Replicator dual (aka rep1) advice

[MikeA]

long time reader, first time poster :)

I have a dilemma I'd like some advice on.

Short version; Do i keep upgrading my old beast or start new?

I'm basically using left extruder dedicated to PLA and right for ABS

Installed upgrades;

Bottleworks Alu Z arms

Printed mk7(?) upgrade, one of the ones off of thingiverse that uses the dodgy clips as springs, works well enough just showing it's not that reliable for longer prints.

Custom laser cut hood and windows.

A few Buildtak sheets

Printed blocks to restrict airflow some more for when i'm printing in ABS, i can reliably get the heated area to 45-50 when printing abs.

Replaced the factory cabling to the heated bed to the newer higher-power set.

Issues I need to resolve;

New feeder, 3-in-1 (if there's any left!) to replace my 100% infil dodgy job :)

Think there's a problem with my z-axis rod, prints at around 8cm high get really fragile for about 3-4 layers then are fine again.  Suspect there's something wrong with the thread at this height.

Mightyboard is starting to make some interesting "electrical sounding" popping noises so it's possible it's on the way out.

Will make the investment into Simplify3d as well, seems to be a lot of people raving about this, especially the slicing time.

Suspect my alu print bed has an issue in a couple spots (took me a lot of prints to work that one out!) so looking at the glass upgrade from bottleworks

I broke a couple blades on the left hand extruder fan.

Fan on the mightboard starting to make some interesting noises as well, likely bearing is clogged with dust, just need to replace this

While i'm there i may as well upgrade to the alu carriage and put a new extruder block/hotend on.

Reliability issues with PLA, need to do a better job at a blower kit to sort this out.

Reliability issues as I haven't assembled a really good spool feeder, most prints are fine, just one every so often filament falls behind the spool and gets itself tied up.

In short i'm getting awful close to starting again (i think)

I usually print in PLA these days but do use ABS from time to time especially if i'm building a bracket for my arcade cabinet build for example, essentially if i want a bit more rigidity / strength rather than printing "toys"  I'm need to get into temps around 240 due to the stock i buy so really want to get this thing as reliable as can be at hotter temps.

Do I persist with my shopping list or is it just best i start again with something that's a bit more sturdy?

I'm happy to tinker but honestly i'd like the whole printing experience to get a bit more reliable than it has been.  I'd also like to get quality up a little more, though i think that's just due to difficulties getting the layer hight lower due to a couple of the issues mentioned above.  I can reliably print at .30mm but as i get to .10mm more failures than successes.

Any suggestions welcomed.

[Joseph Chiu]

Just as a starting point of your analysis, keep on mind that the 2016 FlashForge Creator Pro is $899 and has a number of improvements over the Replicator.

The new chassis does a nice job of mostly enclosing the print chamber. And the injection molded top cover is less fragile than the laser cut version from before.

The only thing I think is objectionable now is the MK10 design with the PTFE tube which lowers your effective max speed for printing, limits your max temp, and that you'll eventually have to replace the PTFE tube at some point.

As long as you are sticking to PLA and ABS, the machine does great out of the box.

(Disclaimer: I sell the FFCP's.)

[MikeA]

Yes As i have the oldschool wooden box that is the rep1 i must say looking at these shiny new metal enclosures is appealing.

I guess thats also part of all of this from what I'm seeing most upgrades are for the 2/2x and occasionally for the 1.

Is this just because the 2 was more popular / so many clones based iff the design?

Im sure in tinkering i can get most things to work but a sturdier box is hard to beat as a platform to start off with and the only bit I can't fab myself.

Think I'm talking myself into a new printer.

Thanks for responding!

[Gian Pablo]

I have a similar machine, a Rep 1 dual with Bottleworks Z arms. I also have the Bottleworks print bed, 3in1 extruder upgrade, and all the Carl Raffles metal bits.

I updated the Mightyboard to get rid of the 5V regulator issue (replaced with a switching module) and added extra cooling.

With all this, it is my best quality printer, outperforming 2 Rep 2Xs which have also been heavily upgraded. For some reason it is just much better at bridges and overhangs. It mostly holds it own against newer printers, the only better prints I've seen have been from Ultimaker and Zortrax, but not for dual material.

However, it is clear to me that it is getting long in the tooth, and that newer printers should eventually be able to better it, and require less upgrading.

It sounds like yours is already on the way out, but you should still make the 5V regulator mod, and replace the Mightyboard fan ASAP. Sounds like you may also have a hot-end issue.

It all depends on how you value your time. You can certainly make it be a really great printer (that was my experience) but it does take time and effort. If you value your time, and just want something that prints, maybe the FFCP as Joseph mentions maybe more cost effective.

Or hold out for something more modern (and hopefully better).

[Joseph Chiu]

Yeah. For all the goodness that I get from the FFCPs, I still do lots of prints on my modded up Rep 1 because I get great quality and it's been my go to machine from day 1. 

The newer machines are less wonky out of the box though, especially because they don't have the plastic arms from the Rep1/Rep2 designs.

The FFCP uses Rep 1 profiles, btw. They might look more like there 2 and 2X, but they will print the wrong size if you use the 2 series profiles.

[MikeA]

Interesting that you both still rate the Rep1 highly in terms of print quality as I don't have any other experience in 3d printing outside building my own reprap back in the day (before the rep1).

Tinkering with it was part of me getting in to the thing in the first place, however since then it's become more a multi-tool to support other hobby builds around the house. Eg lots of little custom detail stuff for my arcade cabinet. In short my tolerance for dealing with issues on the printer is nearing more frustration than fun. Part of the value judgement i'm trying to make the question being, buy new vs repair/upgrade, is will i ever get it "reliable" meaning better than 10 prints without issue.

So perhaps quality of prints aside (while important) can i also ask with a more upgraded rep1, can i expect it to get to the point of print failures less than say 10% of the time ie one failure in ten (or better)? (my current experience has it at one failure in 4-5 i think)
This is also based on an assumption I go simplify3d or similar route so i verify tool pathing before i print (not exposed well in makerbot desktop) to minimise model issues.

[JF Kansas]

Why wouldn't the Rep 1 not rate highly in print quality? In the past 4 years or so nothing absolutely revolutionary has happened with FDM tech. If anything it has gone backwards somewhat with the Gen5 and all the other Cubes that have tried but gone away. All of the clones use Rep1 tech. 

[Darrell jan]

It depends on what's causing your failures. Is it from  a flakey mighty board? Replace that regulator before it's too late! And the fans. 

[Ryan Carlyle]

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 9:12:41 AM UTC-5, JF Kansas wrote:

Why wouldn't the Rep 1 not rate highly in print quality? In the past 4 years or so nothing absolutely revolutionary has happened with FDM tech. If anything it has gone backwards somewhat with the Gen5 and all the other Cubes that have tried but gone away. All of the clones use Rep1 tech. 

32bit boards that don't "crunch-crunch-crunch" small circles or stutter as much on complex shapes

CoreXY gantries

Triple lead screw beds 

General switch to supported linear rails over floppy rods

0.9 degree steppers and better drivers

Other than those, yeah, most development work has gone into UI/UX (which doesn't affect prints) and slicing toolchains and materials (which old printers benefit from). Oh, and race-to-the-bottom pricing, which probably makes things worse on net.

[Gian Pablo]

Other than homebrew builds, what commercial products are out there that match those specs? I think the Fusion3D series, but are there any others?

[MikeA]

Failures are a combination of all the upgrades i listed in the original post in my estimation, from the poor feed i get off the spool to taller prints having issues likely due to the z-axis rod issue (5+ different tall prints all broke off at exactly the same height).  Hence my question on reliability, for anyone who's done a number of the more common upgrades have you found you can get to the point of less than 10% failure rate (ie 1 failure in 10 prints or better)?

I've stopped printing for now while I work out which way my money goes.  Starting to think get a new printer and come back slowly repair the rep1 over time as a second printer.  Especially so now that I realise i need to fix the regulator to at least make it safe again.

[JF Kansas]

Ya, I get all that, but doesn't mean the Rep1 can't print quality parts. Maybe not fast, but quality shouldn't be a problem. 

[Ryan Carlyle]

Gian, I think only Fusion3 with most of those. The Craftbot Plus and Zortrax M300 check most of the boxes. (I count UM gantry as high performance along with CoreXY.) It's mostly still homebrew builds, but the hobbyists usually lead the OEMs in this space.

[TobyCWood]

Dual extruders are vanishing though. Only Raise3d seems to be offering it.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Traditional dual extruders are vanishing, but other options are growing:

• Multi-feed and mixing hot ends are gradually getting the kinks worked out via better firmware support (eg retracting all feeds simultaneously)
• "Parkable" dual extruder carriages in the BCN3D Sigma
• Mosaic Palette system for filament splicing
• Robox needle-valve anti-ooze nozzles

Then in terms of quality you get get from traditional dualstrusion machines, the needle is moving over time. E3D's ram purge and dump bucket sequence for the Big Box Dual is a really nice approach. Enhanced-PVA like Scaffold and new alcohol-soluble PVB are improving the range of options for soluble support applications. And slicer advances like S3D's ooze wall improvements in 3.x helped a lot with dualstrusion print quality.

It's actually a really good time to be doing dualstrusion. I think most manufacturers have just recognized that 99% of users aren't willing to deal with the added complexity of the second extruder. 

[Gian Pablo]

Well, to answer your question, on my Rep 1 my failure rate is much much lower than 1 in 10. More like 1 in 100 at this point, and that 1 is either a bed leveling issue or a material issue.

I'm not sure your Z breaking issue is due to the Z rod. It sounds like your extrusion gets thinner or weaker at that point. I suspect it may be a thermal issue, where the interaction between heating from the bed and from the extruders is causing the issue. Can you try it with all covers off and see if that helps? Any thermal issues would be made worse by a marginal filament drive, so consider replacing that as a priority.

[Gian Pablo]

Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on those. Looks promising!

I think another thing holding back dualstrusion is that the design workflow is not quite there yet. I do a lot of my design work in OpenSCAD where it is easy to generate one part as a subtraction, and the other as an intersection, but that is not for everyone. None of the accessible tools, in my opinion, have a good workflow for multiple materials.

[Gian Pablo]

Hmm. Sounds like a Raise3D with true 32bit electronics would be ideal. Maybe in their next generation...

[MikeA]

Perfect just what I needed to hear Gian, was starting to think that this thing would always need "work".  Maintenance and upgrades i'm good with, ongoing failures i'd like to see the end of the tunnel of.

With everyone talking about the 5v, what switching dc-dc converter is everyone using?  Something like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lucent-DC-DC-Converter-5V-DC-Output-30-Watts-JC030A1-Power-Module-/281747043931

[Gian Pablo]

I used this: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?keywords=945-1648-5-ND

It's a little more compact than the Lucent part.

[MikeA]

Ahh cool, yea the lucent is 30W i was thinking that was a whole lot, ok so something in the 500mw-1w range should do me then.  Thanks again!

[Gian Pablo]

Also regarding your fans - my Mightyboard fan on the Rep 1 crapped out, and was leading to some erratic behavior. This might be the source of your popping noises.

I replaced it with a better quality and higher CFM fan, and drilled some holes in the case to allow for more intake airflow. 

I also replaced both extruder fans with higher quality Orion fans.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 5:09:26 PM UTC-7, MikeA wrote:

[Joseph Chiu]

I bought ebm-papst fan, DigiKey 381-2367-ND when I chipped the fan blade on my Rep1. Since then, I have hit the blades a few times with the siren wrench, but have never broken any blades. Although eventually two of the three ribs holding the fan hub to the housing cracked, it still runs fine.

The airflow is excellent but the fan is a tad on the noisier side.

[Joseph Chiu]

Allen wrench, not siren! DYAC!

[tramalot]

https://www.amazon.com/Yeeco-Converter-Step-down-Transformer-Stabilizer/dp/B00MZOJR8A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1474137851&sr=8-3&keywords=5v+2a+dc

[Gian Pablo]

You'll find this useful: http://www.akeric.com/blog/?p=2836

And this is awesome: https://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@N04/sets/72157639842879535/

[MikeA]

Awesome, just what i needed, (vreg on it's way)

[Scott Lichtsinn]

Dual extruders are kind of a gimmick really... I have three Rep 1's, two of them are duals, and one is a single.  I actually have all the parts to convert the two duals into singles and i will get around to that one of these days, i never use the second extruder, its a lot quicker to me to just swap the filament in it if i want more then one color in a print.  On both of my duals i have the left extruder cranked up in its height adjustment so they are out of the way and no nozzles on them to prevent them snagging stuff.  When i got my first Rep 1 dual i did a few dual extrusion prints, but its so painfully slow with the extruder wipe and then a little bit of oozing and its all a ruined mess anyway.  Not saying that it cant be done well, but i don't find it worth it.  Looking at how many printers are now single extruder i think many are sharing that opinion.

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 11:36:36 AM UTC-5, TobyCWood wrote: