Makerbot 5th Gen Quality Tips

[Harrison Lonczynski]

Hey all! Now, I know the hate towards the 5th gen Makerbots, unfortunately, mine is owned by my employer and I've been tasked to make it print nicely (haha). I can't do any modifications for the previous stated reason, and besides, we still have the MakerCare. Just wondering if you've got any tips on getting a bit better quality. I've tried:

1) raising the temp to 218C

2) extremely small layer heights (.08mm)

3) incredibly slow print speeds (50mm/sec)

4) 3 shells

Nothing seems to be really helping. I've attached pictures of what I'm trying to print and what I get. We printed a small version of the project and then a larger, and honestly, it just looks like it scales up the crappiness. I know it's probably a lost hope, and I know there isn't a magical setting that I can just turn on or off and get better results, but I'd just like see what anybody else has tried. Is it because I'm using the Makerbot Desktop software? I know of Slic3r and the other one (don't remember the name right now, the one that costs money), but I have yet to try them.

As I was watching this most recent print (took 26 hours) and I noticed that the printer tries to print the details as quickly as the infill, therefore missing out on stuff. Can I change the speed at which it prints at different points? Another thing that I also noticed is that when the printer reached the point of printing the surfaces that I wanted in high quality, instead of printing a solid surface over the infill pattern, it just started printing the detail as bridges. Can I change it to do so? I printed with an infill of 50% just to see if it helped but I don't think it did. I guess aside from any tips you have, can you:

A) Print at 2 different speeds (at layer 200 and up print at 50mm/sec)?

B) Have the infill print a solid layer before printing a more detailed sections.

Sorry if this is a lot to ask in one post, just looking for some help and trying to not be vague, give you all the info. 

[Rich Webb]

Some of the crappiness is due to the shallow angles. There's just so much a slicer can do given fixed layer heights. What you can try is, perhaps, rotating the models 90-deg and printing them on end (the short end) so that the shallow angles become perimeters. To avoid using supports, maybe split the pieces in two and rotate the pieces in opposite directions, at least for the concave model. Or, split both and minimize the supports needed for the pegs.

[Harrison Lonczynski]

The only thing about that would be the need for supports. the supports look so bad and I never seem to be able to clean them off very nicely (to please my boss anyways). I know what you mean though, I may try it just for the sake of trying. Thanks!

[Joseph Chiu (Toybuilder)]

Sometimes, FDM/FFF is not the right technology...  I think this is one of those applications where Objet prints make the most sense...

[JF Kansas]

It would help if the extrusion settings weren't off out in left field... FDM is capable of 20x better than that even at 150 micron layers versus 80. 

[Harrison Lonczynski]

Kansas, am I trying to print in too high of settings? Like if I kick up the speed and the layer height, would that help?

[Ryan Carlyle]

Tilt each side up 45 degrees "on edge" and put the supports on the flat underside that currently sits on the bed. You'll get vastly better surface finish in the key mold areas, without needing any supports except the flat bottom (which can be sanded down if you want).

[Harrison Lonczynski]

Thanks for this, I'll try it next

[JF Kansas]

Really wouldn't go much under 150 micron. Extrusion volume gets more and more critical the closer the nozzle gets to the surface. No, you don't want to speed anything up. Also dig into your config files and see what the feedstock multiplier is. You won't see it in the profile editor, you will have to look for it in the .json config file. If it is .93 or something, bump it to 1.1 or 1.15 and see how the surfaces come out. 

[Harrison Lonczynski]

The feedstock multiplier is currently set to 1.0. What exactly does that do?

[JF Kansas]

It adjust the amount of filament output, essentially a calibration tool.  In Makerware a higher number means less filament. In Simplify3D a higher number means more filament pulled in to be extruded. 

[Jetguy]

http://www.sailfishfirmware.com/doc/tuning-slicer-calibration.html#x27-670005.1

To get top quality prints, you will need to invest some time in calibrating your slicing profiles to suit both your printer and choice of filaments. Fortunately, the process (presented in Section 5.1.4) is simple and straightforward, though it does require a basic understanding of your slicing software.

5.1.1 Filament Diameter

The need to measure your filament diameter before preparing a model for printing cannot be stressed enough. It is important that you have use of a caliper with which to measure the diameter of your filament.¹ Filament sold as 1.75 mm filament may in fact be 1.68 or 1.85 mm in diameter. However, when preparing models for printing, especially large models, it is critical that the slicing process know the actual diameter of the filament. Otherwise too much or too little filament will be extruded, as the slicer determines the amount of filament needed based upon the expected volume per millimeter of raw input filament. If the actual diameter is larger than expected, too much plastic will be extruded and “over-extrusion” results. And, if the diameter is smaller than expected, too little plastic will be extruded and “under-extrusion” results.

5.1.4 Calibration Box

To achieve quality prints, start by ensuring that you can print a decent calibration “box” whose top is nice and flat. Producing a respectable box involves calibrating a slicing profile to your printer and choice of filaments. So, until you can print a good calibration box, there is little point in worrying about other printing defects you may be experiencing. Here is the step-by-step procedure for accomplishing this calibration:

1.

Obtain a model for a 10 mm high box which is 20 mm on a side. ReplicatorG contains as its first example this calibration box: look under the Examples section of the File menu. It is the 20mm_Calibration_Box.stl. Alternatively, Thing #2064 at thingiverse.com contains the calibration box as the download file 20mmbox.stl.

2.

Use calipers to measure the diameter of the filament with which you will be printing.

3.

With the calibration box model in your slicer, slice it at a 0.3 mm layer height, 100% infill, and using the diameter of the filament you just measured.⁴ It is critical that you use 100% infill and that you measure the diameter of your filament and input that to the slicer.

4.

Print the box.

5.

Carefully examine the top surface of the box. While it is easy to see if the top is convex, you may need to use a straight edge to gauge how flat or concave the top is.

(a)

If it is nice and flat, then you are done!

(b)

If it is convex, then too much plastic was extruded and your printer is over-extruding. Configure your slicing profile to put out slightly less plastic. How you will do this depends upon which slicer you use. For ReplicatorG, increase the “filament packing density” in the Dimension plugin. For MakerBot MakerWare and Desktop, increase the “feedstockMultiplier”. For Simplify3D, reduce the “extrusion multiplier”. Only change the value in small increments, such as 0.05.

(c)

If it is slightly hollow (concave), then too little plastic was extruded: your printer is under-extruding. Decrease the filament packing density (ReplicatorG), decrease the feedstockMultiplier (MakerWare and Desktop), or increase the extrusion multiplier (Simplify3D).

6.

Go back to Step 3, reslicing, reprinting, and re-evaluating the result.

If you happen to have two extruders, it is recommended to do this calibration once for each extruder. Then keep distinct slicing profiles for each extruder: one for the right extruder and another for the left extruder.

Once you can print a nice calibration box, you are ready to get back to printing. Keep in mind that this calibration process should be repeated for different type of plastics. At issue is the differing hardnesses of the plastics used. The pinch gear in your printer’s extruder feed mechanism bites into the plastic filament. The depth to which it bites depends upon the hardness of the plastic. And the deeper the bite, the smaller the effective turning radius of the gear. With smaller turning radius, less filament is fed per rotation of the extruder stepper motor. This calibration is primarily to address your extruder’s handling of these variations in hardness. For example, ABS is significantly softer than PLA and so significantly different adjustments may be needed for ABS versus PLA. This will, of course, depend upon the geometry of the pinch gear and how capable it is of biting into the filament.


ALSO SEE  https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/

Extruding Too Much Plastic

The software is constantly working together with your printer to make sure that your nozzle is extruding the correct amount of plastic. This precise extrusion is an important factor in achieving good print quality. However, most 3D printers have no way of monitoring how much plastic is actually extruded. If your extrusion settings are not configured properly, the printer may extruder more plastic than the software expects. This over-extrusion will result in excess plastic that can ruin the outer dimensions of your part. To resolve this issue, there are only a few settings you need to verify in Simplify3D. Please see the Not Extruding Enough Plastic section for a more detailed description. While those instructions are for under-extrusion, you will adjust the same settings for over-extrusion, just in the opposite direction. For example, if increasing the extrusion multiplier helps with under-extrusion, then you should decrease the extrusion multiplier for over-extrusion issues.

 

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Holes and Gaps in the Top Layers

[Jetguy]

Again, the MOST important things are:
#1 MEASURE filament diameter using calipers. There is NO reason to not have calipers in using a CNC machine like a 3D printer- let alone not using them.
#2 Enter that diameter into your slicing profile. You should KNOW where that is like the back of your hand.
https://www.makerbot.com/support/new/04_Desktop/Knowledge_Base/Using_Custom_Slicing_Profiles
https://www.makerbot.com/support/new/04_Desktop/Knowledge_Base/Using_Custom_Slicing_Profiles/19-MakerBot_Slicer_settings:_Extrusion_profiles
S3D setting for equivalent https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/#
If your filament diameter is correct, but you are still seeing under-extrusion issues, then you need to adjust your extrusion multiplier. This is a very useful setting in Simplify3D that allows you to easily modify the amount of plastic that is extruded (otherwise known as the flow rate). You can find this setting by clicking “Edit Process Settings” and going to the Extruder tab. Each extruder on your printer can have a unique extrusion multiplier, so if you are trying to modify the flow rate for a specific extruder, make sure to select it from the list on the left to load the settings for that extruder. As an example, if your extrusion multiplier was 1.0 previously and you change it to 1.05, it means you will be extruding 5% more plastic than you were previously. It is typical for PLA to print with an extrusion multiplier near 0.9, while ABS tends to have extrusion multipliers closer to 1.0. Try increasing your extrusion multiplier by 5%, and then reprint the test cube to see if you still have gaps between your perimeters.
#3 You print a standard 20mm calibration cube http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2064 (specifically 20mmbox.stl http://www.thingiverse.com/download:5839) (NOTE, it is 20mm X and Y but ONLY 10mm tall!!!!) With 100% INFILL. FAILURE to use 100% infill for this test makes the results WORTHLESS.
#4 Based on the 20mm calibration cube results, modify the extrusion multiplier and make a new print file to test with.

Extruder Profile settings

The following settings are available in each extruder profile:

 

"feedDiameter". Millimeters.

Specify the diameter of the filament you will be using. If this value is too low, your extruder will extrude too much plastic. If it is too high, your extruder will extrude too little.

 

"feedstockMultiplier". Multiplier.

For reasons that include differences in filament density and die swell, the volume of plastic going into extruder might not be the same as the volume of plastic coming out of the extruder. The number set here compensates for that difference.

[Harrison Lonczynski]

Just throught I'd give everyone an update. We've currently got a Smart Extruder + on the way as a replacement, but in the meantime we used 1 of our 2 free a year and got a new original SE. This seemed to help quite a bit but at first I was still running into some trouble. My save all? The heated build chamber. I decided to give it a shot, figuring what's the worse that could happen. As soon as I used it, my problems nearly vanished. I actually got a solid, good looking, no curling 42 hour print from the thing over the weekend! My printed object was an 8" x 10" nest for a rubber part we produce. I heated my chamber up to roughly 125 degrees Fahrenheit, removed the painters tape from the build platform and set it to the default "High" quality print settings in Makerware. It came out great! Highest quality print we've gotten from the machine ever! Now I'm waiting for something else from upstairs to try and print to see if it works as well again!

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 8:54:57 AM UTC-5, Harrison Lonczynski wrote:

[Jeremy Rosser]

Looks great. What did you use to head your build chamber?

[Brandon Pomeroy]

The Z18 has a built in heated chamber, so they probably used that!

[Jeremy Rosser]

Right. I was thinks the regular Makerbot 5th gen.

[Joe Paladin]

If you are printing with PLA plastic that is just not a professional thermoplastic more for toys.  After buying my Makerbot 5th gen and realizing it was only intended to print PLA I did a lot of research and testing.

The end result in my opinion is PLA sucks and ESun PETG is amazing using the right machine settings.  Fortunately the 5th gen is capable of printing PETG perfectly without a heated bed, I print just on blue painters tape.

The PETG filament comes on a spool that does not fit into the Makerbot, and you need a well designed filament roll holder not something generic on ebay sitting on roller bearings with no filament tube guide.

Also you need the right machine settings to print PETG and you probably do not want to go through all the trial and error I went through even if you are a mechanical engineer like myself who likes scientific method, i.e. trial and error.

It takes 11 hours to print the PETG components, mine is a similar design to what is on the machine sliding the Esun PETG spool over flexing plastic that locks the spool of filament in place in a rectangular wood frame and filament tube guide.

The machine settings are on a USB drive.  My email is joepa...@hotmail.com   For $99 plus $20 shipping I could make one for you.

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 8:54:57 AM UTC-5, Harrison Lonczynski wrote: