you can
> > use it to make the parts for improving itself or building one of the
> > popular models like a mendel.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>
> "MakerBot Operators" group.> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>
> makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.c om>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > And an option that hasn't been mentioned yet is to just go wild with
> > some sort of repstrap. Basically, design and build your own 3d
> > printer.
>
> > It's not as hard as you might expect. All you need is a way to create
> > motion in 3 axes, a way to extrude a thin noodle of plastic, and a
> > frame to hold it all together. You can grab an extruder from
> > makergear, and electronics from makerbot (whenever they go on sale
> > again), and hardware from Home Depot, and get it all working together.
> > The kits you see being sold are just a more refined version of that.
> > That's why they still have so many problems...err...opportunities!
>
> > When you have a repstrap that can print something (anything) you can
> > use it to make the parts for improving itself or building one of the
> > popular models like a mendel.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>
> "MakerBot Operators" group.> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>
> .> For more options, visit this group at
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bill Culverhouse
Jan 28, 2011, 9:03:36 AM1/28/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
Yeah it does ABS. The toolhead is the "Plastic Tool":
-b
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
Adam
Jan 28, 2011, 1:29:04 PM1/28/11
to MakerBot Operators
So, not to hijack this thread or anything, but are you going to
release this profile calibration software? I'm a day or two away from
having a stepper based ToM (TheRuttmeister based MK5 upgrade) and
would love to see some hints on how to do a good calibration for one.
Thanks!
> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
release this profile calibration software? I'm a day or two away from
having a stepper based ToM (TheRuttmeister based MK5 upgrade) and
would love to see some hints on how to do a good calibration for one.
Thanks!
ddurant
Jan 28, 2011, 2:22:59 PM1/28/11
to MakerBot Operators
> but are you going to
> release this profile calibration software?
I'll probably make it public in about -1 month. :P http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5310
> release this profile calibration software?
I've got another/better version that I need to upload but the one
there works. It's a bit rough but it works. I've been thinking about
having it run skeinforge for you instead of just generating the
profile dir but haven't gotten to it yet. I should just upload what
I've got and save future stuff for later releases.
Basically, you feed it your drive gear diameter and filament diameter
then give it some min/max values for feed/flow/layer height/thread
width and it gives you a list of flow rates that work for those
values.
There's also a (contentious!) value that lets you tweak the math a
bit. On my machine, with my filament, I find that ABS volume coming
out of the extruder is about 85% of the volume going in. This is not
mass loss - it's volume loss. I know one other person who also sees
very close to this so it's not just me.. It's a little backwards -
tweak the value ("Gear swell mod") higher if you're getting too much
plastic and tweak it lower if you're not getting enough plastic. Once
you get it right, you should be able to ask it to do any profile and
it'll work; it's a one-time tweak, not a per-profile tweak. (or maybe
once-per-filament stock)
Rob Gisburt is also working on "volumetric 5D" so you won't need any
external tool - it'll be right in skeinforge.. http://tinkerings.posterous.com/
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Adam
Jan 29, 2011, 9:53:20 AM1/29/11
to MakerBot Operators
Oh, hey thanks! I'll look forward to the new release.
On Jan 28, 12:22 pm, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > but are you going to
> > release this profile calibration software?
>
> I'll probably make it public in about -1 month. :P http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5310
>
> I've got another/better version that I need to upload but the one
> there works. It's a bit rough but it works. I've been thinking about
> having it run skeinforge for you instead of just generating the
> profile dir but haven't gotten to it yet. I should just upload what
> I've got and save future stuff for later releases.
>
> Basically, you feed it your drive gear diameter and filament diameter
> then give it some min/max values for feed/flow/layer height/thread
> width and it gives you a list of flow rates that work for those
> values.
>
> There's also a (contentious!) value that lets you tweak the math a
> bit. On my machine, with my filament, I find that ABS volume coming
> out of the extruder is about 85% of the volume going in. This is not
> mass loss - it's volume loss. I know one other person who also sees
> very close to this so it's not just me.. It's a little backwards -
> tweak the value ("Gear swell mod") higher if you're getting too much
> plastic and tweak it lower if you're not getting enough plastic. Once
> you get it right, you should be able to ask it to do any profile and
> it'll work; it's a one-time tweak, not a per-profile tweak. (or maybe
> once-per-filament stock)
>
> Rob Gisburt is also working on "volumetric 5D" so you won't need any
> external tool - it'll be right in skeinforge..http://tinkerings.posterous.com/
> > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext -
On Jan 28, 12:22 pm, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > but are you going to
> > release this profile calibration software?
>
> I'll probably make it public in about -1 month. :P http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5310
>
> I've got another/better version that I need to upload but the one
> there works. It's a bit rough but it works. I've been thinking about
> having it run skeinforge for you instead of just generating the
> profile dir but haven't gotten to it yet. I should just upload what
> I've got and save future stuff for later releases.
>
> Basically, you feed it your drive gear diameter and filament diameter
> then give it some min/max values for feed/flow/layer height/thread
> width and it gives you a list of flow rates that work for those
> values.
>
> There's also a (contentious!) value that lets you tweak the math a
> bit. On my machine, with my filament, I find that ABS volume coming
> out of the extruder is about 85% of the volume going in. This is not
> mass loss - it's volume loss. I know one other person who also sees
> very close to this so it's not just me.. It's a little backwards -
> tweak the value ("Gear swell mod") higher if you're getting too much
> plastic and tweak it lower if you're not getting enough plastic. Once
> you get it right, you should be able to ask it to do any profile and
> it'll work; it's a one-time tweak, not a per-profile tweak. (or maybe
> once-per-filament stock)
>
> Rob Gisburt is also working on "volumetric 5D" so you won't need any
The Ruttmeister
Jan 29, 2011, 3:18:53 PM1/29/11
to MakerBot Operators
On Jan 28, 10:29 am, Adam <carm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, not to hijack this thread or anything, but are you going to
> release this profile calibration software? I'm a day or two away from
> having a stepper based ToM (TheRuttmeister based MK5 upgrade) and
> would love to see some hints on how to do a good calibration for one.
>
> Thanks!
Calibration can be done 95% of the way in one step.
Print a large single wall object at your desired layer height, flow
rate and feed speed. Measure the wall thickness with digital calipers.
Divide by layer thickness. Enter that value in the perimeter and
infill w/t boxes.
Done.
Then turn 'Cool' on, set it too 'slow down'. Print something like the
small gear from my improved stepper upgrade and watch the coolness as
it slows down for the smaller layers!
ddurant
Jan 29, 2011, 3:56:17 PM1/29/11
to MakerBot Operators
> Oh, hey thanks! I'll look forward to the new release.
Already there.. I uploaded it last night.
ddurant
Jan 29, 2011, 4:20:15 PM1/29/11
to MakerBot Operators
> Measure the wall thickness with digital calipers. ... Divide ... w/t
That does indeed work but runs into problems if you want a print with
particular properties. Like, if you want to print something with extra
thin walls, you probably want to chose the w/t (or, rather, thread
width) instead of measuring whatever comes out of the machine and
using that. Or if you have a print that requires strength, you'll want
to tend towards higher w/t values.
I think it's better to tweak feed rate if you've got a DC extruder and
flow rate if you've got a stepper extruder. That way, you're deciding
the characteristics of the object and tweaking the way it's produced.
Changing feed or flow rates doesn't really effect the resulting object
- changing layer height or w/t does.
That does indeed work but runs into problems if you want a print with
particular properties. Like, if you want to print something with extra
thin walls, you probably want to chose the w/t (or, rather, thread
width) instead of measuring whatever comes out of the machine and
using that. Or if you have a print that requires strength, you'll want
to tend towards higher w/t values.
I think it's better to tweak feed rate if you've got a DC extruder and
flow rate if you've got a stepper extruder. That way, you're deciding
the characteristics of the object and tweaking the way it's produced.
Changing feed or flow rates doesn't really effect the resulting object
- changing layer height or w/t does.
The Ruttmeister
Jan 29, 2011, 6:10:46 PM1/29/11
to MakerBot Operators
On Jan 29, 1:20 pm, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Measure the wall thickness with digital calipers. ... Divide ... w/t
>
> That does indeed work but runs into problems if you want a print with
> particular properties. Like, if you want to print something with extra
> thin walls, you probably want to chose the w/t (or, rather, thread
> width) instead of measuring whatever comes out of the machine and
> using that. Or if you have a print that requires strength, you'll want
> to tend towards higher w/t values.
>
of their machine removes the need for doing the maths. (Not that the
maths isn't important, its just that I think its faster for people to
make a change, measure and move on).
For example, I know that my Cupcake (like most) tops out at 60mm/s
feed rate. So with a DC extruder I would just run at that speed. If I
need thicker or thinner walls I can increase the extra shells, but I
stick with the 0.3 layers and 60mm/s because I know it gives strong
walls with little risk of delamination.
If I'm running a stepper extruder then it becomes more complex... But
still the simplest way is to pick a layer height, feed speed and flow
rate, and work with what it gives you (or correct roughly till you get
in the region you need).
And when I say 95%, I mean that I'm having far bigger issues with ooze
and backlash in the extruder than I am with the accuracy of my w/t
settings. QDprinting if you will.
> I think it's better to tweak feed rate if you've got a DC extruder and
> flow rate if you've got a stepper extruder. That way, you're deciding
> the characteristics of the object and tweaking the way it's produced.
> Changing feed or flow rates doesn't really effect the resulting object
> - changing layer height or w/t does.
>
thing' fraught with inconsistencies and dead motors.
And changing feed rates can have big effects, especially with ABS.
Lower feed rates tend to stretch the extrudate less, meaning less
warping. It also effects the 'cleanness' of corners and other fine
details.
If I was trying to produce super fine walled objects (less than 0.7mm)
then I might worry about it... But I'm not, so I don't really see the
need to crunch the numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing the results
of the 5D and volumetric 5D work though!
Brian Gottlieb
Feb 28, 2011, 7:56:41 AM2/28/11
to make...@googlegroups.com
Any clue as to where this forum and coupon code might exist? I'm
looking at buying an UP, because I can't handle my damn Mendel not
printing any longer.
looking at buying an UP, because I can't handle my damn Mendel not
printing any longer.
> ________________________________
> From: shawn m <shawn...@gmail.com>
> To: MakerBot Operators <make...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 10:13:13 AM
> Subject: [MakerBot] Considering buying a Thing-O-Matic
>
> I have been considering buying a 3d printer for the past few months
> and have been watching the improvements that came with the Thing-O-
> Matic over the cupcake and am impressed so far. From the items on the
> Thingiverse it seems that gears and other mechanical parts are much
> more common now. But the one thing I am somewhat curious about is
> what makes this
> printer http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=64
> seem so much more accurate than the Thing-O-Matic. Just looking at
> the print of the gothic cathedral play set, it seems to make much
> cleaner prints. Is this just a matter of finishing the parts or
> tuning the machine well? or is there something mechanically better
> about this printer?
>
> How much of a time investment is it to get the parts to be as good as
> the things on the Thingiverse after the machine is constructed? I am
> still looking through and trying to understand the Skeinforge options
> and downloading random parts and hitting the simulate button on
> ReplicatorG
>
> One last question: how is this
> printed http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255?
> anything i can think of short of just filling it with supports
> everywhere or printing each half one at a time would make for a very
> drippy output.
>
> I like the Thing-O-Matic better since I am familiar with the
> components like the Arduino and the stepper motor drivers and am
> confident that I can debug the open source firmware as opposed to
> something else that would be much harder to pop the hood open on. For
> this reason I am likely to go with the Thing-O-Matic anyway.
>
> Thank you for your time.
> Shawn
>
> --
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>
>
>
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Luis E. Rodriguez
Feb 28, 2011, 11:53:06 AM2/28/11
to make...@googlegroups.com, Brian Gottlieb
Posting here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?pli=1#!topic/pp3dp/yWMRFk3BQUA
or here is a good start: http://www.pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=271
Luis E. Rodriguez
Brian Gottlieb
Feb 28, 2011, 12:52:14 PM2/28/11
to Luis E. Rodriguez, make...@googlegroups.com
Thanks, Looks like time is about up on the promotion, maybe I'll get
one. ahh well, there goes another 1500 buks. poof!
one. ahh well, there goes another 1500 buks. poof!
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