getting them through the winter

[karuna]

At the last meeting I reported on a seminar I attended at the
University of Minnesota about keeping bees in winter climes. It was
specifically about over wintering hives in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I described a system they have invented for keeping hives warm in the
winter while still allowing for evaporation of excess moisture. They
do it by adding an inner cover of moisture transporting fiber board.
This keeps the wind out while allowing the water to evaporate. The
whole thing sounds very logical and their extension bee people think
it is the perfect solution to cold winter climates.

http://www.extension.org/pages/Wrapping_a_Colony_for_a_Northern_Winter

The U of M makes these inner covers out of a ¾ inch fiber board that
is specifically designed to wick moisture. The manufacturer, Bildrite
in International Falls, says they can ship us some of these sheets.


Here's the deal:

fiberboard sheets are 4'x4' which means 6 covers per sheet
sheets are $44 so each cover is about $7.35
minimum shipment is 60 sheets so we would need 350 orders to make it
happen.

That is a lot of covers but this is a big list so.... How many people
would be interested in how many winterizing inner covers at this
price?


James MacDonald

[Betsy True]

I've already made some out of homosote found at ReStore.

Was this the only winterizing technique they mentioned?

Betsy True

[wil...@gmail.com]

James
I would like to obtain a board
Debbie Kelly
Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

[Sarah Shatz]

I did some research on both Buidrite and Homosote and Buildrite is a
much better product. I'm getting two sheets. I may have some extra,
if I do, I'll sell it at cost to folks in the club. We should have a
deadline on ordering this though as it will take time to get here and
cut. So be sure to let Jim know soon if you want some!

Also, we had a great time as a swarm at Ride the Drive. I keep trying
to post a picture as an attachment but it won't let me. If you are
interested in the picture, let me know and I'll send it to you. We
had some good costumes!

~Sarah

[Ruth Harms]

Hello
I'd take 1 sheet for my 4 hives, + 1 extra with 1 left to share.
Thanks
Ruth Harms

[james macdonald]

Betsy -

They said that stacks of newspaper could also be used as a winterizing inner cover but that seems like a pretty messy impromptu solution.  The idea is that the cover should provide good insulation while also transporting moisture out of the hive.  The fiber board by bildrite is specifically designed to do these two things.  My guess is that homosote would not work in the same way.  I believe it is waterproof and that is why it is used for exterior siding.  Waterproof board will not wick the moisture out of the hive.

MacD 

[agarden tds.net]

I'll take a 4x4 sheet.  It can't hurt, and who knows, it may be better than tilting the outer cover.  I'l experiment.

ag

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM, karuna <opening...@gmail.com> wrote:

[sbjoh...@aol.com]

Thinking of the future, I would be interested in 6 of the fiberboard
inner covers.

Your link to the wrapping information in turn led me to the
UofM-Extension beekeeping manuals:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/honeybees/components/manuals.htm

There are several topics there of interest to me, but the prices seem
kind of high for small extension booklets. Can anyone say if the
information contained therein is worth the price?

"Beekeeping in Northern Climates"
"Honey Bee Diseases & Pests: A companion to Beekeeping in Northern
Climates"

Thanks...

Steve

sbjoh...@aol.com
http://www.wd8das.net/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Radio is your best entertainment value.
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-----Original Message-----
From: karuna <opening...@gmail.com>
To: madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 3:40 pm
Subject: [madbees] getting them through the winter

[jeanne hansen]

Steve, To me those two beekeeping booklets don't sound that expensive.  Judging by the rave reviews of people who have been to Marla Spivik's classes at the U of M, I am guessing the booklets are well-written and useful.

That being said, I wonder if you could get them from the library?  Via the inter-library loan system, they can get an amazing variety of books.  Keep us posted.

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen

824 Jacobson Ave.
Madison, Wi 53714
608-244-5094

---

From: "sbjoh...@aol.com" <sbjoh...@aol.com>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 8:35:22 AM
Subject: Re: [madbees] getting them through the winter

[wil...@gmail.com]

This message is 4 Sarah,
I would like to pick up
The extractor after work today, if possible
Sorry, I have not been able to connect with you by phone
Debbie Kelly
PH # 574 7880

Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Shatz <sarah...@yahoo.com>
Sender: mad...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 15:33:59
To: madbees<mad...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: mad...@googlegroups.com

[wil...@gmail.com]

Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Shatz <sarah...@yahoo.com>
Sender: mad...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 15:33:59
To: madbees<mad...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [madbees] Re: getting them through the winter

[Betsy True]

James, I've been to the Bildrite website and am trying to find the product you are buying. What is it called? They have many many products, which one are you looking at? Sheathing, roof, sound deadening, etc.?

Betsy True

[Math Heinzel]

Homasote is often used as a tackboard, or as acoustical panels. The company used to make impervious stuff, even automobile roof material, but the stuff I have gotten is light, soft, may have something in it to make it rodent and termite resistant, but it is not waterproof. I think Menards carries it, but it is in 1/2" panels, not 3/4"

I'll check the next time I'm out there.

Unfortunately, most stuff that is made for construction uses, even interior finishing, has something added to make it insect and rodent resistant. They could make it not, but who would buy it (besides beeks?) From my experience making handmade paper, a form the right size for a hive should not be too hard to make, and thick paper is easier than thin finished to make.

Math

Math Heinzel
ma...@hedgecroft.net

We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart H. L. Mencken

[Betsy True]

I don't really know what it is that I have. It's definitely got wood fibers in it and perhaps some grey paper. The Homosote company says it's not homosote if it isn't grey and papery and not if it has wood fibers in it. So I don't know what I have and will be trying to figure that out.

Betsy True

[Betsy True]

OK, I'd like to try this. Would you use newsprint?

On Sep 2, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Math Heinzel wrote:

From my experience making handmade paper, a form the right size for a hive should not be too hard to make, and thick paper is easier than thin finished to make.

Betsy True

[jeanne hansen]

As I remember from very early in this conversation, someone mentioned using a thick layer of newspaper sheets in place of the fiber boards.  I like the idea, because it is cheaper than purchasing porous boards, and easier than making the news-print into paper machai.  Plus, the small air spaces between the sheets would contribute to the insulating power.
 

Thanks!
Jeanne Hansen

824 Jacobson Ave.
Madison, Wi 53714
608-244-5094

---

From: Betsy True <bt...@wisc.edu>
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 2, 2010 10:35:47 PM
Subject: Re: [madbees] getting them through the winter

[Math Heinzel]

I'm sure there are a lot of people in the area who have made paper, probably even some on this list.  It has been a few years, but I remember my partner Rae doing it, flat, 3d molded, shaped.  messy fun!

Make a box of  1 x 4 pine, and a matching frame of  1 x 2 (or 1 x 4, if you have a large enough tub to hold both) stretch and affix a fine mesh screen to one, aluminum works well for strength, if you use nylon, you may need to add some 1/4" hardware cloth on the under side for support, since this is a large area, and the wet pulp will weigh a lot.  Youcan make it oversize and then cut to finish, to be sure you don't lose any to shrinkage and irregular edges.

Newspaper will work, not the best, though.  Avoid glossy paper, most sources recommend white paper from a recycling bin probably best.  You can add lots of things, too, like strips of cotton, shredded bark, milkweed fluff... But you want to make it something the bees won't try to take apart or seal over. paper egg cartons...

I remember Rae's favorite raw material was the old punch cards that were available in quantities when people stopped using them (a long time ago now).

Process:  pulping, draining, drying, and finishing.

Very good step by steps:

http://www.pioneerthinking.com/makingpaper.html

To pulp, shred paper first (by hand or paper shredder, if you have one), 

* add to warm water in a blender, start slow, speed up till thick as a smoothie

* put frame into a tub with warm water, pout pulp in an mix around.

* lift frame out and let it drip

* remove the top frame, place a piece of fabric over the paper, invert it, use a sponge to remove excess water, and gently separate paper from screen

* let it dry, peel off fabric

basic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJp8-SHqIZs

Math Heinzel

ma...@hedgecroft.net

"If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
— Malcolm X (I love that this has become a neocon slogan!)

[Betsy True]

Homasote is basically paper and has a perm rating of 12. I would love to come up with a way to test the permeability of something. Anyone have any ideas?

I could sacrifice a board and pour water over it …

Architects or Civil Engineers might have data sheets on this stuff.

Betsy True

[Nate Vack]

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Math Heinzel <ma...@hedgecroft.net> wrote:

> * add to warm water in a blender, start slow, speed up till thick as a
> smoothie

If you want to make a hive-sized piece of paper 3/4" thick, you're
going to want a REALLY big blender...

-n

[Betsy True]

… or just pour one quart at a time.

Betsy True

[Ginny Bormann]

I would be interested in a full sheet.

-Ginny Bormann
Town of Bristol

[Ruth Harms]

Hello all
My son Paul is up in Bemidji MN, about 2 hours from International Falls and nothing to do on the weekends. He is coming home on Oct. 8th and would be willing to go up and get some boards. I've looked for the information in my gmail "mess" and can't find the original conversation with the name of this board that some people are wanting.
Paul has a trailblazer and therefore can haul . . . .some, not sure how much. I have 4 hives and could use one board but would be willing to do a test with one and then something else too and share the other pieces. I know James is out there (sorry James, lost the email paper you gave me that night) and will want some. Could someone give me the name again. I thought I'd call up to Menards to see what the weight is and then try to determine how many Paul could bring.
Any information anyone else has would be helpful. . . he's wanting to plan his weekend!
Thanks

Ruth Harms

[reeser]

Ruth,

The product as I recall is called Bildrite. http://www.bildrite.net/sheathing.htm

Copied below is James original email. I'm not sure what the count is
up to in terms of numbers of sheets people want.

Thanks,
scott

--

On Sep 28, 10:00 pm, Ruth Harms <relha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all
> My son Paul is up in Bemidji MN, about 2 hours from International Falls and
> nothing to do on the weekends. He is coming home on Oct. 8th and would be
> willing to go up and get some boards. I've looked for the information in my
> gmail "mess" and can't find the original conversation with the name of this
> board that some people are wanting.
> Paul has a trailblazer and therefore can haul . . . .some, not sure how
> much. I have 4 hives and could use one board but would be willing to do a
> test with one and then something else too and share the other pieces. I know
> James is out there (sorry James, lost the email paper you gave me that
> night) and will want some. Could someone give me the name again. I thought
> I'd call up to Menards to see what the weight is and then try to determine
> how many Paul could bring.
> Any information anyone else has would be helpful. . . he's wanting to plan
> his weekend!
> Thanks
>
> Ruth Harms
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:21 PM, james macdonald

> <openingmyhe...@gmail.com>wrote:

[relh...@gmail.com]

Thanks Scott.
James did email me today and he's going to call a sales manager up there and try to get some details. I appreciate you finding the original message for me. The more I know, the more James won't have to repeat himself etc.
R