Backup nozzle rep1 nozzle: Recommended seller?

[Eric Pavey]

I've been printing with my rep1 for nearly 3 years, with the same nozzle:  Figured maaaybe... should get a few backups (especially since I'm doing some carbon fiber / stainless PLA).  Anyone have a recommended distributor? Plenty show up on ebay, but I'd prefer a shoutout from the group.

Thanks

[Ryan Carlyle]

I get most of mine from QU-BD (caution: not reliable for heater cartridges) or P3D (special coated nozzles).

[Eric Pavey]

Thanks for the info.

[tramalot]

when you get a cheap one, take a shish-kbbob stick and hone the throat with bone-ami or talcum and toothpastes

mass productions suck

 cheap means burrs

a 2 dollar whore is the same as a wife, you just need to lead it to get it wet... sorry but this is the only way I know too splain it

If you want silver or nickle plated I do 5 for 10 each, your profile accepeted, crome sucks

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 10:52:29 PM UTC-5, Eric Pavey wrote:

Thanks for the info.

[AVN Swiss]

We sell plated nozzles on ebay. They are plated with low friction TwinClad XT plating.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321671796527

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:48:09 PM UTC-6, Eric Pavey wrote:

[Bruce ????]

Great but you do not ship to Australia!!!

[Jeff Davis]

AVN -

Are you taking finished .4mm brass nozzles and plating them?  If so then they are no longer .4mm nozzles unless they are over sized drilled.

[Eric Pavey]

Also, can I run a mk8 nozzle on my Rep1 (mk7) ?  I'm not super educated on this, but I thought I needed to stick with the mk7.  Finding conflicting reports online....

[Dan Newman]

On 18/02/2015 1:18 PM, Eric Pavey wrote:
> Also, can I run a mk8 nozzle on my Rep1 (mk7)

Rep 1's have Mk8's not Mk7's. And, for all intents and purposes,
there's very little functional difference between an MBI Mk7 nozzle
and an MBI Mk8 nozzle, regardless of prior claims by Far McKon and MBI.
(The real difference between the Mk8 and Mk7 was the 50% height increase
and resulting increase in thermal mass of the aluminum heat spreader bar.
That's what made it possible for the Mk8 to handle PLA better than
the Mk7.)

Dan

[Carl]

+1

If you thermal barrier and cooling block are doing their job correctly... virtually any nozzle will work! :-)

[Eric Pavey]

Thanks Dan:  I know I've found multiple sources saying "blah blah Rep1 mk7 blah", but that's why I ask here :)

Mk8 it is!

[Eric Pavey]

Just an FYI, I picked up some of the nozzles by AVN Swiss, and they work really good:  http://www.akeric.com/blog/?p=2902

[AVN Swiss]

We  machine our nozzles from raw bar stock. We take into account the plating build up, so the hole before plating is oversize. Plating brings it to size. Even with M6 thread we make them by pre-plate specs.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Looks good at a glance. Are you willing to share what you coat them with? (At least the general type of coating?)

On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 10:41:44 PM UTC-6, AVN Swiss wrote:

We  machine our nozzles from raw bar stock. We take into account the plating build up, so the hole before plating is oversize. Plating brings it to size. Even with M6 thread we make them by pre-plate specs.

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 3:00:00 PM UTC-6, Jeff Davis wrote:

[AVN Swiss]

Its called TwinClad XT. Here is the link to plating company description of the plating: http://www.twincityplating.com/resources/TCP_fctsht_XT.pdf

[Ryan Carlyle]

Hmm, that looks pretty good.

Would you be willing to consider making thermal barrier tubes to proper Rep2 dimensional spec (not what's in the released drawings, the real "secret sauce" dimensions) with an internal coating like that? Coated nozzles seem to be mostly a cosmetic thing for external cleanliness, since the nozzle extrusion friction is so incredibly dominated by liquid viscosity in the orifice. But decreased semi-melt adhesion in the hot/cold transition zone could potentially make a real difference in jamming reliability.

[AVN Swiss]

We could make them if there is a demand for it. I know some companies that made replacement tubes missed an important step inside a bore. I don't see why it would be difficult to replicate that tube properly. After that its a matter of making everything oversize/undersize to account for plating build up.

[Christopher]

I would be in for such a thermal barrier tube ;) 

[John Borlaug]

Does that mean you guys are in (Mpls?)

[adam paul]

I'm in for 2+, as long as the price isn't ludicrous.

[AVN Swiss]

Glad there is interest in them. I will make a batch and plate them. As far as price, it shouldn't be expensive, depends on the quantity. 

Anyone knows precisely why that small step inside a bore makes a big difference? 

John,

Yes we are located in Twin Cities Minnesota

[Ryan Carlyle]

Most extruder jams happen in the cold zone when filament softens higher in the extruder than it's supposed to, gets squashed into intimate contact with the cool walls, and hardens solid. The stepped ID helps keep that from happening. (Lots of extruder designs use a PTFE tube to simply keep the resolidified plugs from sticking to the walls, but that isn't compatible with really high temp filaments like XT or PC.)

The short version of why the step helps is that you need a lot of annular clearance in the melt zone and hot/cold transition zone to reduce viscous shear force during rapid extrusion, but you need as tight a fit as possible in the cold zone to help wick away heat that is conducting up the filament during slow extrusion. If you make the whole ID small, you get too much viscous loss and the extruder has trouble pushing at high extrusion rates. If you make the whole ID large, you don't get enough cold zone filament cooling and you get cold-zone jams.

Additional possible mechanisms:

• When rapidly increasing injection rate, the semi-melt "cap zone" that contains melt pool pressure via viscous shear gets disrupted and filament squoozes up the annular zone between the tube wall and incoming solid filament. The stepped edge acts like a flow barrier to keep the semi-melt from being forced up into the cold zone.
  
• When you retract, the step edge acts a little bit like a drawing die to help neck down soft filament to a smaller diameter than the tube ID, so it doesn't just pull a big slug of semi-melt straight up into the cold zone.
  

Surprisingly, the exact dimensions don't seem to be anywhere near critical as the presence of the step. Anything like 2.0-2.4mm in the hot zone and transition zone (heat break neck) and 1.85-1.95mm in the cold zone seems to work.

[AVN Swiss]

Ryan,

We greatly appreciate the lengthy description, it clarified a lot of things for us. So that step needs to be sharp, without much break in it. Simply drilling with 2 different sizes drills will produce an angled transition, not a sharp transition we should strive for. Might require boring or drilling with a square shoulder drill.

I would like to cut one open and see how that transition look there.

[Ryan Carlyle]

I think a drill taper should be fine, as long as it's in a typical angle range. The important thing seems to be the different clearances in the temp zones. But I don't think anyone has ever done rigorous testing on the step taper. Maybe it does matter and we just don't know it.

[Jetguy]

Well, I've yet to be able to tell the difference between a drilled version and a genuine in side by side tests- so sure, that's not scientific but 10-12 working hot ends is hard to argue with.

[Jeff Davis]

The diameter change is not that great between the two.  You are basically getting a small chamfer on the corner.

 

[AVN Swiss]

Ok sounds good, I will keep you guys updated how it turns out.

[tramalot]

+10

[tramalot]

and basicly a plated snozle is just smaller, I learned this from experimenting with my old ones. the best thing you can do to a new noxxle is put it in a drill motor and stick a toothpick coated with bonami and clean/hone the steps...

nickel seems to last the longest but after 4kg it's gone

[AVN Swiss]

Tramalot
It's true that plating over a stock nozzle will make the hole smaller. But if you make a nozzle hole little oversize, plating will bring it back to correct size.
Nickel composite platings shouldn't rub off after 4kg of plastic. They are designed to withstand millions of plastic injection cycles. If ABS/PLA wears out a hard plating, imagine what it would do to a soft brass.

[tramalot]

not the stuff i run thru them, wood, cf, ceramic

and the 'best' part of plated is they are tighter in the box... 

I just resurrected a 1/4 20 lead sheline for r&d... 

nozzles are the most important but least studied 

[AVN Swiss]

So I finally got those thermal barrier tubes back from plating. They turned out pretty good. I decided to ream both holes, to get a better finish. Tested them on Rep 2 last night, works really good. 

Material is 303 Stainless Steel.

Here is the ebay link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321710963019

[Ryan Carlyle]

Looks nice! Thanks for posting a cross-section view.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Ok, random question -- how do you think the nickel plating would hold up against hot formaldehyde? Specifically for printing delrin. It tends to out-gas a bit and from what I hear will pit stainless steel. (I have a spool, but haven't bothered trying it because I don't want to tear up any of my hot ends.)

[AVN Swiss]

Ryan,

I could not find anything on nickel coating resistance to hot formaldehyde, in general it is more corrosion resistant then SS, but not sure if formaldehyde can attack it or not. BTW, did you have a chance to try out those thermal tubes? 

[Ryan Carlyle]

Just got them in the mail yesterday, haven't had a chance to inspect in any detail, but they look nice from the outside. 

[perform...@gmail.com]

Just in case anyone needs them, we're still making and selling our original coated nozzles that have been on the market and performing well for over a year and a half now.  We've also cut our pricing, and you can pick them direct from our site:
http://www.p3-d.com/low-friction-extruder-nozzles.html
or our ebay page:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/performance3d/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Our part number P3D-4N1 fits the line of makerbot printers (Rep 1, 2, 2X, 5th gen, Mini and Z18) and we also have ones that fit flashforge, wanhao, etc... and the like.  Don't be afraid to contact us or post here with any questions. 

Jay

[TobyCWood]

I just installed on of these on one of my Rep2s. Printin NICE!