Quick Check Added Pollen Patty & Suger Water

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Jeff Steinhauer

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Apr 25, 2021, 4:07:44 PM4/25/21
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I did a quick check of my hive today.  There was only two bars of bees compared to three weeks ago, so I assume that either there are a lot out forging, or all the winter bees are now gone.  I didn't disrupt the brood nest at all, as it is a cool day.  They've consumed most of the fondant that I put on them three weeks ago.  I added a quart of sugar water, and half of a pollen patty.  They started consuming the patty right away.  Even with what they're bringing in, I think they're hungry for protein.  Hoping that this is the last of the cold weather, and the colony can build up quick for late spring.

I hope everyone else made the best of a nice weekend.
Cheers,
Jeff S.

Paul Zelenski

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Apr 25, 2021, 4:36:51 PM4/25/21
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I’d take a look at the brood on a warmer day. Healthy hives should be building up now. They should be growing in size, not shrinking. If you hive is shrinking, I worry that you may have lost your queen. Two frames is very weak for a hive, but still viable.  A 2# package really doesn’t cover much more than that. So, if your hive is full of healthy bees and a good queen, it should be able to build up. But, if it is still shrinking, I worry.

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Jeff Steinhauer

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Apr 25, 2021, 6:08:26 PM4/25/21
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Well I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

Matt

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Apr 26, 2021, 10:45:38 PM4/26/21
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Or a weak queen who won't lay much of anything.  I've definitely had them before.  They come out of winter and won't lay much of anything, even when condensed into a nuc box.  Usually best to just cut your losses and start fresh.  Even if you find a queen, if you don't see a good brood pattern you should consider getting a nuc for that hive (shake out the existing bees first if any are left).  

Paul Zelenski

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Apr 26, 2021, 10:46:48 PM4/26/21
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Yup, exactly. Just cuz there’s a queen doesn’t mean she’s any good.

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Marcin

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Apr 26, 2021, 10:56:52 PM4/26/21
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Interesting you said that Matt as I'm dealing with a colony that has a queen like that. In March, the brood was looking seasonal for the time and on par with other colonies. At beginning of April, brood amount was falling behind others. I gave it a frame of capped brood from another colony. Today, there's no eggs, just 7+ days old larvae and capped brood. I saw the queen, she seemed to be getting attention from the bees. I don't know what to make of it, but I'm guessing it's time to move on and stop wasting resources and time on her.

Jeff Steinhauer

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Apr 26, 2021, 11:01:20 PM4/26/21
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She was in there, and there was a decent pattern on a couple frames.  Added a frame of drawn comb next to the brood, as they were packing in a lot of pollen.  I'll think about dropping them down to a nuc after next week.  The weather this week looks warm/hot but with rain.  Okay amount of capped brood, larva & eggs.

Paul Zelenski

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Apr 26, 2021, 11:16:48 PM4/26/21
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Yeah, sometimes queens just fail. Spring buildup is a key time to notice it since they should be really kicking in. Sometimes you see a queen that just comes out of winter in a bit of a slump. Other times you see one that just starts strong but then begins failing over time (either drones or spotty pattern). I’ve also seen it where there is a big fat queen that looks like everything should be going great, but she’s simply not laying any eggs.

I even found one colony today that had been building up like gangbusters, but now the queen is obviously failing. At first glance it looked like they were going to swarm. There were a few swarm cells on the bottoms of frames. But a closer inspection showed just a sprinkling of brood from a failing queen. Guess she just ran out of steam.

Whatever the problem is, the easiest solution is to replace these queens. If the hive is strong enough, you can just pinch her, give them a frame of eggs and let them raise one. Or of course, you can purchase a queen and replace. If the hive isn’t strong enough to bother with, as Matt said, you can buy a nuc and shake those bees out to join it. I’ve nursed some very weak hives back to health, but the longer I keep bees, the more I realize it isn’t worth the hassle.

 

The one thing to keep in mind, however, is that sometimes it isn’t the queens fault. It is possible that there is brood disease or high mites that are causing a drain on the hive and slowing it’s growth. So, be sure to be on the lookout for these before you blame your queen.

 

 

From: Marcin
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:56 PM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Quick Check Added Pollen Patty & Suger Water

 

Interesting you said that Matt as I'm dealing with a colony that has a queen like that. In March, the brood was looking seasonal for the time and on par with other colonies. At beginning of April, brood amount was falling behind others. I gave it a frame of capped brood from another colony. Today, there's no eggs, just 7+ days old larvae and capped brood. I saw the queen, she seemed to be getting attention from the bees. I don't know what to make of it, but I'm guessing it's time to move on and stop wasting resources and time on her.

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 9:46:48 PM UTC-5 Paul Zelenski wrote:

Yup, exactly. Just cuz there’s a queen doesn’t mean she’s any good.

 

From: Matt
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:45 PM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Quick Check Added Pollen Patty & Suger Water

 

Or a weak queen who won't lay much of anything.  I've definitely had them before.  They come out of winter and won't lay much of anything, even when condensed into a nuc box.  Usually best to just cut your losses and start fresh.  Even if you find a queen, if you don't see a good brood pattern you should consider getting a nuc for that hive (shake out the existing bees first if any are left).  

 

On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 5:08:26 PM UTC-5 jsteinh...@gmail.com wrote:

Well I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

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Paul Zelenski

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Apr 26, 2021, 11:26:17 PM4/26/21
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Glad to hear there is a good pattern. Hopefully it was just the cold weather being hard on them. The colder days are hardest on the smallest colonies since they have less mass to keep things warm. The strong colonies shrug it off, but the small ones really have to cluster up and sometimes even lose brood. If this warm weather doesn’t get ‘em moving, I’d be concerned.

 

From: Jeff Steinhauer
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 10:01 PM
To: madbees
Subject: Re: [madbees] Quick Check Added Pollen Patty & Suger Water

 

She was in there, and there was a decent pattern on a couple frames.  Added a frame of drawn comb next to the brood, as they were packing in a lot of pollen.  I'll think about dropping them down to a nuc after next week.  The weather this week looks warm/hot but with rain.  Okay amount of capped brood, larva & eggs.

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Tim Aure

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Apr 27, 2021, 10:06:17 AM4/27/21
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Michael Palmer calls and uses them as "resource hives". He either requeens them or uses the brood in queen mating nucs or mini nucs with queen cells. Trevor sells queen cells and early in the season before dragon flies abound you stand pretty good odds of getting a locally mated queen. If she's not producing and just taking up a hive- "Off with her head", says Palmer. Which sounds cruel but worker bees live, at the most six weeks and you need their numbers to grow to feed and keep the new eggs/ larvae warm and fed for that hive to stay healthy, growing and productive.  If that doesn't sound nice put her in... I'd call it a spinsters nuc to finish out her days and you can use some of the frames of brood to strengthen a more productive working hive.
Numbers make the difference and one needs to get a package of 10,000 bees up to about 40,000 to get much honey out of a decent producing hive and the honey flows are strongest from now till mid/ late July. Watch for swarm cells from here on out (or you'll lose that hive making honey)
Also, Ian Steppler, says/ does- if it's just a weak hive you can set her above a strong hive (if you have one) with a queen excluder in between. That hive will get workers from the strong hive. After a week or 10 days, you can set the once weak hive back on its old bottom bd. With the influx of new workers, it might jump start that weak hive and that queen might turn around. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2021, at 9:45 PM, Matt <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or a weak queen who won't lay much of anything.  I've definitely had them before.  They come out of winter and won't lay much of anything, even when condensed into a nuc box.  Usually best to just cut your losses and start fresh.  Even if you find a queen, if you don't see a good brood pattern you should consider getting a nuc for that hive (shake out the existing bees first if any are left).  


On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 5:08:26 PM UTC-5 jsteinh...@gmail.com wrote:
Well I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

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Matt

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Apr 29, 2021, 1:36:35 PM4/29/21
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I HIGHLY recommend against doing what Ian Steppler suggests. I've done just that and the weak hive goes in and kills the queen of the strong hive (with excluder and newspaper used). This weak hive had a queen however I suspect there was something wrong with her.  Better off shaking the bees out on the ground in your apiary on a nice day, remove the hive, and let them get back to a new/different hive on their own. 

Jeff Steinhauer

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Apr 29, 2021, 6:44:46 PM4/29/21
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I just checked tonight, and the frame of drawn comb that I placed next to the brood is fully laid up with eggs.  Another frame that is only partially drawn out is also packed with eggs, like solid.  This tells me that the forgers were packing food in and not giving her a place to lay.  Looking to have a population boom in three weeks.  I cleaned out the last of my dead outs and see that they starved to death.  Should have thrown food on them in the fall.
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