Smart extruder stops during a print...please help.....what can I do?

[kayvan kolahdoozan]

Hello everyone,
I have a 5th gen desktop and a 5th mini printer but I have several problem with these printers ( smart extruder ).
when I bought makerbot printer , my first smart extruder clogged after 6 or 7 prints so I open it and resolve the problem and order 1 smart extruder to have reserve, after about 5 prints my first extruder making clicking noise during the print and the extruder does not extrude enough filament while printing so my object had crack and gaps and finally extruder stop extruding filament completely ! so I change the extruder  and my second extruder had this problem from the first print (it doesn't extrude enough filament so the object had rarely good quality) until it starts to have clicking noise and stop extruding during the print, please note that when I unload and load the filament usually there is no problem and when the extruder stops extruding and I press the pause and reload the filament, extruder continue extruding and after a few it will stop extruding!
so as I have an Unopened replicator 5th gen mini I use mini's extruder and after 4-5 prints I faced to the problem again,so I tried these 3 extruder on mini printer and get same result !
I am really upset and angry about this and I don't know what to do with this problem ,if I buy new extruder I think I will have this problem in maximum 10 print so I have scrap my 2 printers?????
I read some where maybe can improve extruder working with profile in makerware (like : feed diameter,feedstockmultiplier or ...) or may be the problem is because of profile?
have anybody this problem?

what is your Idea????

[Bjørn Borud]

I was experiencing some of the same symptoms.  When I looked at the unloaded filament I noticed that the indentations made by the feed gear on the filament felt dull. I took apart my extruder on friday and looked at the feed gear under a microscope.  It looks as if the edges of the teeth have been worn down or broken.  Sadly I do not have a camera on the microscope, but if I get one I'll try to make a video of the gear.  (It isn't very easy to see in still images due to the reflectiveness of the surface, but if you turn it under the microscope you can clealy see that the edges are worn out.

I sent an email to the local distributor asking them if the feed gear was available as a spare part.  It isn't.  The only remedy they are able to offer is that I can return the extruder for "cleaning and recalibration".  I also sent an email to Makerbot Industries asking if I could buy the feed gear as a spare part, but I haven't heard back from them yet.

If they expect me to pay 2600,- NOK (yes, it is about $380 for the extruder here in Norway) about 1-2 times per month for new extruders as I wear them out they are mistaken. And if they don't come up with solutions, the machine is going back.

[Ryan Carlyle]

If I were you, I'd ship it back while you still can. 

[TobyCWood]

As mentioned in another thread, loading the filament is VERY different from the extrusion feeds during printing. The constant in and out of the filament movement during actual printing requires that the filament maintains some semblance of rigidity... thereby maintaining it's circular shape during these rapid motions. In the 5th Gen machines the extruder design is so bad that the filament goes soft and can't maintain the correct shape to fit through the small holes it has to travel through. Hence it clogs and the bot air prints.

IT CANNOT BE FIXED. MBI will never be able to modify these products into real working units that print as reliably or as well as so many other 3D printers currently on the market (which BTW cost a lot less). This is an inherent design flaw which can't be upgraded or modified into reliability. One of many.
Ryan is correct. Return it ASAP!

yes, it seems illogical... irrational for a name brand company to market and sell such defective products, but they ARE. Their motivations are not what the buying public assume they would be.

[Steve Johnstone]

+1 on sending it back while you still can.

[Enginwiz]

+1 on returning your 5th Gen printers. It is unlikely that Makerbot will fix all the design flaws.
Usually Makerbot comes up with a next generation printer when the flaws of the current product get public.
Maybe we will see the 6th Gen at CES and the 5th Gen owners are left behind as roadkill.

[BradintheUSA]

Return it ASAP

[kayvan kolahdoozan]

hi every one ,

thanks for your respond here is a solustion that came from Wim in my e-mail, that I use and get some help from : " https://groups.google.com/d/msg/makerbot-users/FZlYOUOukeg/6AZF2FEWVokJ "

and my problem solved about 80% but still I think makerbot is a weak brand than for example cubify!what is your Idea ?

Wim's email below : 

Hey Kayvan,

join the club ;-)

You should first upgrade to firmware 1.4 and use an oiler (oil reservoir) on your filament. If you google around you'll find the info, you can print

this item from thingiverse:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:376438

With kind regards,

Wim.woww,

Thats great Wim,

It seems working with your solution ,I print an oil reservoir(using baby oil) and put it on extruder so i have print 3-4(each 4-6 hour) objet until now it is very good for me, I have to say thanks a lot for your solution,you saved me.but I think this is a big bug for makerbot.

So I can't see your comment in group,what is the reason? I think you are not so active in makerbot users group,so I will put your solution to my topic for other.

Thanks again.

I will be happy if you have any suggestion for better printing

[Jetguy]

The problem with that answer is they (MakerBot) is calling you stupid. They are insulting you and calling you names we can't use here.

If you bought a brand new car, and it stalled while driving down the road all the time. You buy their overpriced gasoline, you get it serviced by the dealership, and yet it stalls every single time you drive the car. Someone online says, "jam an oily rag down the intake and that will solve the problem".

Do you:

#1 Raise a huge argument with the car manufacturer as it is not working as intended.

or

#2 Follow some questionable information you received on the internet that will eventually gum up the $175 extruder module and really doesn't solve the problem

By you guys spreading total and complete BS hacks like this and then using them rather than complaining to MakerBot you are making the problem worse.

Why should MakerBot fix the problem if you guys are going to spread complete and utter nonsense like this as a fix?

If it worked, why doesn't MakerBot include a bottle of special filament oil and the molded plastic oiler?

Think about that, if it's such a magic fix, why is this not on the FAQ page? Why is it a "secret" that is passed via email?

Why don't they sell an add on device in the store for this?

[Jetguy]

I'll play both sides of this out:

I've tried oil myself previously on an extruder in another printer giving me problems with PLA. After about 3 times, I decided never again because the entire thing slowly became a nasty sticky mess.

Did it help the extruder extrude? Yes

Did it help my prints? No, it caused more problems than it solved.

Did it damage my printer? Yes, it made it a sticky mess of oil and oil attracts dust. There's not enough alcohol and cleaning agents in the world to remove all the oil after just a few uses. The oil creates oil mist and fumes that spread ALL OVER the printer, not just the extruder. Ever seen the area around a fryer at a fast food joint? It's like a bomb of "sticky" went off.

So things you have to ask yourself about using oil:

If you keep adding oil, where does it go? I mean it has to go somewhere right?

At what point does oil fill something up inside the extruder and run over or drip out?

If common advice is that fingerprint oil alone can keep objects from sticking to the print bed- what happens when a stray drop of oil lands on the print bed?

If oil keeps parts from sticking to the printbed, wouldn't oil also make the layer bonds weak(er) in the printed parts?

Wouldn't oiling before the drive gear tend to make the drive gear more prone to slipping- not less?

The folks who recommend this NEVER address those basic questions.

[KC]

I agree with Jetguy. I once used oiling method to get my rep2X to print PLA just to rush some projects, in the end the PLA models printed with my oiled rep2X just didn't cut it in terms of print quality. Yes the layers will be extruded with no jam and the model will be printed out, but the quality was disappointing. In the end all the models went into the rubbish bin and I had to re-print all of them with my other printers.

I imagine the 5th gen is suffering the same heat creep issue, and oiling method will probably help alleviate the problem. But it is not a permanent solution. 

[Ryan Carlyle]

If you do use oil, it's critical to use as little as possible. Like, one drop per spool of filament tops. The point is to put a very thin film across the cold zone, not drench the system.

[tramalot]

send it back , I met my 2nd this weekend.... junk

[TobyCWood]

@Kayvan

IMO MBI and Cubify both SUCK. Closed, proprietary 3DPs at the sub $10K levels that actually DO work ALL are based to some degree on open source designs.
Look REAL carefully... do the due diligence. You will find an inverse correlation between how reliable and operable a 3DP works Vs how much of it is proprietary. I.e., filament, controller, FW, SW, extruder design, etc, etc... The more proprietary, the less it actually WORKS!

[kayvan kolahdoozan]

I Agree with jet guy and all other too,

I know all of the oiling issue but I have no choice!! what can I do?

Unfortunately I cant turn the machines to makerbot. If I could, I didn't wait a minute! So just I have to try any solution :((

and just turn to better brand??

@Tobycwood

I think the problem of makerbot printers is not proprietary the problem is that makerbot is just WASTE!!!

If cube 3 or cube pro working like ads I really satisfy even they are proprietary!!

[TobyCWood]

Their proprietary designs in and of themselves Vs open source is not the issue... it's that the proprietary designs are crap! All Engineering is evolutionary and all of the >$10K 3dps out there that WORK are to some degree pedigreed from the original open source designs. While this makes for bots that work Vs not work it is also anathema to big money investing and corporate based production. These guys want to OWN it. The big money fueled 3DPs have not as of yet been able to match the open source evolutionary tree at the under $10K price point. As of yet, for FDM... it can't be done. If it could, then someone would. So... we now see Chinese bots based on the open source designs at super low prices. Bots THAT WORK... at least for ABS and PLA...

[Joe Soap]

I haven't been following this thread so apologise if this might already
have been mentioned....

Have you considered changing your nozzle? I'm thinking that filament
might be dragging on the nozzle.

I use these nozzles - they seem to work perfectly:

http://www.p3-d.com/low-friction-mk8-extruder-nozzles.html

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[Jetguy]

"Have you considered changing your nozzle? "

 

No, that is not even close to the problem on a 5th gen.

It's safe bet to say it will never be the nozzle on a 5th gen because you can't ever get the plastic TO the nozzle due to jams further up in the extruder.

 

Sorry if that's harsh but I don't want folks to waste time on things we know it's not.

[Joe Soap]

Okay. My bad. Hadn't read the details of this thread so didn't appreciate it was a 5th gen.

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[Ni To]

Hi all,

 

it is nice to see that makerbot is using my thing. I thought that part can save me some time, but it doesn't. In the last 8 month I get 3 Extruder.

 

The complete system of extruder and also the software has alot of problems. The temperature is not stable (+/- 4 is not stable), the extruded material is not calculated correct and you have no good options to fix that. But all of this is discussed several times. Here and in the old MBO.