Re: What filament comes with R2X?

[Jake]

I asked this question recently.  The answer I got was that the 2X comes with ABS and they still don't know how much or if PLA will be "involved".

Also I asked about the SD Card.  Apparently the unit comes with a SD card, and there is a promo code for an SD card of sliced models.  I was worried that they weren't including the SD card anymore when I saw the SD Card promo code.  But apparently, its a 2nd SD Card of pre-sliced models, and that with the promo code, you'll wind up with 2 SD cards.

[russel...@gmail.com]

I wonder if I'll get the same answer.  I called them last week with a few questions, and one specific question was about using a single extruder and PLA.  My concern was all the red warning labels they put on the item, and whether I could expect it to function at least as well as the R2 if I only used PLA and a single extruder.  They said sure, no problem.  Obviously I'd expect it to eventually do more, but out of the box, I'd hope for at least PLA capability.   They led me to believe ABS was the bigger challenge, so it's interesting they would include ABS. 

As for the SD promo, I can't seem to find any info on that.  Is the code something you can share, or can you point me to where I can find it? 

I'll probably call them tomorrow with all the questions I can think of, since I'm ready to order either the R2 or R2X.   I'm leaning toward the R2X in hopes that they've fixed some of the R2 issues. 

Thanks,
Rusty

[Bottleworks]

The problem with ABS is that it isn't a big problem. Folks on here have way more issues with PLA then ABS (based off of posts).  The modifications people had to do the the Replicator 1 is what they made the Replicator 2X based on. 

[Eighty]

There are two reasons why I'm not sure I want a Rep 2X. First, the build size is smaller than a Rep2. Same bed, as I understand it, but dual extruders make for less travel. Second, the dual extruders double the mass on the gantry. So ringing will be much more apparent for the same speeds. The options would be to either live with the ringing or slow down the prints.
I don't currently think I need ABS capabilities. Dual extrusion would be nice, but not sure it's worth the trouble.

[Kobus du Toit]

When I ordered mine I selected ABS filament and I paid for all the ABS I selected.  Didn't seem like I was getting anything for free

On Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:54:41 PM UTC+10, russel...@gmail.com wrote:

Has anyone asked MBI what filament comes with the R2X?  I'd guess it would have two rolls, probably PLA, but I don't see that listed anywhere on the item description. 

Thanks,
Rusty

[russel...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the comments.  I'll try to call MBI tomorrow to see what they say will come with the machine, but maybe the reason I can't find it listed is that it doesn't come with anything.  That would be disappointing, but it's better to know up front. 

The machine will be something to experiment with, but I'll also be trying to print a few items for a side business I have, since I'm currently limited to CNC routers.  I'm new to 3D printing, so we'll see how that works out :-)   Since I want to be able to print ABS, it makes the choice between R2 and R2X pretty easy, but I sure hate giving up 1.5 inches in the build size.  Would the R2 ever be able to print ABS?  I know it doesn't have a heated built plate, but I guess I'm not sure if that's an absolute requirement. 

I looked really hard at the new CubeX, and they claim to print ABS with no heated plate, or heated chamber.  I'm too new to argue, but I didn't think that was supposed to work.   I love their huge build area, and they also claim they can use the full single head area if you select one of two heads on the dual machine.  The biggest problem is the high dollar mystery cartridges.  They won't even tell you the diameter of the filament, much less how much material is in the cartridge.  Heck, I'm surprised they even give you a list of the colors :-)  

Thanks,
Rusty

[Clinton Hoines]

You would get a bigger build volume if you get the Replicator 1 and do the XL mod and no wait. ;) Mine currently has a build volume of 10X6X10 fully encased, all added up for my mods so far with the machine is still under the price of a Rep2. And yes if you want to print large ABS pieces you will need a HBP or it will warp no question about it. A complete encased bot is even better. Just my .02$ on your question.

 

Clinton

[Andy]

Regarding dual printing and the cubeX.  One of the articles I read said it has a wiper directly on the extruder platform.  I haven't seen any more info about this, but if true, this will certainly improve "stock" dual color printing over the rep2x, since it has no wipe device of any kind. You could always add one, but apples to apples, the cubeX for dual printing is very close to the same price as the rep2x and has wipe functionality built in.   I want to read up on user experience with their machines but the previous gen cube was positivity reviewed by make magazine in the 3d printer shoot out.  The cubeX is obviously a very different design than the cube.

It also has the bigger build volume than the rep2x as you mentioned.  Not a fan of paying for locked down, over priced print material though!!  Also, no sailfish.  

Jetguy, any comments about the cubeX engineering/mechanics?

-Andy

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[hellphish]

I am absolutely in love with my TOM, but it has taken me two years of upgrades and mods to get it to that point. It is really hard for me, as a huge fan my own printer, to recommend someone buy MBI right now. All of their advertisement makes them seem like a very professional outfit, but they are still selling a printer that struggles to compete with other hobbiest offerings. I look around and see you can get full metal printers with leadscrew driven axes and a large borosilicate glass bed for around 2k (using a proven extruder design!).  Besides the huge support community, what is the draw? 

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[Owen M Collins]

If you look here:

http://youtu.be/r6NZf8VH90w

People from tested.com talked to Cube/3d systems. You can see a closeup of the wipe and they mention the functionality.

Isn't' it $100 a cartridge? and how much is that is weight? Pricey...

O.

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[Mark Cohen]

I am sure you can use the rep 2 for abs. Just turn off that side fan and print small objects.

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[Jetguy]

Sorry, I actually hadn't looked at the cubeX, but certainly will now.
I'm always on the lookout for ideas to put into the Ultimate T-O-M
upgrade bot.

On Jan 20, 8:24 pm, Andy <ganstad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Regarding dual printing and the cubeX.  One of the articles I read said it has a wiper directly on the extruder platform.  I haven't seen any more info about this, but if true, this will certainly improve "stock" dual color printing over the rep2x, since it has no wipe device of any kind. You could always add one, but apples to apples, the cubeX for dual printing is very close to the same price as the rep2x and has wipe functionality built in.   I want to read up on user experience with their machines but the previous gen cube was positivity reviewed by make magazine in the 3d printer shoot out.  The cubeX is obviously a very different design than the cube.
> It also has the bigger build volume than the rep2x as you mentioned.  Not a fan of paying for locked down, over priced print material though!!  Also, no sailfish.
>
> Jetguy, any comments about the cubeX engineering/mechanics?
>
> -Andy
>

> On Jan 20, 2013, at 4:50 PM, russell.du...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks for the comments.  I'll try to call MBI tomorrow to see what they say will come with the machine, but maybe the reason I can't find it listed is that it doesn't come with anything.  That would be disappointing, but it's better to know up front.
>
> > The machine will be something to experiment with, but I'll also be trying to print a few items for a side business I have, since I'm currently limited to CNC routers.  I'm new to 3D printing, so we'll see how that works out :-)   Since I want to be able to print ABS, it makes the choice between R2 and R2X pretty easy, but I sure hate giving up 1.5 inches in the build size.  Would the R2 ever be able to print ABS?  I know it doesn't have a heated built plate, but I guess I'm not sure if that's an absolute requirement.
>
> > I looked really hard at the new CubeX, and they claim to print ABS with no heated plate, or heated chamber.  I'm too new to argue, but I didn't think that was supposed to work.   I love their huge build area, and they also claim they can use the full single head area if you select one of two heads on the dual machine.  The biggest problem is the high dollar mystery cartridges.  They won't even tell you the diameter of the filament, much less how much material is in the cartridge.  Heck, I'm surprised they even give you a list of the colors :-)
>
> > Thanks,
> > Rusty
>

> > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[russel...@gmail.com]

I appreciate all the comments.  I'm not sure if I should be glad to see that video interview for the CubeX though.  I've REALLY liked the looks of that machine, and I might just end up going that way.  I had a dual head in the cart a couple days ago, and backed out, so the extra features like the wiper are pushing me that way again.  There may be a way to dumb down those "smart" cartridges to reduce the cost. 

I'll agonize some more, but I'll decide something pretty soon. 

Thanks,
Rusty

[Jetguy]

Sorry but I think a few of us gave up and just build our own these
days. I'm at least trying to share my designs so someone else can
enjoy.

That said, from a pure metal hardware perspective, Those QU-BDs are
priced right. It's not something I wold recommend for a novice, or
somebody not interested in the mechanics, but if your trying for bang
for the buck and likely willing to put some effort into it, might be a
stellar machine.

I can say that it's a hard market right now. Everybody is being vague
and leaving out critical hardware details, The recent 3D printer
shootout is on the previous gen of bots so not helpful. I would hold
off until at least somebody has one for a week. I know it's torture
but far worse is getting one and deciding early on it's not the bot
you paid for. Don't know if you guys noticed how much your paycheck
got cut this month by the new taxes, but my first two weeks reduction
was a equivalent to the cost of a 5 lb spool filament. It's more than
double that for the whole month so you guys who get paid once a month
are going to flip out and cancel your order when you get paid at the
end of the month. Not trying to bring in politics at all, this is just
money and facts.

I don't see how anyone can afford a new bot unless your banking on a
tax return and that may not be a good investment of that money.

[Avandss]

i saw the machine at ces... pretty impressive... but the resolution of that basketball was not great at all

[Eighty]

And per the specs on the website, the CubeX will only print at 15mm/s max. That's slow...

[Andrew Russell]

That is very slow.  Maybe thats how they manage to print w/o a heated build platform?

The basketball must be printed at their low res setting if it only took 20 hours.  

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Eighty <adun...@gmail.com> wrote:

And per the specs on the website, the CubeX will only print at 15mm/s max.  That's slow...

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[russel...@gmail.com]

It seems they're giving volume, not linear speed.  It's hard to read, but the spec they list is 15 cubic mm per second, so probably not as slow as it initially sounds. 

[Eighty]

I'll be darned - you're right.  The font is so small, I would never have picked that up unless someone pointed it out.

So how in the world do you spec a printer in volume/second?  Is that for a 100% solid piece, or a hollow piece?  And at what resolution?  If i do the math on their finest Z resolution (125 microns), and further assume that they have a 0.4mm nozzle, then the other part of the volume calculation has to be 300 mm/second.  There's no way they print that fast.  So some games must be afoot on that spec.

 

[russel...@gmail.com]

As Jetguy mentioned, companies are being vague, so maybe this is their way of giving you a spec that you can't use to directly compare to anyone else. 

Waiting would seem like the smart thing to do.  However, by the time there are machines in the field with enough experience to form an opinion, there will be new machines on the horizon, and the cycle just starts over.  I'll probably buy either the R2X or CubeX.  I'd be more interested in the QU-BD machines, but I just don't have that much time to tinker. 

Cheers,
Rusty

[Dan Newman]

On 21 Jan 2013 , at 5:32 AM, russel...@gmail.com wrote:

> It seems they're giving volume, not linear speed. It's hard to read, but

> the spec they list is 15 cubic mm, so probably not as slow as it initially
> sounds.

If we assume that the extruded noodle has a 0.5 mm diameter, then 15 mm^3 / s
would correspond to a feedrate of 76.4 mm/s (of extruded noodle)

76.4 mm/s * (pi * (0.5 mm)^2 / 4) = 15.0 mm^3/s

That's certainly not inconceivable as a top feed rate. However, it's also
faster than I've ever seen a commercial FDM system run at. They get good,
repeatable print quality by running slow (below 30 mm/s).

So, a top feedrate corresponding to 15 mm^3/s is not unbelievable.
Nor is a typical feedrate of 15 mm/s unbelievable. However, a top
feedrate of 15 mm/s is suspect, but might cut down on support
calls about surface quality ;)

Dan

P.S. If you have a 0.4 mm diameter orifice and are extruding ABS plastic, then
the output diameter of the extruded noodle will be > 0.4 mm owing to the
die swell of ABS (aka, "extrudate swell"). Now, the CubeX may actually have a
0.5 mm diameter orifice in which case the output diameter of the noodle may be
around 0.55 mm or more. In that case, 15 mm^3/s output would require a
feedrate of around 63 mm/s.

[Dan Newman]

On 21 Jan 2013 , at 6:30 AM, russel...@gmail.com wrote:

> As Jetguy mentioned, companies are being vague, so maybe this is their way
> of giving you a spec that you can't use to directly compare to anyone
> else.

Actually, in the commercial 3D printing industry, it's fairly common to
talk specs in terms of volume -- pricing in terms of volume and print
times in terms of volume. It's us in the DIY industry who are more focused
on feedrate.

Dan

[Clinton Hoines]

Isn't this just a 3Dtouch printer with a cartridge and a frosted case? Looks like it to me, I would think anyone looking at the CubeX can get most of there info/reviews by looking into the 3Dtouch.

 

 

 

Clinton

[Clinton Hoines]

Meant to say it has the same specs and basically the same price so I'm not seeing a big difference on these.

http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/usd/store/bfb-3dtouch-3d-printer-triple-head

 

Clinton

[russel...@gmail.com]

I noticed the 3DTouch this morning, and I'd prefer it due to the non-cartridge approach.  Unfortunately, the prices don't really track with the CubeX.  The single and dual head units are about $1000 more, though the 3 head is only $400 more. 

Rusty

[russel...@gmail.com]

First, to answer my original question (or at least add a different answer), I was told that the R2X comes with a 1 lb roll of red, and natural abs.

Second, I just ordered one :-)

Thanks for all the comments.

Rusty

[Dan Newman]

On 21 Jan 2013 , at 2:21 PM, russel...@gmail.com wrote:

> First, to answer my original question (or at least add a different answer),
> I was told that the R2X comes with a 1 lb roll of red, and natural abs.

Just 1 lbs rolls? Not 1 kg which is what they normally sell? (But clearly
they have 1 lbs rolls as well as that's what the clear PLA was which I
received with a Rep 2.) The Rep 1 dual came with two 1 kg rolls

Single extruder models ship with 1kg of White or Natural ABS, Dual
extruder models ship with an additional 1kg of Black ABS.

But yes, I see that the Rep 2 also indicates just a 1 lbs roll and not
a 1 kg roll.

Dan

[russel...@gmail.com]

The main reason I wanted to know was so I could order a few other rolls at the same time, and make sure I ended up with some PLA and ABS to test.

Cheers,
Rusty

[Jetguy]

Well, you're the test subject now so in 8 long weeks we'll know
something from someone outside of MakerBot what the 2X is like.

On Jan 21, 6:55 pm, russell.du...@gmail.com wrote:
> The main reason I wanted to know was so I could order a few other rolls at
> the same time, and make sure I ended up with some PLA and ABS to test.
>
> Cheers,
> Rusty
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 21, 2013 4:27:17 PM UTC-6, dnewman wrote:
>