Mahabharata Retellings and Other Sources

[rajeev]

I guess the first order of business would be to create a list of
sources and then decide which ones we will consult during
discussions. I am familiar with (and own) only the following sources:

1. Mahabharata (2 Vols.) Ramesh Menon, (Rupa & Co), 2004.
2. Mahabharata C. Rajagopalachari, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan (1979)

Ramesh Menon describes his version as a "modern prose retelling" and a
"modern rendering", with inputs from Kamala Subramaniam's retelling
and Kisari Mohan Ganguli's 12 volume translation.

I have access to Kisari Mohan Ganguli's translation. (The Mahabharata
of Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa / translated into English prose from the
original Sanskrit text by Kisari Mohan Ganguli.
Mahābhārata. New Delhi : Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers, 1991-2003.)

I also read the following a long time ago but don't have access to it
any longer:

3. The Mahabharata Kamala Subramaniam, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan

Here's a list of "Mahabharata Retellings": http://www.mahabharata-resources.org/retoldm.html

So go ahead and post your suggestions on sources/versions/retellings/
translations. We could also use any studies/writings/scholarly papers
on the Mahabharata that any of you may suggest.

[rajeev]

Kisari Mohan Ganguli's version is available online:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm

[Amit]

Namaskar Rajeev and others.

This is "kaffir".

So, I looked at the catalogs at the local library and while the
versions by C. Rajagopalachari and R.K. Narayan are available, those
are for "in library use" only. The version that's available for check
out is by Krishna Dharma, which seems to have got good reviews, so I
think I will go with that one, unless someone tells me that there's a
better version, and I'll try to locate it from other libraries in the
area.

Some background about me which might be helpful, and since we don't
know each other:
I was born and grew up in Rajasthan, went to college in Varanasi and
Boston, and currently live in Boston. While I devoured ACKs with a
passion in my childhood (along with Tintin, Enid Blyton, Hardy Boys..)
and read Ramayan and Mahabharat (abridged versions) in my teens, some
books by Osho Rajneesh after college, my interest in Sanaatan Dharm or
its philosophical underpinnings was nominal and whatever I'd imbibed
from the environment, and this interest mostly disappeared by college
years, to be replaced by Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, The Doors, Indian
Classical Music et al. The environment I grew up in was quite secular
and there weren't any elders around who were well-versed with Hindu
philosophy and willing to teach it.

My recent interest in it was awakened over the past five years after
coming across the California textbook controversy, reading an essay by
Aditi Banerjee, and reading the anti-Hindu stance of many, which I
found unfair. I decided to explore some of the Hindutva arguments on
my own, and found merit in many, based on my secular and liberal
values, which was surprising since reading the news reports in
mainstream media gave a different and opposite picture. Needless to
say, I am critical of the violence that the saffron brigade indulges
in, but to some extent, I understand why it happens - if their valid
arguments (not all) and drawing attention to what they see as threats
do not get support from the so-called intelligentsia and are dismissed
as regressive, or are ignored, it's natural to get angry.

I'd best describe myself as (re)discovering the Hindu aspect of my
identity. I've practiced Iyengar yoga in recent past as an adult, am
familiar with some basic yoga philosophy and Ayurveda (I've always had
an interest in it), and I'm looking forward to learning more from our
discussion.

Coming to reading and discussion, my preference and suggestion would
be to start from the beginning and sequentially discuss x chapters
(whatever we find in those chapters worth discussing) every month,
instead of jumping around. This will be helpful for me as I haven't
read Mahabharat in ~15 years, so it'll be good to refresh my memory.
If Rajeev can set some timetable/deadlines for reading and discussion,
that will provide some structure and discipline, and motivation to
read. But I'm also flexible and open to other suggestions on how to go
about it. I should get the book early next week, so should be ready
for the first discussion by the end of this month.

-Amit

[Pia]

Hi Amit & Rajeev:
Another great online source is here:
http://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/statement.html.

I believe this was a major project where they tried to compile the
different versions of the Sanskrit Mahabharata.

I'm Bengali, and from a family that was chock-full of scholars of
ancient Indian lit and philosophy and stuff, so Mahabharata was pretty
much compulsory reading :) There's a great bong children's version
written by Satyajit Ray's grandfather, that I must've read when I was
about 10 yrs old, and then I graduated to more 'adult' versions
(including the Kasiram Das version, which has a status similiar to
Tulsidas's Hindi Ramayan). My brother (Bekar) is currently embarked on
project of reading full translation of Sanskrit Mahabaharat in 'old'
Bengali. Old Bengali is sort of a halfway between today's modern
Bengali and actual Sanskrit, and because we both read old Bengali
fluently, we can sort of 'extrapolate' and grasp some Sanskrit from
there! Otherwise neither of us have any formal training in Sanskrit.

I have never actually read a Mahabharata translation in English, so
this will be interesting! Though I suppose I'll keep on comparing the
translated versions to the Bengali translations !!!!!

Regarding further self-introduction, I am a prof at UAB in public
health, and in my spare time I run an Indian dance school. And I met
Rajeev when he was in ISI, though I probably wouldn't be able to
recognize him today :)

Cheers
Pia

[rajeev]

Hi Amit,

Good to make your acquaintance. I've changed your status to
Administrator. I'm still waiting for Pia and Bekaar BokBok to sign
up.

A little about me: Telugu by mother tongue, grew up in northern
Calcutta, usual Catholic school education, undergraduate and graduate
studies in statistics and computer science. I've read a whole lot of
stuff, ACKs too, but also Indrajal/DC/Marvel/Tintin/Asterix/other
Uderzo stuff/commando/etc., lots of sci fi and a minor amount of
actual "literature". Almost exclusively Western authors but of late
been trying to find interesting Indian authors in English. Recent
ones: Adiga, Amitav Ghosh, Samit Basu, etc. I have absolute zero
knowledge of Indian authors in any other languages, though I'm trying
to rectify that nowadays mostly through translations and teaching
myself a bit of vernacular.

It took me a while to get interested in Hindu-related stuff; large
sections of my family are practicing Hindus but I'm a little
"westernized" with interest in Hinduism restricted to ACKs. I've
picked up and read a few English translations of the Gita and
Upanishads but those texts have always been a little too dense for
me. But I've always been interested in both the Ramayana and the
Mahabharata.

I think I will let Pia set the pace of the discussion, since she will
lead the discussions. Your idea of setting goals for each month
sounds promising. Another possibility is to pick topics first and
base readings around those topics (so we might be non-sequential).

Cheers,
Rajeev.

[rajeev]

Hi Pia,

Welcome! I've just changed your status to Administrator.

Looks like we are getting started. Just waiting for Bekaar BokBok
now.

What do you suggest we start with? Reading some of the chapters
sequentially?

Cheers,
Rajeev.

[Anindya]

Aaaaaannnd FINALLY !!!! The long anticipated Bekaar is here, just when
you thought you'd start your bokbok without me :-)

Ok, so sis has already introduced me, and the Mahabharat I am reading.
(You should have seen the store-keeper's face when I said
I wanted to buy the Mahabharat for personal reading. Apparently, only
libraries buy copies nowadays.)

A bit more about me. I was Rajeev's classmate in college.
Then I went off to the US to do a PhD, then joined investment banking
for four years in London.
After successfully sinking the world economy as a result, I decided to
join academia ad teach other people how to do it. :-)
I'm now a prof at IIM Bangalore.

Reading tastes are mainly a very hefty dose of sci-fi/fantasy/
mythology and as sis mentioned Mahabharat, Ramayan, stories from the
Puranas etc pretty much run in the family, plus we had tons of access
to original texts or pretty scholarly translations.

What I really found enjoyable about the original Indian myths and
stories is that, they are, well, cool, and full of rather funky stuff.
What always strikes me very strongly is that they bear little
resemblance to the puritanized, dull-as-ditchwater versions that the
Hindutva-crowd and their sympathizers are peddling. I sometimes think
that if they realized the true content of some of the stories and
their messages, they might all just self-convert to Christianity from
sheer shock and outrage. :-) :-)

So, let's read the Mahabharata and find out. I think you'll be very
surprised,- pleasantly, I hope.

From my own experience with reading the Mahabharata, I would NOT
recommend reading it in a linear fashion.
The Mahabharata is rather like the Arabian nights. People start
telling a story, and the characters in that start telling each other
another story, and it goes on. Then suddenly somebody gets beheaded,
and you're like, "Wait, wait, what ?? Which level of the loop was I
on ???"
Sometimes a whole bunch of incidents will be summarized, and then
elaborated. Happens a lot in the war chapters,
For eg, right at the outset of Karnaparva, Sanjay goes, "And so after
two days of valiant fighting, the mighty Karna was slain by Arjuna..."
Dhritarashtra promptly faints away in shock, and I'm going, "Damn you,
that was supposed to come at the END."
Then they revive the old King, and Sanjay goes, "So, as I was saying,
after Drona died, Duryodhana made Karna the new senapati...." and so
on.
Those ancients had NO concept of slowly building up the tension to a
big climax !!

And TONS of stories are inserted in very unexpected places. For
example, there's the close of the war where Duryodhana is in hiding,
and the Panadavas are hunting around for him. And right in the middle
of that there's the entire story of Shiva and Parvati and the birth of
Karthika !!! The story ends, and Bhima starts fighting Duryodhana.

Reading the great epic doesn't feel much like reading a novel. Its
more like walking around in an ancient city, spotting little side
alleys and finding all sorts of surprises tucked in various corners. I
highly recommend it.

[Pia & Sanjeev]

>
> I think I will let Pia set the pace of the discussion, since she will
> lead the discussions.  Your idea of setting goals for each month
> sounds promising.  Another possibility is to pick topics first and
> base readings around those topics (so we might be non-sequential).

Hey:
That's a little risky, Rajeev. Come grant writing time, the discussion
will flag completely :(:( Plus its you and Amit who would have the
more interesting input, given you are reading it all after long gaps
and really bringing 'fresh eyes' to the whole thing, so to speak!

Also, I started looking at the online version (the one you posted and
I posted actually turns out to be the same, your link goes more
directly to the English translation. You and Amit should take a look
and see if its not too overwhelming for a 'first read'. Its a line by
line translation of the original ancient Sanskrit version, pretty
heavy stuff. Since I kind of knew the end of the various sub-stories
they were talking about (like Upamanyu), I could handle them, but if
you are new to it or rusty to it, it might need LOTS of caffeine :)
I'm actually tempted to suggest that we start with a simpler version
(that follows the plotlines more clearly), and then use this 'complete
and unabridged' version for further elaboration around that.

Read the first few sections of the Adi Parva and tell me if you think
that would be the better route!

Pia
Cheers
Pia

[Pia & Sanjeev]

>
> 1.  Mahabharata  (2 Vols.)  Ramesh Menon, (Rupa & Co), 2004.
> 2.  Mahabharata  C. Rajagopalachari, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan (1979)
>

Okay folks:
The Rajagopalacahri version is available online:
http://www.gita-society.com/bhagavad-gita-section3/mahabharata.pdf.
To me its a bit cliff-note-ish, it doesn't really draw the reader in.
Its also 'sanitized' (at least the online version is) -- no reference
to how births of Pandu and Dhritarashtra occurred, for example. But
its a good reference, though (with some interesting differences from
the original -- not to spoil the tale, but it actually has Karna
MISSING the mark at Draupadi's swayamvara !).

I'd recommend RK Narayana. I don't know if its online, its available
for about $8 from Amazon. His style is nice and pithy, and it IS like
reading a 'regular novel'. My recommendation would be read a chapter
from RK, and then once we start discussing (which in itself will
probably bring up points about 'different versions' of the stories
that we might have heard or read), we can dig further into translation
of the absolute original version which is the link Rajeev posted.

Let me know what you all think!
Pia

[Amit Virmani]

Oh, I don't want to read the "sanitized" version at all. I can handle salaciousness in our epics quite easily. :)

I'll take a look at the links, though when it comes to reading a book, I much prefer a paper one where I can feel it in my hands, and turn the pages. I'll try to get the RK Narayana version, along with the one by Krishna Dharma.

-Amit

2009/8/17 Pia & Sanjeev <piase...@gmail.com>

[rajeev]

One thing we can do is read different versions, referring to the line-
by-line online Sanskrit translation when necessary. That way we're
not held up if we don't have a particular version. I do agree the
online version is a little too detailed for ordinary reading. I think
I may use Ramesh Menon's version -- it's quite detailed, and besides I
already own it!

Let's all try to read Adi Parva from our individual sources. Then we
can start discussing and, if the discussions lead there, start looking
into related side-stories and the detailed translation. It might be a
good idea to make a note of any questions that pop into our heads
during the reading.

As far as a timetable is concerned, perhaps we could start with Adi
Parva. Don't you guys think whole Parva may be too long to read in
one go? Maybe Pia or Anindya can suggest which sections we should
read by the end of the month. We can put topics up for discussion
when we think of them -- as Anindya already did!

[Anindya]

Adi Parva is HUGE.

Just get to the parts about how the pandavas and previous generations
are born and there'll be plenty to discuss !! :-)