Nuc with lots of drones

[Matthew Hennek]

hey all

One of my several nucs i made this year is just crammed full of drones and I'm not sure if I can/should do anything about it and whether it's slowing the nucs buildup (feeding all those lazy drones). I would estimate that 25-50% of the bees are drones!

A few things:
-nuc is queen right (queen observed and has a good laying pattern of single egg non drone brood)
-it's a moderately strong double 5 frame deep nuc
-currently there's not a significant number of drone brood
-other than the high level of drones the nuc appears healthy

I'm really not sure what's going on here and I don't want to use this nuc for my own purposes or sell it without knowing what's going on.

I guess I could locate the queen, put a queen excluder under the bottom box and shake out all the other bees outside the hive but then these drones may just come back, clog up the excluder, die, and make a mess.

Thoughts?

[Paul Zelenski]

Where did all the drones come from? You're positive that the queen is laying a good pattern of worker brood? Usually if you have a hive overrun with drones, you have a queen problem. Did you have a full frame of drone brood or something when you made the split? I would figure out the cause before taking any drastic action.

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[Joseph Bessetti]

Maybe a neighboring hive evicted all it's drones and they're crashing in this nuc.  If that's the case I wouldn't worry about it.  They really don't eat much, and they're going to eating from one of your hives anyway even if you evict them.
 
I agree about making sure there isn't a queen problem.  Even a drone layer often lays a great pattern of eggs/larvae.  It's the domed caps on the worker comb that alerts you to the problem.

[Matthew Hennek]

Positive its worker brood (normal height). I marked the queen before introducing her so I know it's queen right.

The source may have been from a frame with lots of worker brood when I first made the split. Not sure.

I did forget to add that this hive did swarm a few weeks ago (I caught the swarm) so perhaps they took much of the workers with them skewing the ratio left in the hive.

Assuming the hive is just flush with drones and not necessarily producing more, should I just leave them be? It just seems like it's a drain on their resources.

[Joseph Bessetti]

Sounds like a couple possible causes.  A frame full of drones put in the split would certainly do it.
 
Honestly, drones really don't eat that much. It took a lot more resources to raise them.   If you evict them they will end up in another of your hives, where they will eat the same amount.  If you think of your apiary as a functional unit, it really doesn't matter where the drones eat.  It may even be beneficial to have them in a weaker hive because their metabolism produces some heat that may help keep the hive warm on a cool night.  I wouldn't worry about it. 
 
If you feel better evicting them go ahead.  I'd install a drone escape cone rather than shaking them out.  That way any newly emerged drones will also be able to get out.  I don't think you'll have much trouble with drones plugging the excluder trying to get back in.  When they can't get in they'll go to another hive.  Drones plugging an excluder trying to get out is the bigger issue, which is what the drone escape cone is for.
 
Joe
 

> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 07:55:29 -0700
> From: matthew...@gmail.com
> To: mad...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: Re: [madbees] Nuc with lots of drones
>

[Matthew Hennek]

Thanks joe, never heard of a drone escape cone until now. I'll look into it.

[jeanne hansen]

Because all my frames are initially foundationless, my bees have drawn drone cells where they wanted, and as many as they wanted. Now that I give these drawn combs to my packages and splits, most frames have some drone areas.

I have noticed that in the early season like this, the hives are "over run" with drones, but by fall, the number is much reduced, naturally.

Like Joe, I don't worry. Bees need drones. I want hive to make their own queens, and for this they need plenty of drones (preferably from my neighbors' hives.) Also, the drones really do help keep the brood warm, freeing up forages. They also buzz ferociously, warding off mammalian predators. Hives need drones, and mother nature knows how many.

"Don't sweat the small stuff!"

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714
608-244-5094

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/18/15, Joseph Bessetti <jbes...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [madbees] Nuc with lots of drones
To: "mad...@googlegroups.com" <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2015, 10:41 AM

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[Drew]

How much drone is too much? I Have a similar problem except with drone cells and brood mostly on newer foundationless frames. My understanding is that because the cells are larger the queen will keep laying drones unless they get filled with honey or pollen. There seem to be plenty if not a lot of drones in my hive at this point and I'm wondering if i need to do something and what that would be exactly? I didn't find the queen today (unmarked and all he drones didn't help) but i did 6 days ago.  

I just assumed it's ok to post this here since people are already discussing drones.

[Joseph Bessetti]

How many drones are too many?  That's a bit of a loaded question.
 
Some beekeepers see drones as wasted resources and space reducing profitability. 

 

Most beekeepers recognize that varroa are often preferentially attracted to drone cells and with the longer capped time period will produce more mated daughter mites, so limiting drone brood would seem to be a way to help limit varroa population growth. 
 
In the natural/treatment-free/small-cell beekeeping group that I participate in, 10-15% drone comb is frequently suggested as an upper limit.  

If you are committed to using foundationless frames then I don't really see where you have much choice.  The bees will stop making drone comb when they decide they have enough.  I try to keep the drone comb to the edges of the brood nest, where the bees usually make it in feral hives.

 

Joe

 

 

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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 12:09:36 -0700
From: drew...@gmail.com
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [madbees] Re: Nuc with lots of drones

How much drone is too much? I Have a similar problem except with drone cells and brood mostly on newer foundationless frames. My understanding is that because the cells are larger the queen will keep laying drones unless they get filled with honey or pollen. There seem to be plenty if not a lot of drones in my hive at this point and I'm wondering if i need to do something and what that would be exactly? I didn't find the queen today (unmarked and all he drones didn't help) but i did 6 days ago.  

I just assumed it's ok to post this here since people are already discussing drones.