Clarification: Oiling Your Filament

[Michael Peters]

Hello all,

I've been lurking and learning on this group for quite a while. Big thanks to everyone, esp.Wing Commander/whpthomas - your videos and tips have shaved months of frustration off my learning curve - so on behalf of the silent majority, allow me to express my appreciation. I'm a teacher, and I've adopted my school's Rep2, since no one else wanted to step up.

Unlike some folks, it seems, I have had a pretty good experience so far with MBI support. I was having lots of flaky, stringy filament issues - MBI immediately sent me the spring-loaded block upgrade, before I even asked for it, or knew how important it was. Should it be shipped installed? Probably - but I'm guessing the customer service guy doesn't make that call, so I'll cut him some slack.

ANYWAYS ... The new block definitely helped, but I am still getting phantom layers pretty regularly.  So, just in the last couple days I have focused on the "magic bullet" of adding a little canola to the filament.  And, surprise-surprise, I have now managed a couple successful prints in a row!  Which is a minor miracle!

I just want to clarify what the "best practice" is for using oil - quantity, frequency, etc.

Type - Canola seems to be the peoples choice - but the important property is the burn/smoke temperature, right? So any high-temp. friendly veg. oil ought to do the job?

Quantity - I dabbed a pinky in oil, slipped the guide tube off and basically ran my fingers along the first 10-15 cm of filament, leaving a slight "film" of oil on the filament. Definitely not enough to collect or drip - barely enough to see, other than the "glisten".  Does this seem correct? I have also read that people go further - oiling the filament on the spool, or adding enough up top for a "drip" of oil to make its way into the extruder mechanism.

Frequency - I have read a couple of different things on this. Some people seem to suggest oiling their filament with every print. Others seem to suggest that with the upgraded block, you should only need to add  a few drops every once in a while.  Some people suggest stopping prints when you hear a click, and adding more.  What is the conventional wisdom?  It would seem to me that at a certain point, too much would be a very bad thing.

Anything else? Does using oil add any special cleaning or maintenance steps I should think about?

Many thanks again!

Mike

[Ximfinity]

I have never needed or used oil in any my prints ona  rep2.   After the aluminum extruder upgrade and purchasing a good supplier's filament (Toybuilderlabs) i have not had any problems, aside from the normal adjustments and calibrations.  I also print onto standard blue painters tape.

I would be curious how much other have experimented with oils and what sort of effect they can have in the long term, I would be concened about using too much of any lubricants in such a high temperature environment as in my experiences those things tent to build up over time into a nice black slime. 

[Wingcommander]

Hi Mike,

Glad you found the videos helpful.

At the time I was applying a bit of Olive Oil, we still had the older style Delrin plunger extruders and were experimenting in the development of the printed spring tension extruder, and applying a bit of oil on the filament was helpful.

These days I don't apply Olive Oil on my filament at all, but I also have a much better extruder http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:59129

So to answer your question, if you are going to apply some vegtable oil, use extra light (NOT cold pressed) because you want a highly refined oil with a high smoke point, so it won't break down at the temperatures we print at - which will lead to clogs. Problem is that extra virgin and cold pressing is popular now in salad oils, so it can be harder to find highly refined oils.

Another problem is that if you print any exotic filaments like Nylon that have to be printed above 230c and you have any oil residue in you heat chamber, it will break down and will lead to clogs which will need to be cleared http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:56597

Obviously I have been there and done all that. So rather than using oil, these days I would advise you focus on getting your extruder and nozzle working reliably. Make sure your nozzle is clear and your extruder has enough tension to crank out plastic without skipping. You also need to make sure your build plate is level and the gap just right, so that there is not too much back pressure in subsequent layers, which can cause a weak extruder or blocked nozzle to fail higher up in the print. If you need an upgrade, both Karas Customs and dheadrick have excellent extruder upgraqdes.

[David Clunie]

Totally worth watching Wingcommanders videos for both Rep2 and Rep2x users.

If interested and still using oil for PLA here is a list of oils and their smoke points(which you want a higher smokepoint than the temp you're printing at):

200's
225 F: Canola Oil, Unrefined
     : Flaxseed Oil, Unrefined
     : Safflower Oil, Unrefined
     : Sunflower Oil, Unrefined
300's
320 F: Corn Oil, Unrefined
     : High-Oleic Sunflower Oil,
       Unrefined
     : Olive Oil, Unrefined
     : Peanut Oil, Unrefined
     : Safflower Oil, Semi-Refined
     : Soy Oil, Unrefined
     : Walnut Oil, Unrefined

325 F: Shortening, Emulsified
       Vegetable†

330 F: Hemp Seed Oil¥¥

350 F: Butter (Good Eats)
     : Canola Oil, Semi-Refined
     : Coconut Oil†
     : Sesame Oil, Unrefined
     : Soy Oil, Semi-Refined
356-370 F: Vegetable Shortening
361-401 F: Lard
375 F: Olive Oil (Good Eats)
389 F: Macadamia Nut Oil††
400's
400 F: Canola Oil, Refined
     : Walnut Oil, Semi-Refined
406 F: Olive Oil, Extra Virgin*
410 F: Corn Oil (Good Eats)
     : Sesame Oil**
420 F: Cottonseed Oil†
     : Grapeseed Oil¥
     : Olive Oil, Virgin**
430 F: Almond Oil***
     : Hazelnut Oil***
435 F: Canola Oil (Good Eats)
438 F: Olive Oil*
     : Rapeseed Oil***
440 F: Peanut Oil†
     : Sunflower Oil†
450 F: Corn Oil, Refined
     : High-Oleic Sunflower Oil,
       Refined
     : Peanut Oil, Refined
       (Good Eats)
     : Safflower Oil, Ref.
       (Good Eats)
     : Sesame Oil, Semi-Refined
     : Soy Oil, Refined
     : Sunflower Oil, Semi-Refined
460 F: Olive Pomace Oil**
468 F: Olive Oil, Extra Light*
485 F: Grapeseed Oil**
495 F: Soy Bean Oil†
500's
510 F: Safflower Oil†
520 F: Avocado Oil, Refined

[Jamesarm97]

Jetguy recently had a bad string of jamming filament and finally tried the oil trick and it worked.

[Jetguy]

I was never going to admit to that in public!!!!

 

Just kidding, I wanted to really see the long term effects before I posted wild answers and theories. Previously I never ever would tell anyone to use it. After a few weeks of frustration with some large prints and rebuilding my hot end, swapping nozzles, and generally using every bit of extruder knowledge I ever gained, I tried about 2 drops as a last ditch effort knowing I could just rebuild the entire hotend again if I saw any ill effects.

The bottom line is it went from not working to working.

 

Now, for the voodoo theory portion. What I was seeing is that the filament before would get a very hard but semi porous end while printing from lots of retractions. My theory is that the retraction creates these hardened voids right at the tip and due to the fact we heat the nozzle but need the center of the filament to melt as well, this porous structure prevent the heat from melting the center and results in a jam. The nozzle isn't clogged, its just a process that is happening that radically changes the thermal function inside the nozzle hotend space. I believe that the oil provides a conduction path not normally present. I also believe density of the molten filament is greater than the oil thus making the oil float on top and not exit the nozzle. The same conduction lubricates and keeps the filament from bonding in the cool area above the thin section of the thermal barrier tube.

 

So, again, I'm not going to tell users to try this as a first step. Certainly there is concern of contaminating the print, your nozzle system, and if anything, oil attracts dirt. I'm using this as a last resort when all other methods have failed and I have enough spare parts on hand untouched with oil I can rebuild. Not everyone is in that situation. I'm not implying it would ruin the parts, they are almost all metal, and nothing a bath in brake cleaner wouldn't remove. But that same time, I can take my extruder apart, replace every part in 10 minutes from the spares pile with my eyes closed. Not everyone has the experience and skills, let alone the spare parts on hand.

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 7:43:22 PM UTC-4, Jamesarm97 wrote:

[Jetguy]

Again, I cannot nail down the how or why. My Replicator 1 was the rock of stability when it comes to working extruders. It simply never had a problem. The new Ulti-Replicator is highly experimental but the extruder is entirely based on Replicator 1 dual since it worked so well for me. Obviously, with the size of prints I'm doing, ABS and most other print materials simply have too much shrinkage and I must use PLA. The thing is, PLA can come in so many cool colors, in particular  the translucents. So  I have so many rolls of filament from just about every supplier out there. The problem is that sometimes, you need a specific color and I was trying a no-name brand from Amazon of a very dark blue. We know different filaments react in different ways due to how the pigments change the thermal properties. But what I saw was this killed every printer I put it into and then further killed those extruders with even other filaments. I'm not going to single out this filament and say it's bad, because it's not, I just need to better understand the how behind the problem before I single things out.

 

But, I had seen issues even at Maker Faire with the bot that on a long print, I went to change colors and had a situation where I got into an air print because the extruder stopped. And, that was a mix of various filaments.

What I'm saying is, there are a lot of variables I'm trying to grasp. The one thing I haven't done is touch, change, or alter in even the slightest way the extruders on the Replicator 1 dual. It's basically my baseline. With that being said, I expect to be able to run any filament through that system, change at any time and so far never an issue. But recently, filament that did work fine now have presented problems.

At the same time, I have introduced another variable and that is the slicer. Previously I exclusively used Replicator-G 40R22 Sailfish.

Due to large models choking badly with the slicer, the only option was alternate slicers so I have been trying Makerware and Simplify 3D Creator.

 

So again, I'm in a situation where I had what I believed was ideal theories on extruders, temperatures, filament, and setup, that something has changed in the last month and now I have problems and its not just one machine. I'm still not a fan of using oil, only because the list of bad effects seems to outweigh using it in all but extreme failure, when nothing else works. Because oil attracts dust and dirt, it most certainly could cause problems long term and result in nozzle clogs. It could attract dirt to the bearing idler and filament drive and generally make a mess there too. I'm at an point that until I can get more Pause-Stop (AKA P-Stop) hardware implemented to detect filament slippage at the extruder, this is the only solution for these long 30-40+ hour prints to ensure no failure. So At best, I've got maybe 40 hours total time using this experimental method, and because I feel I understand the possible downsides and I am prepared to deal with them it's acceptable until I find a better answer. I also know this will require more maintenance of the entire extruder, huge attention to detail keeping filament cleaned with a sponge system to reduce or eliminate dust that may rapidly contaminate with the oil. That said, even normally that stuff is good prevention but it goes from a good idea to being required IMO.

[Jetguy]

Let me also add some possibly non-obvious thoughts.

People in general, and especially beginners have a hard enough time trying to learn the ideal first layer height, tramming the bed to match the nozzle path (AKA leveling), build surface preparation, temperatures, and even settings that can make or break first layer sticking. This is a non-trivial learning experience. If nothing else, the build surface must be completely free of even the slightest dust, moisture, fingerprints, basically anything that could keep first layer from bonding to the surface.

 

So what should be obvious is that even a micro drop of oil could take the build surface from working and first layer sticking, to a nightmare of trying to print. Worse is the fact oil could soak into the build surface material and with a heated bed, this begins to be real problem. The only way you are going to get the oil out is a solvent or heat and real detergent like Dawn dish soap. Even then, the best known solvent is acetone and it's going to take several times to soak with acetone, wipe off with a paper towel, then re-wipe with acetone, and dry it again to float the oil from the pores and lift it away into the paper towel. Then, let's say it's glass, then re-apply all new hairspray since the oil cleaning process would have removed any and all previous layers. Heaven forbid you have Kapton tape and then worse, a possible seam. That might require removal and cleaning before applying an expensive new layer of Kapton. Just one more thing for the FNG (freaking new guy/gal) to deal with.

 

This is just another reason why I don't recommend this for new users and even veterans unless you are prepared to troubleshoot and deal with the possible side affects caused by the use of oil near the bot.

OBTW, this also applies to lubricating the rods. Something us Replicator 1 owners don't ever have to do because we have sealed linear ball bearings!!!!

 

Oil might help with the extruder, but it might create 10 more problems you didn't have before.

[Steve Johnstone]

As always Jetguy, thanks for your detailed explanation on this.

[Michael Peters]

Thanks for the great, detailed answers. I am also using a range of Amazon-ordered filaments, so it has occured to me that the filament itself, or at least dialing in the correct settings may be the issue.

A couple drops of oil seems to be the "magic bullet" for me, but reading your responses makes me think that maybe it is just covering up other novice mistakes I might be making. I'm going to go back to the drawing board, focus on  keeping a clean and clear nozzle and use some of the advanced leveling techniques that Wingcommander and others have suggested.

Thanks again!