Replicator 1 motor issue

[Bruce Kinsey]

My Replicator 1 (plywood) has been a great help to me for going on 3 years.  A couple of weeks ago, the extruder cooling fan decided to go belly up while I wasn't around and the machine had had stopped extruding half way through the job.  The reason, it turns out was the drive motor had stopped running.

1. Is it possible to switch boards with one of the other motors to see if it's a circuit issue.  If that's the case, I'll have to search for a replacement, or someone who's able to repair it.

2. If it's a motor issue, the original Moons type 17HD4063-01N no longer seems to be available.  Of the thousands of stepper motors available, does anyone know of a plug and play replacement?

3. If anyone knows how to get my replicator up and running via a repair service/parts supplier, I'd be grateful.

Thanks,

bfk

[Jetguy]

#1 it's never the motor. throw that out of your mind as even a step

#2 it's MOST LIKELY the cable to the motor from flexing Here is a place with a matching replacement cable. http://www.wanhao3dprintersnorthamerica.com/D4%20Catalog/index.html#p=10

part # WCSM -01 $13.75. Alternatively, Flash forge brand cables work http://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/parts-accessories/stepper-motor-cable.html and is cheaper at $8.50, but then when you factor in shipping, it becomes more expensive.

#3, HIGHLY unlikely to be the stepper driver. But, here that is too http://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/parts-accessories/flashforge-stepper-motor-driver.html $15 from Flash Forge but expensive shipping, or from Uncle Chuck's for http://www.wanhao3dprintersnorthamerica.com/D4%20Catalog/index.html#p=4 specifically part # WSMB-01 $10.95 but a lot cheaper shipping.

[Bruce Kinsey]

Thanks Barry. You've made my day.  The cable isn't the problem.  It was the first thing I checked.  Stepper motors are easy to find (but now, I don't have to locate a "compatible" one). My fear was, something's gone wrong with the motor's stepper board.  Now, I'm not concerned.  No matter what it turns out to be,it looks like the parts are available.  

Now, I only have to find out what needs to be replaced.

Everything but the motor on the printer is working normally.  Would running a filament load command, with a multimeter between the circuit board's power output pin and ground give me the answer?  If so, do you know which of the board pins is the power out?

Thanks again for the links.  Especially Wanhao.  That is a true gift.

On Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:44:12 PM UTC-5, Jetguy wrote:

#1 it's never the motor. throw that out of your mind as even a step'cement cable. http://www.wanhao3dprintersnorthamerica.com/D4%20Catalog/index.html#p=10

[TobyCWood]

So you swapped motors and you know it was the motor? Probably ain't the motor. Stepper motors are the most reliable parts in the bot. You swapped cables (both motor AND limit switch) and ruled out cables? and... have you swapped drivers(the little daughter boards on the controller board)? You can do that too. 

[Bruce Kinsey]

Hey, Toby.  Thanks for your input.  There's only the 4 wires connected between the board and motor.  What limit switch did I miss?  Limit switches have been the most problematic components in my experience, so if I've missed something, I'd go with that as the culprit.  I was thinking of swapping the circuit boards, but if there was a short somewhere on the motherboard, it might fry the good board as well, leaving me in a worse situation. I'd be more comfortable getting a new board and risking that.

I didn't swap out any cable, but checked the individual wires' continuity and the bundle for shorts. All while being being flexed, so I'm 100% certain it's not the cable or the Molex connectors.   If there's a limit switch in there controlling the extruder motor, then I missed that.  I only know of the X, Y and Z limit switches though.  

Occam's razor still leads me to believe the motor, being the component directly affected is the most likely suspect.  A quick search got me to CNCZone.com and this comment:  "Too high of an operating temperature causes the insulation to breakdown and the phase windings to eventually short".  With the hot end cranked, the motor's normally high running temperature and the lack of convection cooling, the heat had to be tough on the motor.

I'm no longer panicked about finding parts, and confident I'll solve the issue.  Motors and stepper drivers aren't that expensive (haven't checked shipping though), so ordering one of each would allow me to get the definitive answer plus a spare part as well. :)

bfk

On Sunday, November 16, 2014 2:07:41 AM UTC-5, TobyCWood wrote:

So you swapped motors and you know it was the motor? Probably ain't the motor. Stepper motors are the most reliable parts in the bot. You swapped cables (both motor AND limit switch) and ruled out cables? and... have you swapped drivers(the little daughter boards on the controller board)? You can do that too. 

On Saturday, November 15, 2014 10:29:56 PM UTC-8, Bruce Kinsey wrote:

Thanks Barry. You've made my day.  The cable isn't the problem.  It was the first thing I checked.  Stepper motors are easy to find (but now, I don't have to locate a "compatible" one). My fear was, something's gone wrong with the motor's stepper board.  Now, I'm not concerned.  No matter what it turns out to be,it looks like the parts are available.  

Now, I only have to find out what needs to be replaced.

Everything but the motor on the printer is working normally.  Would running a filament load command, with a multimeter between the circuit board's power output pin and ground give me the answer?  If so, do you know which of the board pins is the power out?

Thanks again for the links.  Especially Wanhao.  That is a true gift.

On Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:44:12 PM UTC-5, Jetguy wrote:

#1 it's never the motor. throw that out of your mind as even a step'cement cable. http://www.wanhao3dprintersnorthamerica.com/D4%20Catalog/index.html#p=10

[TobyCWood]

The motors are easily swapped.  If the motor for one axis is bad put it in another axis location. Then if it still will not operate I'd be convinced.

[Bruce Kinsey]

UPDATE: OK, this morning I went over Wanhao's parts list and saw ""motor stop board" and realized this could very well be the motor limit switch.  If the motor stop board has anything to do with the extruder motor, it's one more thing to look at.  I no longer think the motor is the most likely reason for the shut down.  I'll wait until tomorrow (Monday) before I do anything.  Glad I didn't act on my intuition.  Thanks Toby for bringing my attention to that. 

[Dan Newman]

On 16/11/2014, 9:38 AM, Bruce Kinsey wrote:
> UPDATE: OK, this morning I went over Wanhao's parts list and saw ""motor
> stop board"

They likely mean the X, Y, and Z limit switch circuit boards, which are based
upon this design

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4971

Those are used when the bot "homes" its X, Y, and Z axes. There is no limit
switch -- motor stop board -- for either extruder stepper motor.

BTW, these limit switches -- generally referred to as the "endstops" or
"endstop switches" -- do not directly stop the motors. Instead, they
send a signal back to the microprocessor. The firmware in the microprocessor
checks for the presence of the signal and if it is being asserted, then
will not advance the motor in the direction indicated by that switch.
(BTW, "asserting" here means sending a 0V signal. When the switch isn't
triggered, a 5V signal is sent. So, not-triggered is HIGH and triggered
is LOW. Just wanted to mention that in case you actually test with a
logic probe.)

Dan

[Bruce Kinsey]

Thanks All.  

This is embarrassing, but after putting the Replicator on its back, pulling and checking the cables and their connections, testing the machine, then pulling the boards and putting them back (without switching because I chickened out for the reason I stated earlier). I thought I'd better put everything back together again and give it one last try before actually switching the boards.

You guessed it, Everything worked.  I had already tested the machine after pulling and checking the cables and connectors with no change, so other than removing the motors, the only other thing I did was to pull the stepper boards and put them back in again.  The pins may have corroded and the action of pulling and replacing the boards cleaned them, or something else I unknowingly touched or moved cleared the issue.  Lucky I took the time to test my last alteration.

The lesson for me is; I'll be sure to test every change, even adjustments, when looking for the cause of something I know nothing about, even if I have to rebuild and disassemble the printer every time. 

Thanks to all for your guidance.  I'll try to post something less frustrating in the future.

bfk

[Ryan Carlyle]

Just FYI, you'll melt the plastic carriage before you overheat these stepper motors. It's never the motor :-)

[TobyCWood]

OO! I melted my carriage!! A long time back when I got my first spool of Nylon! Thanks to Carl Raffle I now have an akucarrige!!
Sorry... off topic... DOH!