[discuss] Incubator project proposal - OpenOfficeMouse
OOmouse
OpenOffice.org, particularly Writer and Impress. It is my belief that
application interface efficiency can be pursued in other ways than new
variations on hotkeys, pull-down menus, and icon toolbars. We are
planning to release the source code for the mouse software we have
written and would like to do so as an OpenOffice.org project rather than
as an independent OSS project as a means of contributing to the
community. This is a request for review of the proposal to establish
the setup and customization software for the OpenOfficeMouse as an
OpenOffice.org open source development project.
The OpenOfficeMouse mouse is designed specifically for use with
OpenOffice and incorporates OOo 3.1 usage data for its default button
assignments. The software presently allows complete customization of
the mouse's 18 buttons, scroll wheel, and analog joystick. Additional
functionality includes double-click assignments for all 18 buttons as
well as the ability to use the joystick as a keyboard with 4, 8, or 16
assignable key commands. Version 1.0 of the software is already
functional for Windows operating systems and the code will be released
under the Gnu Lesser General Public License (LGPLv3). The mouse
possesses 512k flash memory, supports 64 on-mouse application profiles,
and 1024-character macros. The software is written in C++ using Qt
library and uses .svg format for all graphics. The most pressing need
is for a library for sending and receiving commands according to the HID
standard in order to provide full Linux and OS/X support.
More information about the OpenOfficeMouse can be found at
www.openofficemouse.com. The OpenOfficeMouse will be publicly
introduced at OOoCon next month.
Thank you,
Theo
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Alexandro Colorado
> I am the designer of the OpenOfficeMouse and a long-time user of
> OpenOffice.org, particularly Writer and Impress. It is my belief that
> application interface efficiency can be pursued in other ways than new
> variations on hotkeys, pull-down menus, and icon toolbars. We are planning
> to release the source code for the mouse software we have written and would
> like to do so as an OpenOffice.org project rather than as an independent OSS
> project as a means of contributing to the community. This is a request for
> review of the proposal to establish the setup and customization software for
> the OpenOfficeMouse as an OpenOffice.org open source development project.
> The OpenOfficeMouse mouse is designed specifically for use with OpenOffice
> and incorporates OOo 3.1 usage data for its default button assignments. The
> software presently allows complete customization of the mouse's 18 buttons,
> scroll wheel, and analog joystick. Additional functionality includes
> double-click assignments for all 18 buttons as well as the ability to use
> the joystick as a keyboard with 4, 8, or 16 assignable key commands.
> Version 1.0 of the software is already functional for Windows operating
> systems and the code will be released under the Gnu Lesser General Public
> License (LGPLv3). The mouse possesses 512k flash memory, supports 64
> on-mouse application profiles, and 1024-character macros. The software is
> written in C++ using Qt library and uses .svg format for all graphics. The
> most pressing need is for a library for sending and receiving commands
> according to the HID standard in order to provide full Linux and OS/X
> support.
wow sounds cool. Would love to see this shown in Italy.
>
> More information about the OpenOfficeMouse can be found at
> www.openofficemouse.com. The OpenOfficeMouse will be publicly introduced at
> OOoCon next month.
>
> Thank you,
> Theo
>
>
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Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
IM: j...@jabber.org
Sophie
+1 for your incubator
Kind regards
Sophie
Elizabeth Matthis
On 10/12/09 21:04, OOmouse wrote:
[...]
> The OpenOfficeMouse mouse is designed specifically for use with
> OpenOffice and incorporates OOo 3.1 usage data for its default button
> assignments.
Just a note on the usage data in case anyone is wondering which data
that is. The usage data Theo is referring to is from the User Feedback
Program.
See more about this program in today' blog post from Frank Loehmann:
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/impress_click_map_what_s
The software presently allows complete customization of
> the mouse's 18 buttons, scroll wheel, and analog joystick. Additional
> functionality includes double-click assignments for all 18 buttons as
> well as the ability to use the joystick as a keyboard with 4, 8, or 16
> assignable key commands. Version 1.0 of the software is already
> functional for Windows operating systems and the code will be released
> under the Gnu Lesser General Public License (LGPLv3). The mouse
> possesses 512k flash memory, supports 64 on-mouse application profiles,
> and 1024-character macros. The software is written in C++ using Qt
> library and uses .svg format for all graphics. The most pressing need
> is for a library for sending and receiving commands according to the HID
> standard in order to provide full Linux and OS/X support.
>
> More information about the OpenOfficeMouse can be found at
> www.openofficemouse.com. The OpenOfficeMouse will be publicly
> introduced at OOoCon next month.
Very exciting stuff.
+1 for incubator project
>
> Thank you,
> Theo
Thank you for this innovative addition to OOo.
Best regards,
Liz
OOmouse
The User Feedback Program has been amazingly useful. It's given us a
much better understanding of how people actually use the OOo
applications rather than forcing us to theorize about it. For example,
in Writer, people are 5.2x more likely to use the toolbar icon to Bold
text than they are to use the hotkey. However, they're 3.8x more likely
to use the context menu or the hotkey to Cut text than they are to use
the toolbar icon. Since hotkeys are faster than toolbars and Bold is
used 5.4x more often than Cut, this tells us that it's more important to
assign a button in a more prominent position to Bold than we do to Cut.
Of course, the users can assign any function to any button they like,
but the information is very useful in creating the defaults. In other
news, we tested the OOmouse with a Mac for the first time this evening.
While we will definitely need a little software to be written in order
for OS/X to recognize the other buttons, the good news is that the basic
L1 and R1 buttons worked without a hitch.
Thanks for the thumbs up, Sophie and Alexandro. FYI: we will have a
mouse or two to show in Orvieto.
With regards,
Theo
Juergen Schmidt
for new incubator projects the main question for me is, if there is any
real relation and benefit for our project. In case of this mouse i am
not sure and i don't really see it. It is a piece of hardware with very
flexible configuration options. Not more and not less. Ok one of the
pre-configured profiles was created based on some OOo user tracking
information but that's it. It is not OOo specific and can be used with
many other applications.
For me it is no incubator project. For me it is a clever marketing
strategy and nothing more. Probably there are other ways to support such
things and it can be evaluated in a different context if necessary and
wanted.
We should simply ask us what we would expect from a new incubator
project. In which direction would it develop further? I personally don't
see there huge opportunities.
It is more natural that we will support modern and new hardware like the
new generation of touch pads which will also allow nice features ...
Sorry but it doesn't really convince me and from my point of view a no
for this new project.
Just my 2 cents
Juergen
OOmouse wrote:
> I am the designer of the OpenOfficeMouse and a long-time user of
> OpenOffice.org, particularly Writer and Impress. It is my belief that
> application interface efficiency can be pursued in other ways than new
> variations on hotkeys, pull-down menus, and icon toolbars. We are
> planning to release the source code for the mouse software we have
> written and would like to do so as an OpenOffice.org project rather than
> as an independent OSS project as a means of contributing to the
> community. This is a request for review of the proposal to establish
> the setup and customization software for the OpenOfficeMouse as an
> OpenOffice.org open source development project.
> The OpenOfficeMouse mouse is designed specifically for use with
> OpenOffice and incorporates OOo 3.1 usage data for its default button
> assignments. The software presently allows complete customization of
> the mouse's 18 buttons, scroll wheel, and analog joystick. Additional
> functionality includes double-click assignments for all 18 buttons as
> well as the ability to use the joystick as a keyboard with 4, 8, or 16
> assignable key commands. Version 1.0 of the software is already
> functional for Windows operating systems and the code will be released
> under the Gnu Lesser General Public License (LGPLv3). The mouse
> possesses 512k flash memory, supports 64 on-mouse application profiles,
> and 1024-character macros. The software is written in C++ using Qt
> library and uses .svg format for all graphics. The most pressing need
> is for a library for sending and receiving commands according to the HID
> standard in order to provide full Linux and OS/X support.
>
> More information about the OpenOfficeMouse can be found at
> www.openofficemouse.com. The OpenOfficeMouse will be publicly
> introduced at OOoCon next month.
>
> Thank you,
Bruce Martin
I just received your message in [discuss] about the open office mouse. As
well as that of another person who didn't see it as particularly
OpenOfficeMouse germane.
I have also seen your first page of the OpenOfficeMouse website.
IMHO:
The idea of a mouse that does more is good, but what it does and its
potential field of applicability are where the controversy surely will
arise.
I remember myself having uploaded somewhere the idea of a mouse that was
hardware versatile, but the objectives for it were quite different. It was
not for gamers, nor was it any more dedicated to any operating system that
the most basic mouse that could be found. All the variations were purely
hardware.
The reason for this was that I wanted the speed to be hardware controlled so
that it could be controlled, and slowed down during use in a BIOS session or
during the initial loading of an operating system. Also this would make it
totally independent of both the operating system and all software running on
any platform that would work with the most basic, standard mouse around.
Such a device also would have significant potential to help handicapped
users.
Hence it would use standard, basic software that comes with the operating
system, and appear identical to that basic mouse to the machine.
Thinking further, this idea would not really need to be a mouse itself, but
an adapter box that would plug between the actual mouse or trackball and the
mouse port, which could be PS-2, USB or RS-232.
I am an electronic technician with an overall background of almost 50 years.
I have an old trackball here that is a bit like that. In the days of 16 bit
windows, I purchased this for $CDN 129.95 plus tax. It is known as the
roller mouse and was made in California. However this device only connects
RS-232, typical for that time.
I am currently using it on an old 16 bit machine I have that I still use
occasionally when working with/recuperating data that comes from the DOS
era, such as stuff done in Generic CADD or Ashton-Tate's Framework IV.
On another occasion, I remember hardware modifying a mouse to make the
buttons operate with foot pedals. The prototype worked, but I found the foot
pedals did not marry with physical coordination as well as I would have
liked.
About that critic:
I got the impression that the critic would have preferred a project that had
no potential for use outside of Open Office. He was being very marketing
conscious and proprietary-oriented in the interest of using the idea as an
open office "selling" tool. (I say "selling" even though Open Office is
free, because his object is to "sell" potential users to commit their time
to downloading and learning to use Open Office.)
The other problem:
18 buttons on a mouse sound very versatile, but they would cause a huge
physical coordination problem for many. Fancy keyboards have a plethora of
programmable buttons, and they abound in the marketplace at low prices
because of their market penetration. Personally, since I often have to work
on other peoples' computers, I focus on making the best use of whatever is
there at the time, and making my own templates, etc that I carry with me on
the road in an external hard drive that will run either USB or FireWire. (I
prefer Firewire when it is available since it demands less of the processor
and runs more stably.)
When Microsoft in its early days went for a 2 button mouse as opposed to the
MAC's
1-button, there were those people then who saw this as a bad idea. The
argument was that it was not natural or intuitive to the human body.
Personally, I find 2 buttons OK, but what software people try and do with
the use of the mouse is often too much.
In either case the limitation is neither hardware nor software, but the
human body.
As an older person (close to 65 years old), I find physical coordination is
more of a challenge than it was when I was younger. Also in the majority of
cases eyesight, after the age of 40 or so, starts to gradually degrade.
These physical limitations also need to be respected.
When I buy a cellphone, I look for the (physically) biggest one, and abhor
the market placing too much attention on smallness to suit the young
people's mad attraction to gadgets for often wrongful reasons (such as
responding to peer pressure or "keeping up with the Jones'es", with little
responsibility for the value of money.) This is a simple example of the
unsociable marketing that so often abounds.
It has long been known that there are places in the marketing-related design
aspects of a technological produce where an industrial psychologist can play
a valuable role in the development team.
Best Regards all,
Bruce Martin
Quebec, Canada
Hi,
Just my 2 cents
Juergen
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14:39:00
Juergen Schmidt
i think you misunderstand me. First of all openofficemouse is not my
project and i have no interest in it. It might be helpful for people and
maybe especially for people with diabilities. But that is and was not my
point.
We talk here about an incubator project for OpenOffice.org the software
project. And in fact of this i don't see a real benefit for this mouse
project. There is nothing special that is worth to keep it as a sub
project under the OpenOffice.org umbrella.
It is simply a commercial product where the company want to use the
OpenOffice.org brand to promote it.
It might be cool and fancy, yes. But i look on the benefit for our
project and i don't see one.
But hey it's just my personal opinion
Juergen
Bruce Martin
It is possible that I mistook somebody's identity. I see that [discuss] had
a lot of participants and it is a very plausible mistake.
Also, my idea was not intended to be directly related to open office or any
particular operating system. It is intended as a generic hardware accessory
that would be nice to see, but I do not have the capital to even start to
develop it.
At most, I might make eventually myself a prototype for my own use, unless
somebody uses my idea and commercialises it at an acceptable price and with
adequate support.
The mouse speed can be a nuisance in Windows, prior to XP, in Linux (several
distributions) and also in op sys installations.
As I said, this is not something that needs to be a physical part of a mouse
or trackball, but in a separate box, as a separate product. Mice and
trackballs are too small by nature to suit this degree of versatility.
A basic electronic project box, such as made by Hammond or Bud Radio would
be more suitable and a far simpler manufacturing approach.
And now I am off to chase more nuisance parts from the local parts store.
BTW Where is Sun located? (I suppose somewhere in the U.S.?)
Best Regards,
Bruce M.
Robert Derman
> ReHi Juergen:
>
> It is possible that I mistook somebody's identity. I see that [discuss] had
> a lot of participants and it is a very plausible mistake.
>
> Also, my idea was not intended to be directly related to open office or any
> particular operating system. It is intended as a generic hardware accessory
> that would be nice to see, but I do not have the capital to even start to
> develop it.
>
> At most, I might make eventually myself a prototype for my own use, unless
> somebody uses my idea and commercialises it at an acceptable price and with
> adequate support.
>
> The mouse speed can be a nuisance in Windows, prior to XP, in Linux (several
> distributions) and also in op sys installations.
>
> As I said, this is not something that needs to be a physical part of a mouse
> or trackball, but in a separate box, as a separate product. Mice and
> trackballs are too small by nature to suit this degree of versatility.
>
> A basic electronic project box, such as made by Hammond or Bud Radio would
> be more suitable and a far simpler manufacturing approach.
>
> And now I am off to chase more nuisance parts from the local parts store.
>
> BTW Where is Sun located? (I suppose somewhere in the U.S.?)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce M.
>
Cor Nouws
Unless other information makes me change my mind, I support Juergens
point of view,
Cor
Juergen Schmidt wrote (9-11-2009 13:29)
> for new incubator projects the main question for me is, if there is any
> real relation and benefit for our project. In case of this mouse i am
> not sure and i don't really see it. It is a piece of hardware with very
> flexible configuration options. Not more and not less. Ok one of the
> pre-configured profiles was created based on some OOo user tracking
> information but that's it. It is not OOo specific and can be used with
> many other applications.
>
> For me it is no incubator project. For me it is a clever marketing
> strategy and nothing more. Probably there are other ways to support such
> things and it can be evaluated in a different context if necessary and
> wanted.
>
> We should simply ask us what we would expect from a new incubator
> project. In which direction would it develop further? I personally don't
> see there huge opportunities.
>
> It is more natural that we will support modern and new hardware like the
> new generation of touch pads which will also allow nice features ...
>
> Sorry but it doesn't really convince me and from my point of view a no
> for this new project.
>
> Just my 2 cents
--
Cor Nouws
- nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact
- Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council
Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl
Denny Hanson
ReHi Juergen:
Best Regards,
Bruce M.
Juergen Schmidt
> +1 for incubator project.
>
> Nice to see a hardware with OpenOffice.org labelled on it.
this is not really a good argument for a project and we should take it a
little bit more serious.
If you vote a project please think about the consequences it might have.
We are a software project and no hardware project.
Let them pay 20000 per year and they can maybe use the logo, i don't
know if that would be possible at all. It's just an idea.
But please not in the way to accept a project where we will probably see
no real progress or work and give them the opportunity to use the logo
for free.
I would of course kill or remove projects where no activity is going on.
Or better i would consolidate the number of projects generally.
Juergen
Bruce Martin
In your recent message, you side "you have the wrong address".
I am a bit confused. Who had the wrong address for what? Were you referring
to Wanna KO, or me (Bruce Martin?)
Best Regards,
Thorsten Behrens
> I would of course kill or remove projects where no activity is going
> on. Or better i would consolidate the number of projects generally.
>
/me would be glad to see that happening ...
-- Thorsten
André Schnabel
Thorsten Behrens schrieb:
> Juergen Schmidt wrote:
>
>> I would of course kill or remove projects where no activity is going
>> on. Or better i would consolidate the number of projects generally.
>>
>>
> Something for your CC agenda? ;)
>
Actually it is on the agenda:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Agenda
AI 8. Proposal for handling incubator and NLC projects
ATM it is up to the cathegory lead (for NLC and incubator) to remove
projects from theses catheories. But this is not document, and there is
no info, how this process should be triggered (and by whom).
If you want to poke the Council, just suggest some projects to be removed :D
Andrￜ
Bernd Eilers
>
> Unless other information makes me change my mind, I support Juergens
> point of view,
>
I also support Juergens Point of View
-1 for OpenOfficeMouse incubator project
> Cor
>
Kind regards,
Bernd Eilers
Kay Ramme
the OOo project.
Regards
Kay
Juergen Schmidt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> for new incubator projects the main question for me is, if there is any
> real relation and benefit for our project. In case of this mouse i am
> not sure and i don't really see it. It is a piece of hardware with very
> flexible configuration options. Not more and not less. Ok one of the
> pre-configured profiles was created based on some OOo user tracking
> information but that's it. It is not OOo specific and can be used with
> many other applications.
>
> For me it is no incubator project. For me it is a clever marketing
> strategy and nothing more. Probably there are other ways to support such
> things and it can be evaluated in a different context if necessary and
> wanted.
>
> We should simply ask us what we would expect from a new incubator
> project. In which direction would it develop further? I personally don't
> see there huge opportunities.
>
> It is more natural that we will support modern and new hardware like the
> new generation of touch pads which will also allow nice features ...
>
> Sorry but it doesn't really convince me and from my point of view a no
> for this new project.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
OOmouse
While I don't disagree with most of Juergen's conclusions, I would like
to point out that the proposed project is the SOFTWARE we've written for
the mouse, not the mouse hardware itself. To the extent that the
OpenOfficeMouse concept was a marketing scheme, that has become
irrelevant at this point since I have already agreed to the Community's
request to change the name of the hardware as well as the color scheme.
We will be making a public announcement about this in two weeks or so.
We still plan to utilize the mouse as a vehicle for distributing the OOo
application suite and we remain enthusiastic supporters of the
OpenOffice.org Community. And to be honest, I'm still not sure which
misconception amazed me more, the idea that OpenOffice.org was building
mouse hardware or the notion that the mouse only worked with
OpenOffice.org applications.
Anyhow, after reading some of the comments on the proposal, it has
become increasingly clear to me that we of the OpenOfficeMouse
development team have failed to understand some of the differences
between the way the Community projects operate compared to the way other
open source projects do. Our reasoning was extremely simple and
straightforward. We intend to release the software as open source when
it is solid and fully functional, and we know it definitely has utility
for other input devices that go well beyond our little mouse. Since the
Community has a laudable commitment to addressing accessibility issues
and was also contemplating major changes to its user interface at the
time we first contacted John, Florian, and Elizabeth, we thought that
our code might prove useful for at least one, and possibly both, of the
groups working on those things. Essentially, we were thinking, "hey,
this stuff works and if you've got a use for it, then please feel free
to take it." While we do see how the software could be utilized to help
further certain Community goals relating to interfaces, I will not
hesitate to admit that we do not have any grand vision for the best way
the Community can make that happen. So, in light of my improved
understanding of the nature of the various OpenOffice.org projects, I
find that I cannot disagree with those who don't see it as meeting the
parameters of a proper Incubator Project.
So, perhaps the consensus will be that it simply doesn't fit. That's
all right, but in any case, I would like the Community to understand
that the proposal was more a consequence of the mouse than a marketing
scheme for it and that it was mostly driven by our desire to contribute
to a project from which we have derived great benefit.
Cor Nouws
OOmouse wrote (18-11-2009 22:14)
> [...]
> So, perhaps the consensus will be that it simply doesn't fit. That's
> all right, but in any case, I would like the Community to understand
> that the proposal was more a consequence of the mouse than a marketing
> scheme for it and that it was mostly driven by our desire to contribute
> to a project from which we have derived great benefit.
Thanks for your further thoughts and the understanding.
Fair enough for me if you explain what the most important drive was (and
is). After all, if that fits with a good marketing scheme, there is
nothing against it.
Can you pls inform if the project/software is hosted somewhere else?
Best regards,
Cor
--
Cor Nouws
- nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact
- Community Contributor Representative in the Community Council
Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold Fuchs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwriter for example) that was a "chording"
keyboard. It allowed one to type text one handed by assigning a different
combination of its 6 keys ("chord", like on a piano) to each character.
Many
people claimed to be able to type text faster using one of these than using
a conventional keyboard.
Does the OpenOfficeMouse support this idea? Should it? Why not?
--
Harold Fuchs
London. England
Harold Fuchs
--
Harold Fuchs
London, England