Help - Start gcode for Simplify 3D for dual extruding

[Steve Johnstone]

Hi all,

I’m hoping someone can help.

I need to alter the start gcode in Simplify 3D for when I dual extrude.

At the moment only the right extruder is priming before the slow wipe at the beginning of the print. This is fine if you are just using the right extruder but not ideal when you are using both extruders.

Could someone tell me the additional code I need to add to get the left extruder (T1) to prime before the sweep.

I think it need to go somewhere in the highlighted code below.

Thanks, Steve

; **** Replicator 2 start.gcode ****

M103 ; extruder off

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D Creator)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum

G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum

G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5

G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0

G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly

M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

G10 P1 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

G54 ; enable G10 offset

G1 X-5 Y0 Z50 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating

M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)

M6 T0 ; wait for extruder to warm up

G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs

G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

M108 R5.0 ; set extruder speed

M101 ; start extruder

G4 P3500 ; purge nozzle

G1 X0 Y5 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe

M103 ; stop extruder

G1 X5 Y10 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

[Jetguy]

Well, for one, that's Replicator 2 single head gcode so right there is part of the issue.

 **** Replicator 2 start.gcode ****

 

You must use or create the 2X profile. And that is the entire problem I'm still at myself.

[Jetguy]

Again, if this isn't clear, you have MORE problems than just the start.gcode. If that's wrong, then so is the rest of the profile.

You likely don't have the temp setpoints for dual extruders, or even the heated bed.

 

And, it's known there is a quirk in the default profiles. So great thanks to Enginwiz for is profiles, but they are for a Replicator 2 single extruder.

You must in turn, reverse engineer what he changed to make that profile work, then apply those changes to the 2X profile.

 

And in my case, I was running a Replicator Dual (Not the 2X) so then I had to custom edit the 2X profile even further for centering and so on, along with unchecking export usign GPX and then did that step manually with my custom GPX config.

Since I was doing all of this on a 400x400X400 mm build volume bot, none of my code will work for you and will be confusing

 

The goal for them to rlease the next version and pray that they updated the way extruder volume is calculated. I've kind of stopped using it until this happens because I feel tuning and editing efforts are wasted if all new working profiles come out.

Makerware meets my dustrusion needs. Somehow, I don't think right now today that this is going to give you a better print than Makerware and certainly isn't an easier way of going from STL to print.

 

So to recap, Load the 2X profile, examine it's start.gcode ( I copied it to an external word doc when doing this massive edit), also examine the temps tab, and so on.

Maybe screenshot them or also capture them into the word doc. Then you have to take Enginwiz's profile for the Replicator 2 and edit it to more or less match the technical portions of the profile of the 2X (start and end gcode) and the all too important temp tab. I never walked away yet thinking I had a good understanding of how all those temp setpoints work. I mean it looks logical but one time it would work as expected, other times it did not work and GPX gave me warnings.

 

Just saying, it's MORE than just the start.gcode. Add this would be a whole lot easier if you could just start with the right default profile and got correct extrusion.

[Steve Johnstone]

Yeah this code got carried over from Enginewiz's profiles - I had already changed this line to stop the carriage hitting Front Left

G10 P1 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

This is the start code taken from a new clean doc-

; **** Replicator 2X start.gcode ****

M103 ; extruder off

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D Creator)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum

G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum

G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5

G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0

G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly

M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

G10 P1 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

G10 P2 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

G54 ; enable G10 offset

G1 X-5 Y0 Z30 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating

M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)

M6 T0 ; wait for extruder to warm up

G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs

G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

M108 R5.0 ; set extruder speed

M101 ; start extruder

G4 P3500 ; purge nozzle

G1 X0 Y5 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe

M103 ; stop extruder

G1 X5 Y10 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

[Steve Johnstone]

Thanks for the info jetguy, unfortunately Makerware just won't slice my STL correctly.

All the other settings are fine as I have printing with then all day without issues.

My problem when dual extruding is the 2nd extruder does not priming which sometimes mean that the first layer of my wipe wall from said extruder doesn't always stick and causes issues further on down the line.

Thanks anyway

[Jetguy]

Sorry, again, the process I was going through to use it is a bit cumbersome. It all hinges around correct profiles as you are experiencing.

And, I get the feeling there are not a lot of us using it since it is not "free" software.

I really do like it and that's part of the problem, if more people used it, we'd have a bigger pool of folks who already got this all worked out, we'd just hand you a profile and print or it would be built in.

 

If you do get working profiles, please share them. Sorry, I wish  I was more help in this case, I do want to see both of us get this working. I just have to set priorities and right now, software isn't on the list.

[Steve Johnstone]

No worries, I let you know how I get on.

[Wingcommander]

I don't have a 2X, but this will most likely work.

;**** Replicator 2X start.gcode ****

M73 P0 ;start build

M70 P0 ;S3DCreator profile

M103 ;turn extruder off

;**** park extruder ****

G162 X Y F2500 ;home XY axes maximum

M70 P1 ;please wait...

;**** wait for temp ****

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ;lower stepper Vrefs while heating

M6 T1 ;wait for left temp

M6 T0 ;wait for right temp

G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ;set stepper motor Vref to defaults

;**** precision homing ****

G161 Z F1100 ;home Z axis minimum

G92 Z-5 F1200 ;set Z to -5

G1 Z0.0 ;move Z to "0"

G161 Z F100 ;home Z axis minimum slowly

M132 X Y Z A B ;load current position from EPROM for XYZAB axis

;**** relocate zero position ****

G10 P1 X-148 Y-75; set local offset for zero

G54 ; enable G10 offset

;**** pre-prime ****

G1 X250 Y150 Z30 F1200 ;drop bed and initialise XYZ values

G1 X0 Y0 ;move to start position

;**** left extruder ****

T1 ;select left extruder

G1 X-5 Y0 Z0.5 F1200 ;do a slow wipe...

M108 R5.0 ;set extruder to 5 RPM

M101 ;start extruder

G4 P3500 ;pre-prime extruder

G1 X10 Y5 Z0.2 F1100 ;do a slow wipe...

G4 P100 ;anchor

M103 ;stop extruder

G1 Z30 ;...and lift

;**** right extruder ****

T0 ;select right extruder

G1 X-5 Y2 Z0.5 F1200 ;do a slow wipe...

M108 R5.0 ;set extruder to 5 RPM

M101 ;start extruder

G4 P3500 ;pre-prime extruder

G1 X10 Y7 Z0.2 F1100 ;do a slow wipe...

G4 P100 ;anchor

M103 ;stop extruder

M108 R0 ;clear extruder RPM

G1 Z0.5 ;...and lift

M73 P1 

;@body (notify GPX body has started)

;**** GCODE_START ****

[Steve Johnstone]

Thanks for that Wingcommander.

I have manages to get it working a bit like how Makerware does it, but purging 10-20mm from both extrudes at the same time on the build plate, along the X axis.

I would prefer the purge and wipe as it keeps the build plate clear... hopefully your version will do that.

THANKS ever so much for taking time to look at this, I really appreciate it.

I will let you know how I get on.

[Steve Johnstone]

... this is what I came with -

; **** Replicator 2X start.gcode for DUAL extrusion ****

M103 ; extruder off

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D Creator)

M70 P2 (Replicator 2X DUAL)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum

G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum

G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5

G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0

G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly

M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

G10 P1 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

G10 P2 X-125 Y-75 ; set local offset for Creator

G54 ; enable G10 offset

G1 X-5 Y0 Z30 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating

M70 P1 (Priming DUAL nozzles...)

M6 T0 ; wait for RIGHT extruder to warm up

M6 T1 ; wait for LEFT extruder to warm up

G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs

G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

M108 T0 R5.0 ; set RIGHT extruder speed

M108 T1 R5.0 ; set LEFT extruder speed

M101 T0 ; start RIGHT extruder

M101 T1 ; start LEFT extruder

G4 P3500 ; purge timer Extrude RIGHT and LEFT for 3.5secs

M103 T0 ; stop RIGHT extruder

M103 T1 ; stop LEFT extruder

G1 X-5 Y0 Z0.4 ; Hold extruder position for DUAL purge

G1 X10 Y0 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe

G1 X10 Y10 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

[Steve Johnstone]

Ok I have just given Wincommanders ago and had to stop it at just into the start as some of coordinates were off and there a bit of banging into the front left side... LOL

I'm going to try my beginning with wincommanders end (purge) section.

[Jetguy]

Hey, but here is the million dollar question, do we have working end code that positively shuts off the heaters?

I just remember this coming up in the discussions at one point of heaters getting left on by bad code.

 

I know Sailfish firmware includes some level of safety on this and in thoery will shut down the heaters as an absolute last resort on a timeout, but that's less than ideal and for those running OEM firmware- well best of luck to you.

Somehow, I don't think the "Handyman's Secret Weapon" is going to solve this problem.

[Dan Newman]

On 20 Nov 2013 , at 8:27 AM, Steve Johnstone wrote:

> Ok I have just given Wincommanders ago and had to stop it at just into the
> start as some of coordinates were off and there a bit of banging into the
> front left side... LOL

The parking position for a 2X is different than for a 2: that's likely your
issue as Wingcommander's profiles were for a 2 and not a 2X. When the 2
first came out and no one new about the 2X, we all started doing stuff using
the parking position which MBI used for the 2. Then the 2X came out and
that parking position maybe worked (was tight for some people and if the
left extruder was initially the active one it worked, I believe. [I don't
have a 2X either]).

Dan

[Dan Newman]

On 20 Nov 2013 , at 8:27 AM, Jetguy wrote:

> Hey, but here is the million dollar question, do we have working end code
> that positively shuts off the heaters?

Setting the temps to 0 will positively do it as long as you are running Sailfish
7.5 or later and a RepG or MakerWare which pays attention to s3g comms errors.
(Recall a use case came up where lack of error responses combined with certain
gcode commands was causing a problem with that final temp command.) As far as
I can tell, MBI has yet to restore generation of s3g comms error responses in
their firmware.

Second, there is the 30 minute timer which will turn the heaters off.

If you're building from SD card, then the heaters are always turned off at the
end. (This is an oddity in MBI's firmware and Sailfish by extension: build
over USB and the heaters are not unconditionally turned off at the end; build
from SD card, even if initiated over USB, and the heaters are unconditionally
turned off at the end.) Caveat: I see that the code will return before
shutting the heaters off if there is an error mid-build with the SD card
reading. That's in MBI's firmware and Sailfish. Well, the 30 minute timer
will catch that but I'm going to fix it in Sailfish.

Dan

[Dan Newman]

Sorry: misread the code. (Am working from a crippled laptop.) Nothing
unconditionally turns off the heaters immediately at the end of a build: not
from SD nor from USB. So, it's either an explicit command near the end of
the gcode or the 30 minute timer.

Dan

[Steve Johnstone]

Jetguy & Dan, thanks for the heads up ref shutting the heaters down. I'm pretty sure they do, but I will check.

PS - I'm Sailfish and always print off the SD card.

[Jetguy]

Just anyone following this thread, I could see a person getting excited on a test print seeing the start .gcode work and be so focused on making that work, the end code from the Rep2 gets left in and either fails to turn off both heaters or the heated bed. And, because it's at the end of a print, the user may walk away thinking it all goes to plan only to come back and find a disaster.

 

All I'm trying to say is to be extra careful when hand editing any profile or gcode and understand both the startup and shutdown sequences. If you edit one side of it (normally the start.gcode is what gets touched the most) don't just run a print job without testing the end.gcode to ensure you go back to a safe state.

 

I know that you know that, it's just for the new guys who may not be as familiar.

[Steve Johnstone]

Good point - also please don't try these profiles as they are not finished. I will put them on Thingiverse as soon as I'm happy they work etc.

I will test the end shutdown heater issue in the morning to see where we stand with that.

[Steve Johnstone]

Ok a quick video of the profile I was working on this morning - http://youtu.be/QVd-sXauU64

I'm really close with get Wingcomander to work - Using the beginning of mine and then just Wingcommanders code for purge and sweep. The left (T1) works a treat, but the Right extruder messes up. I will shoot video in the morning for Wingcomander ... so close.

The profile in the video is working so I will use it in the meantime.

[JMT]

Hey Steve,
Did you manage to create a successful profile for dual extrusion on the 2X?
I am having issues with dual extrusion myself and would love to give your profile a go.

My issue is the left and right extruders trying to print on the exact same layer. I have been exchanging email with Clayton over at Simplify3D but it's not resolved yet.
Attached is a same STL file printed via MakerWare and S3D.
I am not looking to troubleshoot this with you guys, just trying to give your factory file a go and post the result. I'll keep the group posted if Clayton share anything relevant.

Thanks!

Jean-Michel

[Scottbee]

One thing that I havve discovered is that MakerWare will subtract the model for the right extruder from the model for the left extruder (poor-mans Boolean) if the models aren't too complex (I use this "feature" often)

Based on my very limited testing, S3D will not do this and you need to do the subtraction before introducing the models to the slicer.

[JMT]

I did not even realize MakerWare had the ability to do such a thing, I'll have to look more into it. Thanks for the tip!
Not knowing that, I did the boolean work in my CAD package and imported the two STL in S3D and assigned each to a separate extruder. I went over the settings with Clayton and everything looks fine.
I don't see the extrusion error when playing back the g.code file so it may be a problem in the conversion from g.code to x3g.

Here is something that Clayton did mention as far as fine tuning which could be beneficial to other S3D users:
"Unfortunately, white plastic really loves to grab onto any colored plastic that might be nearby.  But this problem can be greatly agitated by things like over-extrusion or excessive temperatures.  

A good thing to try first would be to reduce your extrusion multiplier by 0.05 so that we can see if the problem is related to over extrusion.  After that, I might also try a slightly lower temperature for the extruders to see if that can help the bleeding between regions."

Cheers,
Jean-Michel

[Scottbee]

Do you have any toolchange gcode in there?  I know that Makerware does a huge retraction when doing a tool change.  I don't know if S3D will do that without you explicitly creating a toolchange gcode.  This is an area in S3D that I am completely ignorant.

[JMT]

I haven't messed with the gcode enough myself to answer that question. What I did notice is that S3D creates a temp folder with two separate gcode files (one of each extruder) and also generate a single one for the overall build, which I am assume combine the two, prior to generating the x3g.
If anyone has had success with dual extrusion on the 2x via S3D I'd love to get a copy of their factory file to try.

[Steve Johnstone]

Hi Jean-Michel,

I have been doing loads for dual printing with S3D of late. Could you post you stl. for me to have a look at.

Cheers, Steve

[JMT]

Here are the STLs that make up the part that I took a photo of earlier.
I must have forgotten to check the "Do It Right" button ;)

BTW, I just noticed your thin wall RC air duct photos. Very impressive print quality!
Thanks for giving this a shot!

Jean-Michel

[Steve Johnstone]

Hi JMT,

Just to let you know that I haven't forgotten about these. I'm hoping to have some free time on Friday to have a look at it

Cheers, Steve

[JMT]

Ha! no worries. I've been swamped with work on my end as well (among other things printing a lot of ABS parts for a client, which are too small to print correctly on their $30k dimension machine but work fine on the Replicator 2x via S3D ;)
Clayton has continued to argue that my problem is caused by the black extruder oozing over the clear ABS even after I showed him the photo attached of a clear part printed along side a dual color one. I'll try his recommended extra retraction during tool change to prove my point that this isn't the issue and get back to him.
Looking forward to see what you find out on your end.

[Raymond Pierson]

Hello,   

Im kinda new to Simplify 3d and up until 40 minutes ago thought i had managed to have it working perfectly right up until i tried to print a 20mm test box with the LEFT extruder.  Things started normally with all the axis homing and then the extruder carriage moving to the front right hand corner and waited for the extruder and build plate to come up to temp.  Then it moved the left extruder tip to about 10mm inboard on the build plate and began a purge with a slow wipe.  However instead of moving inwards, like it had done when printing with right extruder it moved to the right and crashed the carriage into the x endstop, the belt skipped a few times then it began printing normally except for the fact that the print was not centered on the x-axis, due the belt skipping.  

I hunted through the start code both the left and right extruder and could not find anything that would explain this.  Also, when i compared the start code for the right extruder to the left extruder the only difference i found was theT1 vs T0 calls, everything else was extactly the same, which struck me as a little odd.

here is my left extruders start code:

; **** Replicator 1 dual start.gcode Left****

M103 ; extruder off

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum

G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum

G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5

G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0

G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly

M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

M135 T1 ; load left extruder offsets

G1 X105 Y-70 Z30 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating

M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)

M6 T1 ; wait for left extruder to warm up

G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs

G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

M108 R5.0 ; set extruder speed

M101 ; start extruder

G4 P3500 ; purge nozzle

G1 X100 Y-65 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe

M103 ; stop extruder

G1 X95 Y-60 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated!!!

Ray

[Joseph Chiu]

Well, that's easy to prove by printing twice, once with the left unloaded, and again with the right unloaded...

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[Joseph Chiu]

p.s. this 4-extruder gag on the Hyrel, as well as some of the more interesting overlapping ditto-prints that some of us have encountered look like that picture, too.  It sometimes seems like two different extrusions will occupy the same space at the same time...

[Joseph Chiu]

Ooops, forgot the url... http://youtu.be/xQFacnpzmv0

[Steve Johnstone]

Hi JMT,

Sorry it’s taken me so long to get around to having a look at this. I spent about an hour working with it last night and managed to get a decent print. This was just a quick and dirty crack at it and there is plenty of room for tweaking.

Would you like me to post the factory file here for you to have a look at or I could email it to you?

I would also be happy to do a video and take you through my workflow if you think that would help.

Cheers, Steve

[JMT]

Feel free to post the factory file on this thread so it can help others with the same issue.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to give it a go!
The quality already looks much better than the MakerWare version even in your "un-tweaked" print. Definitely the right place to start.
I'll compare your factory file to mine and highlight the differences so we can all learn what cause S3D to create the overlapping layer error (if it indeed reside within S3D and not in GPX or firmware).

JMT

[Steve Johnstone]

Here you go - https://www.yousendit.com/download/elNMV0o1Qk41aWJtcXRVag

Good luck