Unsubscribe vs. Bounce in Webhooks

[Bob]

We recently issued a campaign to a list for which we have a webhooks
program. When this program gets an UNSUBSCRIBE request type, it logs a
record in our database that records "unsubscribe." When the program
gets a CLEANED request type it logs a record with "bounce."

I have two concerns:

The MailChimp interface states that there are 11 unsubscribes since
last campaign. A close look at the list of those who unsubscribed
shows that in fact there were 16. Why the difference?

Of these 16 webhook events, 5 appear to have been conveyed with
request type CLEANED instead of UNSUBSCRIBED. Are there any "issues"
with the webhook support that would cause this? Is it possible that
BOTH and unsubscribe AND a cleaned request type might be conveyed to
the webhook (with the latter following the former)?

- Bob Carver

[jesse]

"cleaned" means they hard bounced:

http://kb.mailchimp.com/article/whats-the-difference-between-hard-and-soft-bounce-backs

You can check the "reason" field of the webhook to determine if that
was due to actual bouncing or from reporting the campaign as spam
(abuse-related).

If you are looking at the List directly it may very well include
unsubs that the campaign reports don't since the unsub can be done
without being tied to a campaign.

Finally, no, you shouldn't see both "cleaned" and "unsub" webhooks
come for the same email address.


jesse

[Bob Carver]

Thanks, Jesse.

I was already aware of the difference between unsubscribed, soft bounces,
and hard bounces ("cleaned").

Perhaps I simply erred in the presentation of my questions.

I am looking at the LIST, not a CAMPAIGN.

The first page displayed when the list is selected shows two gray boxes
beneath "History" and three gray boxes beneath "Since Last Campaign."

The second gray box under "Since Last Campaign" says there've been 11
unsubs.

I click the "view" link beneath the 11 and presume that what I'm then seeing
is a list of all unsubscribed members.

I peruse this list, conveniently sorted by last change date, and can now
count 17 members with a change date after the last campaign was issued, Feb
22 @ 8:14AM. The first unsubscribe occurred at 8:27 AM.

So, I have one LIST page telling me there have been 11 unsubscribes since
the last campaign, but the LIST itself shows that there have been 17
unsubscribes since the last campaign.

Why the difference?

I can also verify that I received 11 webhook Unsubscribe posts, but not 17.

So there is a mysterious 6 members in the "unsubs" list, for which
unsubscribe webhook posts were not received.

The 11 for which webhook unsubscribe posts were received exactly line up
with the 11 of 17 in the unsubs list that have more than one star in the
member rating column. I.e., it would seem that those with a single star are
(1) not being included in the count of unsubscribes on the List summary
page, and (2) are not reported as unsubscribes to our webook program
(notwithstanding that the last column of the "unsubs" list is entitled "date
unsubscribed").

In fact, all 5 were instead reported as "cleaned" to the webhook program.
This is fine, but why, then, are they in the "unsubs" list and not the
"cleaned" list?

/ Bob

http://kb.mailchimp.com/article/whats-the-difference-between-hard-and-soft-b
ounce-backs

jesse

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MailChimp API Discuss" group.
To post to this group, send email to mailchimp-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
mailchimp-api-di...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/mailchimp-api-discuss?hl=en.

[jesse]

Ah, I see, this has nothing to do with the API or Webhooks - you're
simply looking for clarification on what you are seeing inside the web
app. Any time that is the case you should contact support:

http://mailchimp.com/support/


jesse

> http://kb.mailchimp.com/article/whats-the-difference-between-hard-and...

[Bob Carver]

So, if I understand you correctly, the fact that I received 6 "cleaned"
webhook posts that appear should have been "unsubscribe" webhook posts "has
nothing to with ... Webhooks" ???

[jesse]

No. Webhooks fire when the actions they purport to notify you about
occur - I even went through our code to verify I didn't see anything
wonky specifically with the "unsub" and "cleaned" webhooks before my
initial reply.

What you're telling me is that something may be wonky in the reporting
interface in the web app.


jesse

[Robert C Carver]

Thanks, Jesse. I did follow your suggestion and contacted support. FYI, what they stated was that the "unsubs" count reflects those recipients that explicitly unsubscribed. Naturally this number is included in the list of unsubscribed recipients. However, also included in that list are those recipients who, instead of explicitly unsubscribing, declared the email to be spam. Such recipients are automatically unsubscribed and, hence, included in the list of unsubscribed recipients. While it seems to me there is some nomenclature issue here, at least I now understand the logic behind the discrepancy. I still suspect a webhook issue, but will await our next wave of emails to observe the results. To this end I've added some additional trace code/