No travel moves above certain layer?

[DieselOx]

We have a Replicator 2 all stock parts (some replaced, but nothing upgraded), and it keeps failing about right where the purple travel moves stop connecting the separate parts in the image below.

We've had other problems, think we have a failing board, but single smaller prints are working. Any ideas?



We really don't care enough to do any upgrades, we're getting a new industrial printer in a few weeks, just trying to nurse this if we can.

[TobyCWood]

You're clogging during retractions for travel. It could be caused by a number of settings or extruder issues. Post everything here for us to see. Filament, temps, retraction setting, speeds, age of the machine, pic of the extruder feeder, etc. the info you give us the more likely the people here can help.
I also suggest you look at past posts. This happens frequently.

[DieselOx]

Retraction 1.3mm (default), all default settings:  except set extruder to 215C (was getting a lot of stringing between travel moves). Rafts on, get a lot of curling of model corners, 12mm wide helps. Supports on.

Makerbot PLA, 1.77mm, measures about right. We set filament dia to actual if it's off by more than .05mm, and we keep it sealed with a dryer pouch in the bag, except when printing, and we are trying to dry out rolls that have been out a few days, leave them in a dry environmental chamber at about 125F overnight (just started that, not tested yet).

We were using Makerbot Desktop, worked a bit better (all settings default, but turned on supports and rafts), due to Makerbot Print putting supports in wrong. Last update seems to have fixed it though.

New parts: extrude head (heater and nozzle), drive wheel, drive wheel clamp parts, printed new print head chassis, was warped.

Fan drivers seem flaky, don't seem to respond to settings. Heat was falling down around 210C when set at default 230C after about a 2 hr print, then cutting out. Then we replaced all parts above, and it's holding temp OK, seems like.  Would also jam the filament, and sit there and grind in one spot. All sounds like a dying board, from what I read here.

Thanks,

Chris
pics in a second

[DieselOx]

 

[TobyCWood]

Do you get extrusions on load that go straight down or does it curl upward or to the side?

[chris oxford]

Extrusions on load always look good, after new nozzle. We increased support density, and it was looking good so far when we left work today. 

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_____________________________
From: TobyCWood <andyc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 3:33 PM
Subject: [makerbot-users] Re: No travel moves above certain layer?
To: Makerbot Users <makerbo...@googlegroups.com>

[DieselOx]

So now it failed again. Clogging. We have not messed with retraction settings ever.
Not sure where to even start with it.

[Jetguy]

Did nobody see the fan is pointing the wrong flipping way??? No wonder you jam. Label on fan must point at heatsink not face out through grill

[Jetguy]

Yes it matters and is the cause.

[Jetguy]

"Makerbot replicator 2, stops extruding "

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/makerbot-users/fan$20incorrect%7Csort:relevance/makerbot-users/ETdtp5HyW0M/AqYCx6lxBAAJ

[TobyCWood]

+1.
Fan backwards

[chris oxford]

Thanks all!!! I will get this fixed! We have had about 5 different people working on this, no one person really owns it, so we don't have one expert.  Thanks again. 

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From: makerbo...@googlegroups.com <makerbo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of TobyCWood <andyc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:14:25 PM
To: Makerbot Users

Subject: [makerbot-users] Re: No travel moves above certain layer?

 

+1.
Fan backwards

[DieselOx]

OK, an engineer caught the fan direction yesterday afternoon, we got it all cleaned out and running well, and now had a problem where the software added support that was so tiny, there was more retraction going on than extrusion right there. Caused a clog that cleared itself, but the print was too broken to use.

He re did support settings to eliminate the little scraps of support, and he set the retraction to 1.0mm, but in the MakerBot Print or older Desktop software, we can't find any retraction speed settings.

Anyway, started another one. Meeting Friday to finalize our decision on a new $25k printer, prints just about anything, including high temp waterproof PPS. Can't wait. Might just toss the Rep 2.

[Jetguy]

Pretty sure any number of users would take that rep 2 off your hands and have it printing.

[TobyCWood]

You may find yourself in the exact same position with a $25K machine as you were with the Rep2. Your only advantage will be you will have a service rep who will be more then happy to come and do it all for you so long as you make the monthly service payments. Good Luck.

[chris oxford]

We are well aware, and are seriously considering other options as well. But high temp and waterproof are the main drivers, with industrial quality components and validation a close second.

There is a huge gap between $5000 semi-pro (mostly DIY) printers, and $25k and up industrial units, which either have limited track record, or iffy quality, or crazy maintenance contracts with closed ecosystems (like the StrataSys). Honestly having a hard time ge
tting our Engineering Dept to pull the trigger on anything. We want it all.

[TobyCWood]

Waterproof? As in the part being water tight??? That may be asking a lot of most of the machines which attempt to do it all for you.

When you use a big expensive "Industrial" machine they get most reliability through control of the variability of Use cases. The more Use cases the machine meets the more expensive you can expect it to be.. not just initial purchase but also mostly in cost of ownership. If you are looking for a machine that will use almost any material, automatically generate perfect parts and not breakdown... well... be prepared to pay a heckalot more then an initial $25K. The $10K and under FDM machines out there (I'm thinking F400 here and NOT i3 and definitely not Makerbot) will not automatically print perfect parts. The human has to have some skill.

In an "Engineering Dept" this should naturally be understood. Requirements drive design and cost. You want plug and play? Then ya gotta pay. 

[chris oxford]

Yes, the part being watertight. 3NTR does it. Material withstands 210C.

Nothing is automatic, we know. We have people programming G Codes on tool paths for machining centers, we can figure stuff out, and we just want something worth the effort.

That aside, if we can get a Fusion 3 for $5k that does 90% v. the 3NTR for $25k and a maintenance agreement that's equal to a new Fusion 3 every 2 years, it's a tough call. Our main cost at the moment is waterproof/heatproof parts, so taking that out of the equation makes even a $5k machine still quite expensive, we're still going to be buying expensive parts outside.

[Ryan Carlyle]

What material are they printing that's good to 210C? PEEK? From the photos on their website, none of their printers will survive high enough heated chamber temps to do PEEK well (ie large parts without warping). 

[chris oxford]

I think that's it. We have a sample part on our desk. About 5 x 5 x 5 inches. The one part measured out a bit out of spec, not as close as other materials, but very usable. That was printed by local sales reps, no tweaking, so with some experience, we could probably do better. The standard parts are much closer.

The print head has a limit >400C. 

[Ryan Carlyle]

What I'm seeing is that they have belts and air-cooled stepper motors inside their chamber. That basically limits the chamber temp to ~85C. Ideal chamber temp for PEEK is more like 130C. You CAN print PEEK is an 85C chamber, but it's going to have a lot of residual warping stress that weakens it. That might be fine if you just need a "form and function" part, but don't rely on printed parts in load-bearing applications without extensive load-testing of sample pieces printed using identical settings. 

[chris oxford]

Thanks for the help. Looking it up, they have a custom PPS they call nPower. It's cheaper than PEEK or Ultem. Still spendy, but not as bad.

And we have tested the part under heat, load and wet, and it performs adequately to check flows and heat transfer in our application. In fact, the rapid prototypes we got outsourced could not hold up to the heat for long, hose connections broke. Forget what process those were, something like an SLA, just waterproof, not heat proof.