Time for new printer, feedback appreciated

[Eric Pavey]

After 3 years of mostly happy times with my rep1 (can't believe I got it in March of '12..), it's time to upgrade:  Back in the day I was a huge fan of MBI, but as of today I'm sad to say I'll be looking outside the product family.  I'm posting this question here since this group is (obviously) most familiar with the hardware I have and I feel could give some good feedback.

I'm looking to print unteathered, with a 'large' build volume (square footish), using different materials (ninjaflex, carbon fiber, etc) but primarily PLA (no abs needs here), @ 100 micron, with a non-moving build platform & supports Simplify 3D.  Heated bed / enclosed printer would be nice, but not required.  My price range is $3k-ish or less.

Currently, I'm heavily eyeing the Type A Machines Series 1 : It seems to meet those qualifications, and since I'm local to the SF bay area, I like the idea of having the manufacturer in my back yard.

Other printers I've looked at include:

• Fusion3 : Looks great, but starts $1k more than what I want to spend, and goes up from there.  Not read a lot about it.
• Rostock MAX : I like it overall, but would rather be printing than assembling. Price point is great though.
• Creatorbot 3d : Sounds like it has everything I'm after, but really haven't heard anything about it.
• gMax 1.5XT : Wish that build platform didn't move...
• Stacker : I'd totally get this if it wasn't way outside my price-range...  :-(
• Ultimaker 2 Extended : This is probably my close second.

Two questions are:  

1. Pro's\cons for what I've listed, or other any other suggestions?
   
2. Selling price point for a really well running rep1 with several upgrades (active print-cooling fan, fixed voltage regulator, removable glass build plate, new nozzles, probably others I've forgot) with all original boxing and materials.  I've already got buyers lined up, I just need to know how much to charge them :)

Many thanks

[TobyCWood]

FusionF306... it's a coreXY machine... but they use a RAMPs board. For that price i would have expected something more advanced. Otherwise a goodlooker. it's on my smiley list.

Rostock Max is for the tinkerer with a lot of patience not for the printer who just wants good output out of the box. however, once built and once tuned and once the owner is well tuned you can good good output. lots of support out there too.

UM2... everything about it looks great except for 1 thing... and IMO it's a biggie... The nozzle and the hotblock are 1 part. Get an unclearable clog and guess what you get to do?! A complete extruder teardown. Heck with that!!

Creatrbot is kinda too new with little support. A bunch of folks in the other forum are working them... if you want to print out of the box it may be the wrong way to go. IIRC it too is coreXY.

Stacker... it's a KS. No. You buy. You wait. Then you tinker.

gMax? Why not a Lulzbot? Same approach. Same issues.

IMO The TAM is the way to go... it's they way I expect to go... BUT I hear a rumor the 2015 version is about to get announced.

[Eric Pavey]

Thanks TCW, great feedback.  Excited to hear if TAM has something new in the works...

[Eric Pavey]

And to answer your question, I just listed the gMax as an example:  The TAZ looks great other than it's just slightly smaller than what I'm after, and that movable build platform gives me the willies...  It's not like I'm printing vertical spaghetti noodles, but the thought of it whipping back and forth just falls into my no list...

[TobyCWood]

Yeah... I hear ya on that. However the Taz4 I get to play with now and then does ok.

OTOH...my MSimple also has a moving bed... in Y... and it is a BLAST to watch it print on my desk. You can see everything!

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 8:25:42 PM UTC-7, Eric Pavey wrote:

[Ken Basteiro]

I just got the Makerbot Z18 after returning my 5th gen replicator almost 1 year ago. I waited for them to release the 5th gen and then had another month after it was suppose to be released. Finally I received it and only kept it for 3 weeks due to clogged extruder after clogged extruder after clogged extruder!!!! OMG I was so pissed. Well I really did like the looks of the 5th gens so I kept watching them for the past 8 months and decided to buy the Z18...and I am so glad.

 

I have documented ever print so far and I have done a 73hour, 54hours 53hour and another 54 hour print w/o a single issue. I can now feel comfortable knowing I can start a 60 hour print and come back to it finished. You may want to look at the Z18.

[Eric Pavey]

@Ken B:  Maybe i'm out of the loop, but I figured the z18 is using the same 'smart extruder' as the other 5th gens, which (like you've mentioned) has been nothing but problems.  I have a friend with one, and she'll get a few prints out of one of those extruders before it jams... has to send it back.. .wait for the replacement... that's just crazy.  Other than your comments above, I have yet to really hear anything positive about the z18  (but sure have read about a lot of problems...).  How have you got yours running so well?

But even so, it's out of my price range ;)

[Scott Goldthwaite]

The Type A Series 1 machine looks really nice. I like the extruder design. You can get a 10% discount from Adafruit on Wednesday nights. To get the discount code you need to watch their "Ask an Engineer" YouTube show, Wednesdays 7:30 pm EST. On the show the give out the discount several times and it's good until midnight.  I think you can also get a 10% discount on Thursdays for 3D printer stuff only, they tell you this code on their "3D Thursdays" YouTube show, 3:00 pm EST. 

[Eric Pavey]

That's a good tip: $2995-%10 - $2695:  I noticed that the TAM's storefront is selling it for $2749, so it looks like it saves you $54.  But I live near TAM.... so if I get it myself, there'll be no shipping.... but no tax if I order from NY..... HMMMmmm......

[John Borlaug]

Thanks for that update to Fusion Toby! Just as I was going to start one of 3 paid pieces last night, I got all my alarms. I then recieved a very pleasant phone call via the 'speak to us' block! Great things happening there!

[Eric Pavey]

So I just learned by talking directly to TAM support that the Series 1 can't pause/swap/reload filament while printing.  This is a dealbreaker for me...  I do way to much swapping at an exact z-height: I set a pause z-height in the firmware, then do a filament swap.  They suggested a "cut and follow" technique where you can slow the machine down, cut the filament, then follow in with a new one:  While technically this would work, it would create a cross-blend of colors (great if that's what you're after), and I just don't want to deal with that.

Sigh, I was quite set on the Series 1.  Have I been spoiled by Sailfish?  I kind of figured this was a common feature now a-days?  And then begs the question:  What other printers can do this?  I learned that the Ultimaker had a firmware updated just this Jan that enables it.

[Eric Pavey]

[adam paul]

Buy the fusion, install mightyboard. Get an awesome printer, while keeping sailfish. The fusion is a gorgeous printer.

[Jetguy]

I say this with huge respect, I think that's not a great answer.

Part of the reason to buy a Fusion F306 is the care and attention that goes into the tuning and custom config of each and every one of those. I got kind of lucky and sat next to the prototype that led to the Fusion F306 as we know it today and I have to tell you we shared ideas and that's basically a combination of some ideas I had and ideas he had already put into the design. So again, huge props, it's a good design but what makes it is the attention to detail and each one is built by hand, tuned for many hours before you ever touch it. Given that it uses braided line instead of belts, there is a reason each one is tuned and that is to fine tune steps per mm per axis.

That is put into the custom firmware on the controller.

So yes, you could totally buy one, rip out the controller and swap in a mightyboard- load the Sailfish Core XY firmware and have you a printer. You also paid for tuning that you literally threw away swapping controllers.

You'll also have to change from thermistor to thermocouple on the hotend (but that's not the biggest deal really). Another thing is, you probably want to user aftermarket stepper drivers rather than stock botsteps or you'll need to somehow cut the Vref pin on the botsteps and use a potentiometer circuit to create a voltage divider to increase the current range to drive those bigger motors.

Again, it could be done 100%

But if you are going to do all that- you might as well build a Core XY from the many plans that have been posted from scratch.

Again, buy the Fusion F306 because it's a highly tuned piece of hardware and firmware.

Or

Build from scratch.

I'm just saying, say a mightyboard is now anywhere from $138 for like a cheap knockoff, to $180 for a FlashForge. You still need to get minimally a keypad/sd card slot board and the big ribbon cable is the same 26 pins as used in the older Raspberry Pi  (since it is 3.14.15 Pi day) So realistically, if you are just buying parts, all said and done, you probably might have $250 for a mightyboard swap for all cables, LCD, button/SD card board, mightyboard, and either some mods or replacement drivers. And, we cannot forget a type K thermocouple.

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 8:22:06 PM UTC-4, adam paul wrote:

[teamca...@gmail.com]

I'm curious what people think of the Wanhao Duplicator 5s (heated bed version) or their impressions on the upcoming Tiertime Up Box. At the moment they are two that I'm most interested in.  I've got the itch to get a new printer in the next few months with a relatively larger print area than my old Replicator 2 and Up! Plus.

[Bruce .]

The Up Box is a nice piece of design, whether it is any good or not who knows? The only thing you may want to check out is the filament, it appears to fit into a receiver on the side of the printer, this may make it a proprietary brand filament deal and that is not a good thing.

[teamca...@gmail.com]

yeah, its hard to know if it'll be any good until it is actually released. As far as filament goes, that has always been slightly frustrating with any pp3dp/Afinia printer, but not a show stopper for me. In the forums on pp3dp.com someone asked the question about the filament, and the response from one of the tiertime guys was "there is no special measures to prevent ppl from doing small hacks like temperature mod or using third party filament."   And I'm comfortable with that after my experience doing simple temperature mods on the older Up Plus. The only thing that is confusing to me is that they made a printer with a larger print area, then made smaller spools, 500g to be exact, that fit into it. So if I end up getting one I'll have a very sleek looking printer with an eyesore of a homemade spool holder sitting right next to the printer with my 1kg spools feeding into it.