Simplify3D and Bottleworks HBP?

[Gian Pablo]

I just switched to Simplify3D, very pleased with it. Prints are coming out much better and it has gotten rid of some annoying ringing and zipper artifacts.

However, on one of my printers I'm using the Bottleworks HBP, which is bigger than the standard build platform, and it is causing a slight problem.

When Simplify3D prints, it primes the extruder by moving off the side of the build platform and extruding some filament. On the Bottleworks HBP, the extruder is still over the build platform, so it makes a huge blob. So much filament is extruded that I'm concerned that it could cause a jam, or that the blog could stick to the nozzle and be dragged around.

Has anyone encountered this? Any good place to modify the priming code in Simplify 3D so that it doesn't do it at all? (Not really necessary since it also prints a 1 layer skirt, and that works fine for priming)

[Scott Booker]

The priming is located in the start.gcode in S3D, which is available in the "Scripts" tab of your process.  You can move the location for a proper "purge", or eliminate the purge all-together.  Pretty easy if you can read GCODE.

[Enginwiz]

Do you have a Replicator 2 with a Bottleworks HBP?

I might be using the startcode you are looking for.

[Gian Pablo]

I'm using a Rep 1 Dual with Bottleworks HBP

[Darrell jan]

I've been printing that blob and it doesn't seem to cause a problem. I usually remember to knock it off, but once or twice I didn't, and it just made another blob on the old blob. I didn't think it was that big, maybe 3 mm in length.

I also have the Rep 1 Dual with Bottleworks HBP, and S3D.

[Jetguy]

I also find that that blob, contrary to what you might think, helps wipe any boogers from the sides of the nozze at they capture in it. Again, I know it sounds odd, but years ago, there was just such a thing on thingiverse to make a blobk around the nozzle and then pull it off to clean between colors.

[Enginwiz]

This purge and wipe sequence is for a Replicator 2.

So the X and Y coordinates for the  "Wait Position" and the end

of the wipe will be different for your Replicator 1 dual.

My purge extrusion happens 5 mm left of the aluminium heat plate.

This "Wait Position" is at X-148 and Y-75 for the Rep 2.

There I extrude an approximately 10 cm long noodle of plastic

straight down to get a proper purge and some dead weight

hanging straight down before the wipe.

After the purge the nozzle slowly moves inward to

G1 X-140 Y-70 Z0.15 F1200 to do a slow wipe.

The hanging noodle from the purge is heavy enough

to stay hanging down from the heat plate and the

print starts with a clean nozzle filled with fresh material.

You find the "Starting G-Code" in the "Scripts" tab

of your FFF-Settings in Simplify3D.

For my Replicator 2 the complete Starting G-Code is:

; **** Replicator 2 start.gcode ****
M103 ; extruder off
M73 P0 ; enable build progress
M70 P2 (Simplify3D Creator)
G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum
G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum
G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5
G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0
G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly
M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM
G1 X-148 Y-75 Z120 F9000 ; move to wait position off table
G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating
M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)
M6 T0 ; wait for extruder to warm up
G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs
G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle
M108 R5.0 ; set extruder speed
M101 ; start extruder
G4 P3500 ; purge nozzle
G1 X-140 Y-70 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe
M103 ; stop extruder
G1 X-135 Y-65 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift
M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)
; **** end of start.gcode ****

The green coordinates for X and Y might be different for your Rep 1 dual.

Maybe you can only wipe your left nozzle in this fashion.

The blue number 3500 is the length of filament extruded during the purge.

Increase this value to extrude more filament.

 

[Scott Booker]

Is that an older start.gcode.. perhaps from an older version of S3D?  I notice that it is using RPM-based extruding for the purge (M108).  I believe the newer start.gcode canned examples got away from doing that (for good reason).

[Enginwiz]

I started using S3D as soon as it came out in summer 2013.
Initially S3D had this strange auto extrusion width feature,
that didn't work well with the Replicators. Recalibrating
and optimizing the print profiles kept me busy for a while.

Then I started working on a reliable purge and wipe procedure
to get a carefree and reliable startup sequence for the prints.
This start-gcode evolved over the last year and is a result of
trial and error testing. The some of the initial settings may
be from S3D version 1.1.5.

There is always room for improvements and I appreciate your advice.
Do you have a suggestion for better purge settings?

[Scott Booker]

It's just that RPM-based extruding has proven to be a bit unreliable and "jinky" with X3G andGPX.. and if I remember correctly, it has been "obsoleted" and Dan has suggested against trying to use it with Sailfish (and MBI) firmware.  So while you may have success, I believe it is unsupported.

The newer revs of S3D that I have received have gotten rid of the RPM based purge in the canned profiles that I have looked at for the Reps and Rep clones.  Generally speaking I believe the code typically looks like this now (example only):

G1 X150 Y75 Z1 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

M104 S[extruder0_temperature] T0 ; set right extruder to specified temperature

M133 T0 ; wait for right extruder to warm up

G92 A0 B0

G1 E10 F200

G4 P0

G1 X90 Y75 Z1 F1200 ; slow wipe

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

Scott 

[Enginwiz]

The flaw in RPM mode is new for me. Thank you for mentioning it.

The G1 E10 F200 looks like a much more elegant way to do the purge.

Is the G4 P0 in the next command line still necessary?

[Dan Newman]

On 08/10/2014, 11:47 AM, Scott Booker wrote:
> It's just that RPM-based extruding has proven to be a bit unreliable and
> "jinky" with X3G andGPX.. and if I remember correctly, it has been
> "obsoleted" and Dan has suggested against trying to use it with Sailfish
> (and MBI) firmware. So while you may have success, I believe it is
> unsupported.

Circa 2010, MBI and the community started to move away from RPM based
gcode. The Volumetric 5D driver (for Volumetric 5D gcode) in RepG tried to
support the older RPM based commands. But the support was buggy. (Mind you,
the support in the same drivers for Vol 5D was buggy as well, but that's
another story.) Various folks stamped out the bugs as they would arise
but there were occasionally compromises involved which pointed the way
to "just use Vol 5D, thank you". When Wingcommander was writing GPX and
working some with Jetty on understanding some aspects of RepG, they discovered
some more bugs in the Vol 5D drivers as regards attempting to support RPM
based gcode. They fixed that bug or two which had the side effect of causing
a change in observed behavior for these RPM anchors. They still work, but
not as some folks expected (they no longer leave the snot trail that some folks
thought intentional). At the same time, support for RPM-based gcode was
"officially" dropped. Note that from day one, Sailfish has required Vol 5D
gcode. (Ditto for MBI's mightyboard firmware.) The Jetty Firmware on
Cupcakes and Thing-o-Matics supported RPM-based gcode but when it got
a redo and renamed to Sailfish, we dropped that support.

Dan

[Or Cohen]

Actually, I like the blob better. It cleans material from the nozzle, so it wouldn't leave any previous material on the part

[Scott Booker]

Yes, I'd leave the G4 command in there.

Dan can probably go into the specifics and give you a much more elegant answer.... but in my minds-eye the "G4 P0" says "don't look ahead, don't get clever, don't do anything else until you've absolutely completed all the moves that I have already given you".  In other words, clear your move buffer.  Note that it's a "0 millisecond" argument, so it's not actually forcing a dwell or tangible delay.

I have a (good or bad, depending on how you look at it) habit of dropping them into various places in my auto-level start.gcode.... just to make dern sure that things get performed in the exact sequence that I want them to.

[Enginwiz]

The G4 PX is a wait command with the time X in milliseconds. 

I added 100 ms of wait time to release the pressure inside the nozzle a bit before wiping.

My new Starting G-Code is now:

; **** Replicator 2 start.gcode ****
M103 ; extruder off
M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D and GPX)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum
G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum
G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5
G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0
G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly
M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

G1 X-148 Y-75 Z120 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating
M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)
M6 T0 ; wait for extruder to warm up
G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs
G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

G1 E12 F200 ; extrude 12 mm of filament
G4 P100 ; wait 100 ms to release pressure

G1 X-140 Y-70 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe
M103 ; stop extruder
G1 X-135 Y-65 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

Extruding 12mm of filament during the purge seems to give the extruded noodle

enough weight to keep it hanging down at the side of the aluminium heat plate

after the wipe.

[Scott Booker]

I don't believe the M103 command is necessary......

[Dan Newman]

On 09/10/2014, 4:52 AM, Scott Booker wrote:
> I don't believe the M103 command is necessary......

I concur.

The M73 P0, on the other hand, is important. It cases the "build start
notification" command to be placed in the .x3g command stream. You definitely
want that as it resets a lot of state in the printer.

Dan

[Scott Booker]

It appears twice in your start.gcode... and if I'm not mistaken it is also a throwback to RPM-based extruding.

Also as a note:  "Newer" code appears to use the M133 and M134 commands for waiting for extruders and the HBP to come up to temperature.  Not saying that there is anything wrong with your M6.... just making an observation.

[Enginwiz]

In October 2013 the new HBP worked well with RepG and Kisslicer, but

Simplify3D and GPX gave me a headache. The HBP wouldn't heat up.

I had a conversation with Wingcommander in the GPX forum about the

neccessary gcodes in the start script and he posted his Kisslicer scripts.

The M103 (stop the extruder) is in his Kisslicer script and at that time I

did some experiments with filament loading via USB as a way of priming.

So stopping the extruder at the beginning of a print sounded like a good idea.

With a proper priming sequence in the startcode these M103 commands are

now obsolete.

The M6 T0 finally solved the problems to get the HPB and the nozzle

both heated up for a S3D / GPX print. Unfortunately there are a lot of

Gcode commands related to heating the Nozzle or the HBP. Reprap and

Makerbot use different Gcodes and sometimes this is really confusing.

For Repraps there is a comprehensive list of Gcodes in the Reprap Wiki.

Is there an up-to-date reference list for Makerbots special flavor of Gcode?

[Scott Booker]

An oft-asked question.. and to the best of my knowledge the answer remains: "No".

[John B]

I have been following this with interest, I do not know G code but have been comparing it with what was already in my Start G code of my version of S3D,

Enginwiz's code is very similar except for the M70 P2 (Simplify3D and GPX) line. What is that for?

[Jetguy]

http://replicat.org/mcodes

M70 Display message on machine, with optional timeout specified by P-code in seconds
Ex.: M70 P10 (Display this text for ten seconds)

[Dan Newman]

And be warned that M70 can crash stock MBI firmware owing to some
buffer overrun bugs (which is why S3D has/had issues on stock MBI firmware).

Dan

[John B]

Thank you for your answers, I am running sailfish 7.7. I take it the display is the text in the bracket? In this case it serves no useful purpose. 

[Dan Newman]

On 11/10/2014, 3:45 AM, John B wrote:
> Thank you for your answers, I am running sailfish 7.7. I take it the
> display is the text in the bracket?

Yes.

> In this case it serves no useful
> purpose.

Well that's in the eye of the beholder I suppose. The S3D folks
thought it had some utility since they put it in. But yes, removing
it has zero effect on your print.

Dan

[Rich Barton]

I'm using a Replicator2x and Bottleworks HBP.  I would really appreciate any help you can provide on the GCODE.  I have been using a piece of paper between the nozzle and BP; once the purge starts I slide the paper out slowly to collect the filament.  I have left it alone and it causes the print to fail.  BTW, the Bottleworks HBP is probably one of the best investments I have made.

[Jetguy]

Delete, Edit, or comment out the line in red.

; **** Replicator 2 start.gcode ****
M103 ; extruder off
M73 P0 ; enable build progress

M70 P2 (Simplify3D and GPX)

G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum
G161 Z F1200 ; home Z minimum
G92 Z-5 ; set Z to -5
G1 Z0.0 ; move Z to 0
G161 Z F100 ; home Z slowly
M132 X Y Z A B ; load current position from EPROM

G1 X-148 Y-75 Z120 F9000 ; move to wait position off table

G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; lower stepper Vrefs while heating
M70 P1 (priming nozzle...)
M6 T0 ; wait for extruder to warm up
G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; default stepper Vrefs
G1 Z0.4 ; position nozzle

G1 E12 F200 ; extrude 12 mm of filament
G4 P100 ; wait 100 ms to release pressure

G1 X-140 Y-70 Z0.15 F1200 ; slow wipe
M103 ; stop extruder
G1 X-135 Y-65 Z0.5 F1200 ; lift

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

[Jake]

Just a suggestion-- I use a similar start sequence to Makerware, with the priming leader printed across the front of the build platform.  Works great with my Bottleworks build plate.

Here is my start.gcode for printing with the LEFT extruder (T1) on my Rep2X:

; **** Replicator 2X start.gcode ****

; **** Left Extruder Only ****

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

; *** Homing process ***

G162 X Y F2000 ;(home XY axes maximum)

G161 Z F900 ;(home Z axis minimum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 ;(set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900 ;(move Z to '0')

G161 Z F100 ;(home Z axis minimum slowly)

M132 X Y Z A B ;(Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z50 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

; *** Preheating ****

M135 T0 ; (Change tool T0)

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 ;(Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

M140 S[bed0_temperature] T0 ;(Set build platform temperature)

M134 T0 ;(Wait for build platform to reach or exceed temperature)

M135 T1 ;(Change tool)

M104 S[extruder1_temperature] T1 ;Set extruder temperature

M133 T1 ;(Wait for extruder)

G130 X127 Y127 A127 B127 ;(Set Stepper motor Vref to defaults)

; *** Priming ***

G1 X105.400 Y-74.000 Z0.270 F9000.000 (Extruder Prime Dry Move)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z0.270 F1800.000 E25.000 (Extruder Prime Start)

G92 A0 B0 (Reset after prime)

G1 Z0.000000 F1000

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

Also, I have a LAYER Change script to update the % complete:

M73 P[progress] ;set %-complete

And while I haven't done dual extrusion yet with Simplify3D, I did put in a Tool Change script:

M135 T[new_tool]

Your mileage may vary.

[Jetguy]

While on the subject of proper edits. How about we remove this line too?

G130 X20 Y20 A20 B20 ;(Lower stepper Vrefs while heating)

I get the intent, MakerBot did this on the Replicator Dual and 2X because the power supply is too weak to run the heated bed, the dual extruders, and all 5 motors at the same time. That said, the firmware enforces sequential heating of the bed first, then the extruders anyway so this is just one more leftover from them.

Or, alternatively reorder major sequences.

Like go ahead and home first so the user feels like the printer is doing something after they hit print, but go ahead an disable the motors completely during the heating stage. Then after heaters have reached temp, finish the slow home (backoff 5mm, then rehome slow) and then start the print??

I've brought that up a hundred times but nobody ever does it. Just kind of frustrating to see everyone using the bad solution that MakerBot kneejerked to blowing up PSUs like 3 years ago.

[Jetguy]

This is what I would personally prefer to see people use.

; **** Replicator 2X start.gcode ****

; **** Left Extruder Only ****

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

; *** Initial Homing process AKA Do something when I hit print***

G162 X Y F2000 ;(home XY axes maximum leaving Z axis completely alone)

G92 X5 Y5 Z0 A0 B0 ;(set X and Y axis to +5 for backoff from endstop)

G1 X0 Y0 F900 ;(move X and Y axis back 5mm from endstop by moving to 0)

; *** Preheating ****

M135 T0 ; (Change tool T0)

M140 S[bed0_temperature] T0 ;(Set build platform temperature)

M134 T0 ;(Wait for build platform to reach or exceed temperature)

M135 T1 ;(Change tool)

M104 S[extruder1_temperature] T1 ;Set extruder temperature

M133 T1 ;(Wait for extruder)

; *** Final Homing process ***

G162 X Y F2000 ;(home XY axes maximum)

G161 Z F900 ;(home Z axis minimum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 ;(set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900 ;(move Z to '0')

G161 Z F100 ;(home Z axis minimum slowly)

M132 X Y Z A B ;(Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z50 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

; *** Priming ***

G1 X105.400 Y-74.000 Z0.270 F9000.000 (Extruder Prime Dry Move)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z0.270 F1800.000 E25.000 (Extruder Prime Start)

G92 A0 B0 (Reset after prime)

G1 Z0.000000 F1000

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

On Sunday, October 12, 2014 7:49:37 AM UTC-4, Jake wrote:

[Jetguy]

Oops!! In my urgency to post this I forgot to disable the steppers after the first home and backoff to maximize power for heating.

; **** Replicator 2X start.gcode ****

; **** Left Extruder Only ****

M73 P0 ; enable build progress

; *** Initial Homing process AKA Do something when I hit print***

G162 X Y F2000 ;(home XY axes maximum leaving Z axis completely alone)

G92 X5 Y5 Z0 A0 B0 ;(set X and Y axis to +5 for backoff from endstop)

G1 X0 Y0 F900 ;(move X and Y axis back 5mm from endstop by moving to 0)

M18 X Y Z A B ;(Turn off steppers for heating operations)

; *** Preheating ****

M135 T0 ; (Change tool T0)

M140 S[bed0_temperature] T0 ;(Set build platform temperature)

M134 T0 ;(Wait for build platform to reach or exceed temperature)

M135 T1 ;(Change tool)

M104 S[extruder1_temperature] T1 ;Set extruder temperature

M133 T1 ;(Wait for extruder)

; *** Final Homing process ***

G162 X Y F2000 ;(home XY axes maximum)

G161 Z F900 ;(home Z axis minimum)

G92 X0 Y0 Z-5 A0 B0 ;(set Z to -5)

G1 Z0.0 F900 ;(move Z to '0')

G161 Z F100 ;(home Z axis minimum slowly)

M132 X Y Z A B ;(Recall stored home offsets for XYZAB axis)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z50 F3300.0 (move to waiting position)

; *** Priming ***

G1 X105.400 Y-74.000 Z0.270 F9000.000 (Extruder Prime Dry Move)

G1 X-112 Y-73 Z0.270 F1800.000 E25.000 (Extruder Prime Start)

G92 A0 B0 (Reset after prime)

G1 Z0.000000 F1000

M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)

; **** end of start.gcode ****

[Enginwiz]

In the now defunct Makerbot Operators Group there were reports of the Z-stage moving

downwards with the additional weight of Aluminium arms and the Bottleworks HBP

when the stepper motors are disabled. I have a set of prototype Aluminium arms with the

original brass bushings in my Rep2, that applies just enough friction to the Z-stage

to stay at the same Z-height with disabled stepper motors. So the reduced motor current

seemed a good idea to make sure, that the Z-stage doesn't slip down during heating.

[Jetguy]

If you noticed, the updated code I posted NEVER homes Z before heating. That makes your point completely moot. The Z stage is only raised AFTER it has reached temp and the extruders have reached temp.

The point here is to not dork with the stepper current ever. The motors are either ON at appropriate times or OFF.

So again, the code I just posted only homes X and Y to fool the user into thinking the printer is "doing something" right after they press print. Otherwise, the machine would sit there and just heat and people might freak out. But, we know that initial home is bogus because we disabled the stepper drivers in order to give maximum power to the heaters. Only after the heaters reach temp, we do a home again of XY and now include Z. We parked X and Y a very short 5mm away from the endstops again, just to give the user that extra sense it really did home.

[John B]

Jetguy

The start code you published is for a 2x would this be a beneficial code to run on a Rep2?