My Gas-Vap oxcilic vaporizer arrived from England. It took 2 months but I’m happy. I’m testing for mites with my new test kit for with my alcohol wash first according to Trevor’s instructions. Any thing over 5 mites per 1/2 cup of bees will be treated. My kids asked me for birthday ideas in June so this is what I asked for. Hopefully my years of struggle have crested.

[Tim Aure]

[Marcin Matelski]

Tim,

please share your results. I also recommend reading Randy Oliver's experiments with oxalic acid sublimation and how many treatments it took to get a satisfactory mite reduction during brood rearing season. 

Also, and this is not meant at any one specifically, by label, oxalic acid is not supposed to be used whenever there's any honey for human consumption on the hive. 

And, technically, the only oxalic acid that is supposed to be used for mite control should have an EPA label stating so on it. 

---

From: Tim Aure <timoth...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020, 5:05 PM
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [madbees] My Gas-Vap oxcilic vaporizer arrived from England. It took 2 months but I’m happy. I’m testing for mites with my new test kit for with my alcohol wash first according to Trevor’s instructions. Any thing over 5 mites per 1/2 cup of bees will be treated. My kids asked me for birthday ideas in June so this is what I asked for. Hopefully my years of struggle have crested.

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[Matt]

Make sure that alcohol you use is approved by EPA as well <eye roll>

On Saturday, August 15, 2020 at 6:07:39 PM UTC-5, Marcin wrote:

Tim,

please share your results. I also recommend reading Randy Oliver's experiments with oxalic acid sublimation and how many treatments it took to get a satisfactory mite reduction during brood rearing season. 

Also, and this is not meant at any one specifically, by label, oxalic acid is not supposed to be used whenever there's any honey for human consumption on the hive. 

And, technically, the only oxalic acid that is supposed to be used for mite control should have an EPA label stating so on it. 

---

From: Tim Aure <timot...@gmail.com>

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020, 5:05 PM
To: mad...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [madbees] My Gas-Vap oxcilic vaporizer arrived from England. It took 2 months but I’m happy. I’m testing for mites with my new test kit for with my alcohol wash first according to Trevor’s instructions. Any thing over 5 mites per 1/2 cup of bees will be treated. My kids asked me for birthday ideas in June so this is what I asked for. Hopefully my years of struggle have crested.

Sent from my iPhone-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "madbees" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mad...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/madbees/F22C7F76-EDE4-46D1-88D0-DF8E39B61E20%40gmail.com.

[Tim Aure]

Alcohol is hard to come by because of Covid 

Trev bought ever clear But at $22 a bottle?

So if the bees die what’s this epa thing?

My paint supply store had this

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2020, at 6:20 PM, Matt <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[MARY FLANAGAN]

Randy Oliver has had the same problem getting etoh. On a whim, he grabbed the New Dawn dishwashing liquid from the kitchen cabinet and tried that. He's found it better than alcohol in removing mites during a wash.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/madbees/1AAF43DB-1FE4-494C-9AE3-B6DA4C692579%40gmail.com.

[MARY FLANAGAN]

Actually, not New Dawn, it's Dawn Ultra (lemon.)

https://www.ctbees.org/post/no-alcohol-mite-wash

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/madbees/1592201412.73625.1597535899670%40connect.xfinity.com.

[Greg V]

If bees and mites will die anyway, why cheap isopropil alcohol is not a good fit?  Dirt cheap.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/madbees/1204316855.73646.1597536320888%40connect.xfinity.com.

[Jeff Steinhauer]

Farm and Fleet has one gallon jugs of IPA for 31.99.  Well this is higher than pre-pandemic, it is inline with the current state of affairs.  I'm thinking that FDA approved alcohol is a joke as alcohol washes kill the bees and the mites. 

My question is, how does one qualify which method is the "best" for testing mite count?  Sugar bath, alcohol wash, liquid soap, etc?  Are there given %+/- reliability for each method?  Do you take your cup of nurse bees (roughly 300) and test each method starting at sugar, then progressing to alcohol, then to soap on the same bee samples to see if you dislodge more mites?  Or do you take three samples from the same hive to test the three different methods?  Or is it more just dealer's choice?
Are people treating with Oxcilic Acid Vapor with honey supers on?  There is always going to be honey on brood frames and frames of bee bread, so treatment doesn't affect the bees too badly.

Thank you in advance.

[BETSY TRUE]

That’s about what we paid 2 weeks ago. We use it in the fogger.

No idea of effectiveness.

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[MARY FLANAGAN]

RO explains his methods here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXjDSD92ILs

Alcohol % level efficacies presented around 25-30 min in.

Dawn Ultra efficacy presented around 51 minutes in.

Interestingly, RO found little need for agitation.

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[John Thompson]

If you're talking about alcohol washes for mite testing, windshield washer with alcohol will do the trick too. It's methyl alcohol. 

Just used this Friday. Shocking how many mites I could see this way vs sugar roll (which was last year, so not an apples to apples comparison). 

Used a cone coffee filter to strain it back into a jar for the next hive.

All my hives had 2 or 3 percent, some higher. Using hopguard 3 since I have supers on.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/madbees/334433362.74629.1597596259646%40connect.xfinity.com.

[Capital Bee Supply Madison]

IMO, 5 per 300 would be to high a threshold....when you do the wash your only measuring phoretic mites......when they are raising brood you need to double that since roughly 1/2 (or more) of the mites are under capped cells...so that takes you to 10 per 300 or 3.3%.....2% or less is the threshold we use as we go into late summer, often 1% as it gets into early September. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmfPMXTFmA&t=8s  On the materials, winter windshield washer fluid will work fine. I have tried Randy Oliver's recommendation of the Dawn Ultra Lemon dish soap and water but the kill isn't as fast as with alcohol or winter washer fluid, which is a little disconcerting to see bees swimming under water for several seconds (I think if one used any of the Dawn Ultras or Ajax Ultra Super Degreaser would be fine since it is the degreaser that is important).  I haven't had trouble getting rubbing alcohol in our area...Dollar General has pretty consistently had it on the shelf in the last few weeks as has Walmart in our area. Menards near us had it recently in bigger containers (seemed like it was close to 2 quarts) by their hand sanitizers.

On Saturday, August 15, 2020 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-5, timothy.aure wrote:

[Joseph Bessetti]

If you are working with bees that have no mite resistance, 5 mites per 100 bees will usually keep growing as long as the bees are raising brood in fall.  In that case the colony probably has a problem.  This will be the case for most of your packages and nucs from out of state as well as any bees that you've obtained locally from people who use mite treatments to control mites.   

If you are working with bees that have natural mite resistance or you are interested in selecting for mite resistance, 5 mites per 100 bees this time of year isn't so bad.  About the time the bees stop rearing drones, mite numbers will start to decline naturally.  

Do consider the nature of your bees and your beekeeping goals when interpreting mite counts.

Joe

---

From: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Capital Bee Supply Madison <capitalb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 9:15 PM
To: madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [madbees] Re: My Gas-Vap oxcilic vaporizer arrived from England. It took 2 months but I’m happy. I’m testing for mites with my new test kit for with my alcohol wash first according to Trevor’s instructions. Any thing over 5 mites per 1/2 cup of bees wi...

 

IMO, 5 per 300 would be to high a threshold....when you do the wash your only measuring phoretic mites......when they are raising brood you need to double that since roughly 1/2 (or more) of the mites are under capped cells...so that takes you to 10 per 300 or 3.3%.....2% or less is the threshold we use as we go into late summer, often 1% as it gets into early September. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmfPMXTFmA&t=8s  On the materials, winter windshield washer fluid will work fine. I have tried Randy Oliver's recommendation of the Dawn Ultra Lemon dish soap and water but the kill isn't as fast as with alcohol or winter washer fluid, which is a little disconcerting to see bees swimming under water for several seconds (I think if one used any of the Dawn Ultras or Ajax Ultra Super Degreaser would be fine since it is the degreaser that is important).  I haven't had trouble getting rubbing alcohol in our area...Dollar General has pretty consistently had it on the shelf in the last few weeks as has Walmart in our area. Menards near us had it recently in bigger containers (seemed like it was close to 2 quarts) by their hand sanitizers.

On Saturday, August 15, 2020 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-5, timothy.aure wrote:

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[trex raptor]

Just thought I would throw it out there that the bee informed partnership and MU bee lab recommends treatment at 9 mites per 300 bee sample around mid to late August. I have learned by experience that 5+ is time to treat and that 15+ usually means the colony is already dead but they just don't know it yet. I have seen 15+ survive if you treat the first week of August but it's rare and takes extreme measures. Also think about replacing the queen in a colony with that high of a mite count in the spring. To me, it seems that she isn't holding up her end of the bargain if they are producing that many mites. This info is coming from myself, who happens to keep bees in WI year round instead of shipping them down south for the winter.

On the topic of testing, make sure your using 70% or higher alcohol. Anything less than that is a waste of your time and bee lives. I found a local specialty hardware store that carries 1 gallon containers of 99% isopropyl for about $22. What a deal and it's the platinum standard for mite counts! You could even buy a jug that large and share it with other beekeepers, maybe even do some mites testing together. I have probably burned through a gallon already testing all my colonies the past 3 weeks. While it takes time and costs money, it pays off having the knowledge of what will live or die instead of bind treatment and crossings your fingers.

One last nugget of info for you all, make sure you test AFTER your have concluded your treatment. If you don't test, you won't know if the treatment was successful. 

Even if you are of the mindset of not treating, do yourself and all of us a favor and test for mites via an alcohol wash. If they have a high mite count then you need to put a garbage bag over the colony or shake all the bees out into soap water. No one likes a mite bomb...

I would love to hear what mite loads folks are finding this season.

-Trevor

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 9:15 PM Capital Bee Supply Madison <capitalb...@gmail.com> wrote:

IMO, 5 per 300 would be to high a threshold....when you do the wash your only measuring phoretic mites......when they are raising brood you need to double that since roughly 1/2 (or more) of the mites are under capped cells...so that takes you to 10 per 300 or 3.3%.....2% or less is the threshold we use as we go into late summer, often 1% as it gets into early September. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmfPMXTFmA&t=8s  On the materials, winter windshield washer fluid will work fine. I have tried Randy Oliver's recommendation of the Dawn Ultra Lemon dish soap and water but the kill isn't as fast as with alcohol or winter washer fluid, which is a little disconcerting to see bees swimming under water for several seconds (I think if one used any of the Dawn Ultras or Ajax Ultra Super Degreaser would be fine since it is the degreaser that is important).  I haven't had trouble getting rubbing alcohol in our area...Dollar General has pretty consistently had it on the shelf in the last few weeks as has Walmart in our area. Menards near us had it recently in bigger containers (seemed like it was close to 2 quarts) by their hand sanitizers.

On Saturday, August 15, 2020 at 5:05:06 PM UTC-5, timothy.aure wrote: