3M Blue painters tape is Rubbish

[whpthomas]

I finally got around to getting some 3M blue painters tap at the local hardware and have had no end of trouble printing with it. My experience so far...

First print after laying down fresh tape - nothing will stick. So I wiped it down with mentholated spirits, the prints stick but are hard to pull off and damage the tape when removed. Fresh tape every print? New tape - wiped down with a little less metho - print sticks but is inconsistent. After half a day stuffing around in to the bin it goes.

Back to printing straight on the acrylic build plate - polished with a paper towel and a light dab of extra-virgin olive oil, the PLA sticks evenly and snaps off hassle free. This is my best approach and I have printed dozens of parts this way, the filament bonds to the surface, and the parts snap off easily after printing - but it is a fine art - too much oil and you will have problems, but nothing like the problems I have had with the 3M tape.

[Avandss]

you know its crazy how MBI does not sell the tape the bot comes with!!

it makes no sense what so ever

[Ryan Gerrish]

I've also had zero luck getting the PLA to stick to the painters tape. My Acrylic plate works awesomely. About to try the glass plate...

[whpthomas]

My Replcator 2 didn't come with the blue tape, so I have never tried the original stuff - so my only experience is with this roll of 3M blue tape - no good at all.

[notstarman]

I have found that scotch blue #2093el works well after just a light
rub with rubbing alcohol.

[Joseph Chiu]

I don't know about the Acrylic Build Plate, but on my Thing-O-Matic, I just slap on blue tape as if it's a disposable --  I often don't bother to tape the entire platform -- if I know my prints are small enough to fit on one 2" wide strip, I'll just lay one strip in the middle.    By playing with the initial elevation and feed rate, you can help adjust the amount of "grab" you create again the tape.  I've been printing a lot during the past few days with PLA, and it definitely has no problems sticking as long as I go slow enough on the first layer (by adjusting the first layer feed rate and first layer flow rate).   

[Big-E]

Sorry to hear you're having issues using blue painters tape.

I always print with 3M blue painters tape, the cheapest and widest I can find. the premium tape seems to work better, but other brands don't seem to work as well.

I always tape the bed, and put strips down, one at a time. I line up each piece to the previous strip's edge, and lay it down as smooth as I can. if I screw up, I carefully peel it back, reposition, and re-apply. It takes a couple minutes to do it properly. At the and of each strip, I fold about 1/4" over and stick it back to the tape to make a small tab. the remainder of the tape will be wrapped around the edge and stuck to the bottom of the plate's edge, so I can easily peel off the tape when I need to reapply it.

Once the printing surface has been taped up nicely, I take a wide plastic putty scraper and run it across the taped surface to ensure it's adhered properly, and to make the surface smooth and free of air bubbles under the tape.

I then re-level the bed, with the tape on. it does add a little thickness to the build surface, and since most people level the bed within the thickness of a sheet of paper, it's important to level the bed with the tape on it. I find the print sticks to the blue tape well, but my pieces are easier to remove than when they are on the raw acrylic.

If, and only if, my prints don't stick well, I wipe down the tape with a piece of paper towel and some rubbing alcohol. then things stick fine. For stubborn prints, I use the same plastic scraper I use to smooth the tape to help remove the print. in a pinch, the acrylic plate can be flexed on your thigh to help break the print loose,

If you still have problems getting something to stick to the tape, a light misting of cheap hairspray (like aqua-net) will help it stick.

If you are tearing the tape when removing the print, or it's refusing to come loose without a lot of effort, your nozzle is too close to the bed. tighten your leveling screws a hair (like 1 or 2mm is all you need to turn them)

I always print with tape, and it works better than the uncovered plate. I haven't printed without tape since the day I got my machine, when I printed the nut and bolt. this is just from my experience, however. maybe it's other factors in your case (environmental things like temperature and humidity perhaps)

[Jetguy]

I love how somebody who has little to no experience printing is
suddenly an expert and says because they cannot get a brand X tape to
work, it MUST be the tape, because it couldn't be them or their
machine.

It's one thing to post a question here in the forum, but to just say
something sucks outright with no solution is not exactly the best way
to get people to want to help you.

99.9 percent of the time, non-sticking issues are due to the first
layer nozzle height problems. There are lots of ways for that to
occur, but they all end in the same result of the print no sticking
and thus being ruined.

Tramming or leveling the bed is the most important thing to get right
first, then actually adjusting the entire first layer height once the
bed is trammed. If you won;t take the time to do this, no tape or
other trick is going to get your machine to print.

Point being, a lot of they experience users are leaving this forum
because this is how the new guys ask questions. Maybe take a second,
realize guys have been doing this for a long time and masking tape
works fine with PLA. Brand is not a key point here. Just because it
doesn't work of you usually indicates another problem altogether, not
the tape as being a root cause for your problems. Plus, maybe using
the search function and read a little while before you post might be
good advice for the new guys.

[Michael Masterson]

Nicely put.  I have no issues with the painters tape.  I will give the suggestion of lightly sanding the tape before your first print.  I used 400 sandpaper to do it.  Just a few rubs across the platform and then wiped it down with a slightly damp rag.

[Dan Newman]

On 29 Dec 2012 , at 10:02 AM, Michael Masterson wrote:

> I will give the
> suggestion of lightly sanding the tape before your first print. I used 400
> sandpaper to do it. Just a few rubs across the platform and then wiped it
> down with a slightly damp rag.

That's interesting. Obviously the slightly damp rag acts like a tack cloth
and removes dust and debris. But do you have any sense as to whether some
moisture is absorbed into the tape causing it to make the surface just a
little more uneven? Just curious.

Dan

[whpthomas]

Jet guy: well said - I probably needed to be put in my place for being so brash - my apology for offending anyone.

Firstly let me say that the most valued members in this forum are those who are willing to experiment and report back regularly, as well as helping others with that hard earned experience - jetguy does that in spades - so I graciously tip my hat to you sir and hope you will stick around - despite the changing times and rampaging hoard of new rep 2 owners like me.

With regards to experience of members and change - I think that the days of 3d printing being the exclusive domain of hackers is coming to an end. Changes are afoot and the new bread of Makerbot operators are going to be completely different. While this may be inevitable, whether it is a bad thing depends on your perspective. A lot of these new operators will bring with them a wealth of experience form outside this traditional hacker space. I for one have been doing 3d computer aided design since the mid 80's. I design products for a living and routinely fabricate prototypes in steel to 0.1 mm tolerances for weldmesh and 0.01 mm for machining. I am sure there are many others here who are new to 3d printing who also have years of experience in design, prototyping and fabrication processes.

Finally my comments about blue tape come form a sense of frustration that new replicator 2 owners get the impression form this group that their machines have design defects that warrant upgrading to a glass build plate (which requires the use of blue tape) and upgrading the extruder - without which quality prints are not possible. With regards to my experience with my machine I disagree. The delron plunger once bedded in and adjusted works just fine and the acrylic build plate is giving a glassy surface finish on the base layer. All of the extruded problems I have experienced come from poor software configuration - in particular the fact that the skeinforge settings in makerware and replicatorg have a packing density of 0.85 which from tests on 11 different rolls of filament is clearly wrong - it should be at least 0.97 or 1. This causes too much flow, back pressure etc. causing the nozzle to clog. In my view its a software problem not a hardware problem - glass plates and blue tape is not going to fix this.

There is also a lot of critics about the build plate not being absolutely flat - but neither are the platform arms particularly rigid - the plate bounces around during builds which one would expect to effect the surface finish of tall objects. However the issue is what the printed parts are like - not the build platform itself. The parts tend to pull in slightly at the top, so once removed form a slightly concave platform tend to straighten out. Not sure if this was the intention but it helps when mating large parts together. The real point is weather you can get an even first layer and my experiments to date demonstrate you can - maybe other build plates are more warped than mine - but being slightly warped is not a good reason to ditch the plate - the printed results are what matters.

[Big-E]

I guess I should add the following to my prior post.

1) I haven't been 3D printing for too long, but what I know comes from my recent experiences, talking to others who have been doing it longer, as well as other experiences that apply (I've been fabricating for ages, just not with 3D printers, it's a new tool in my arsenal)

2) I wipe down my tape with alcohol to remove PLA residue, dust, and oils left behind from touching the build plate, 99% of the time, if my bed is level, and prints aren't sticking, a quick wipe down with alcohol fixes the problem. It's okay if some blue coloring comes off on your rag/paper towel, but once the tape begins to fade or look fuzzy, you can either give a light misting of hairspray to help it stick, or replace the tape. Usually when the tape degrades that much, it may tear, so I've found you'll need to replace it anyway.

Cheaper tape does work, but it may not adhere to the bed as well. The stigma of cheap tape comes from painting, where paint will wick under the tape line with the cheap stuff; This shouldn't be an issue with 3D printers though. I will avoid the very cheap knock-offs because they don't stick very well to the bed, nothing to do with the actual print adhesion. I have tried a pale green painters tape from my local paint shop, and it seems to work very well. I usually stick with 3M because it's good quality, sticks well to the bed, and I can usually get it cheap (My brother works in auto body, and he gets it in bulk).

3) I've always been a self-taught person. Usually, if I need to learn every aspect of something from third parties, I shouldn't be doing it in the first place (like open-heart surgery, I'd never even dare to attempt it). I always like taking advantage of the experience of others when it comes to improving the end result, however. That's why I usually experiment until I get the desired outcome, nothing like hands-on experience to get intimate with the process. It's like when I was learning to work with foam latex. there's a lot of trial and error (oven temps, mixing ratios, curing times, etc.) and it's why most pros who work with it every day still keep a log book, where they write everything down, so they can go back and see what works, and what doesn't. I do the same with my Rep2, I log everything I do in a notebook, including the outcome of a print job. This way, in the future, I'll know what works, what doesn't, and I'll have notes to refer to if something goes awry. I think everyone should keep a notebook by their printer for this purpose, if for nothing else than to know what temperature works with what color or brand of PLA on their setup.