Fwd: BEE-L Digest - 20 Sep 2024 to 21 Sep 2024 (#2024-254)

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Wow fyi Larry L

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Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2024 11:00:14 PM
Subject: BEE-L Digest - 20 Sep 2024 to 21 Sep 2024 (#2024-254)

There are 14 messages totaling 419 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Betterbee Shipping VarroxSan
2. VarroxSan (13)

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 08:23:30 -0400
From: Michael Cook <Michael...@ICLOUD.COM>
Subject: Re: Betterbee Shipping VarroxSan

I’m new here and a first year bee keeper. I ordered some of these strips and they arrived yesterday. I only have 2 colonies at present. The varroxsan will be my last treatment of the year. I will put them in today and remove on Nov.15th or thereabouts. I won’t know the efficacy until spring. I will more than likely make my own after this, I have the ingredients but it was too late in the season to try something new. I used formic pro prior and was happy with the results.


I’m not a scientist, but I sure love reading about bees.
I jumped in on my own this year, I do not belong to a group of any kind(besides this one) and have learned all I know from reading. Experience this year has taught me that a hive of Late June bees is wayyyy different than a late July bee hive. I’ll quit rambling now.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 13:38:19 -0400
From: Pete Bee <pl...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

Varroxsan™ Master label 06 May 2024

PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT:
Handlers and Applicators who apply product must wear:
Long-sleeved shirt and long pants , Socks and shoes
Chemical resistant gloves (barrier laminate, butyl rubber 14 mils., nitrile rubber 14 mils., neoprene rubber 14 mils., natural rubber 14 mils., polyethylene, polyvinyl chloride 14 mils, or viton 14 mils.)
Protective eyewear (goggles or face shield)
Wear a minimum of a NIOSH-approved particulate filtering facepiece respirator with any N, R, or P filter
It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 11:20:33 -0700
From: Randy Oliver <ra...@RANDYOLIVER.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

Has anyone on the List tried inserting oxalic strips while wearing 14 mil
gloves?
I don't have any, but am curious to what degree they affect one's dexterity
in handling the strips.
I'd love to hear comments from someone who has.

Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
530 277 4450
ScientificBeekeeping.com

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 14:28:44 -0400
From: Allen Dick <alle...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

I don't know about handing oxalic, but can assure everyone that handling formic pads without gloves will take the skin off your fingers.

It does not happen right away, but later the entire outer skin peels off like the finger of a glove.

That is bad enough, but I imagine it could be more serious with longer exposure. The curious thing is that there is no sensation at the time of contact.

I've never been burnt handling dry oxalic, or OA in syrup.

What are people using to handle oxalic strips?.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 13:38:35 -0500
From: Juanse Barros <juan...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

>
> I've never been burnt handling dry oxalic, or OA in syrup.
>
> What are people using to handle oxalic strips?.


When preparing the strips I usually do it barehand. It is enough to wash
with plenty of water and then insert your hands in almidón flour (starch).

When working the hives and placing strips I wear nitrile gloves.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 14:57:07 -0400
From: James Fischer <james....@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

> Has anyone on the List tried inserting oxalic strips while wearing 14 mil gloves?

Ever since her allergist treatment for a sudden-onset venom reaction, my wife has been careful to always wear "Mr. Clean Bliss" latex-free vinyl gloves, as latex gloves irritate her skin.

These gloves are said by the maker to be 22 mil thick, and while they certainly aren't chemical-resistant nitrile, they do not limit her dexterity when working her hives in the least, and honey bee stings do not get through the glove to her skin. I tested this myself. I've seen her handle queen introduction cages, her notebook and pencil, and so on in her gloves without any problems.

I've never needed 15 mil nitrile gloves, but the problem with any glove is sizing more than anything else. When I go south, I wear REI glove liners under thick astronaut-style outer gloves, and good-fitting glove liners are a luxury in extreme cold, moreso to people like me with large hands.

The more expensive brands of disposable gloves come in more sizes if one buys them by the box, but if the only use is mite treatment, a box may be a lifetime supply.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 15:36:03 -0400
From: Chris Hagwood <chrish...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

>
> What are people using to handle oxalic strips?.


Gloves are needed. I put some glycerin/OA pads in without gloves and
noticed pain around the nail beds of my fingers late in the day and into
the next day or so. I think as liquid oozed out it collected under my
nails and did its mild damage. I don’t like wearing gloves so I have
carried kitchen tongs to use instead.

I guess I will buy and use the commercial formulation next year. I have had
some crazy good results with OA/glycerin but found it needed to be
significant (probably 1.5 the area of a Swedish sponge ) and refreshed
about every 2 months. The largest colonies will propolize them in 3 weeks
so I don’t know if those are even doing anything after that.

I wonder what the bees do around the 8 dangling strips between brood frames
in the typical varroxan application? I suppose it’s good to bump them
around in position during inspections. The bees always avoided brood under
the apivar strips and that was just 2 in a brood box. This is 8!


>

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 12:50:44 -0700
From: Randy Oliver <ra...@RANDYOLIVER.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

> What are people using to handle oxalic strips?.
We use disposable restaurant food handling gloves.
They cost only a penny apiece, and go on and off very quickly.

Your skin can handle OA/gly for a while, and one does not get the skin
peeling that you get with formic.
We always carry jugs of 10 heaping tablespoons of baking soda per gallon of
water (my own testing), to neutralize our hands and tools afterwards.
The requirement for face masks and respirator seem ridiculous to me, since
with OA/gly strips there is no splashing nor vaporization.

Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
530 277 4450
ScientificBeekeeping.com

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:13:01 +0000
From: "rcry...@yahoo.com" <rcry...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: VarroxSan

"The requirement for face masks and respirator seem ridiculous...."

They do not seem at all  ridiculous to me.  They are simply common sense for the manufacturer to put such restrictions on the label.  Put yourself in the position of a pesticide manufacturer  who is used to getting sued all the time by homeowners. who are mighty creative in misuse of products.  And, that is before nuisance lawsuits that have no justification at all.  Think of suing McDonalds because you spilled hot coffee in your lap and got burned.  I could give you dozens of suits like that over pesticides.  Now the general public can not even buy glyphosate any more.  Look at the label for Roundup for home owner applications.  Starting this year no glyphosate in there.  Why the change?  Easy answer is just look at who sues.  In the glyphosate case something over 95% of all the lawsuits were general public and the rest farmers and Ag workers.

So, what does the manufacurer do?  He has his lawyers write a label with all kinds of handling restrictions that no one is going to be able to prove he/she followed.  When you can not prove you followed all label handling restrictions the law suit goes away.  Other wise you buy off the litigant as it is cheaper to buy them off then go to court and risk a jury giving them millions of $.

We should be happy they did not require use of a Scott Air Pak 75i SCBA.

Dick

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 13:31:07 -0500
From: Juanse Barros <juan...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

Has anyone on the List tried inserting oxalic strips while wearing 14 mil
> gloves?
> I don't have any, but am curious to what degree they affect one's dexterity
> in handling the strips.
>

I mostly wear green nitrile gloves. Not sure if they are 14 mil but appart
of getting soaky inside and sometimes finger get trapped under a frame, it
is not much problem handling the strips or anything else.

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 15:09:20 -0700
From: Randy Oliver <ra...@RANDYOLIVER.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

> for the manufacturer to put such restrictions on the label

My misunderstanding! So it's the manufacturer that writes the restrictions
about PPE, not the EPA? Correct?

Randy Oliver
Grass Valley, CA
530 277 4450
ScientificBeekeeping.com

>
>

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 16:57:14 -0500
From: Juanse Barros <juan...@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

>
>
> >The requirement for face masks and respirator seem ridiculous to me, since
> with OA/gly strips there is no splashing nor vaporization.
>

Agree

>

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 22:48:40 +0000
From: "rcry...@yahoo.com" <rcry...@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: VarroxSan

"the manufacturer that writes the restrictions...."

The EPA is not in the writing business.  It is in the approval or rejection business.  The registrant submits a proposed label for each formulation of a registered chemical.  The EPA looks at the proposal and looks at the tox and environmental data and either approves the label or goes back to the registrant and tells them they must restrict some area more than they have on the proposed label.  For example a herbicide might have an eight hour worker re-entry restriction.  If EPA feels the tox data says this is too short they will tell the manufacturer it is too short and to lengthen the re-entry time.  Then there typically is some back and forth negotiation to try and figure out what time limit the EPA will accept.  I have never heard of a case where EPA said the proposed label was too restrictive and should be loosened.  There are thousands of registered formulations so they might have said that on rare occasions.  I sure never saw it happen on any of the formulation labels I was involved in getting registered.

Dick

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2024 23:13:54 -0400
From: Pete Bee <pl...@CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: VarroxSan

Hi all
I worked in a lab situation where we wore gloves all the time. I always preferred latex for comfort and flexibility. You can get

> a 14 mil thick, extended cuff, powder free latex exam glove designed to provide the highest level of protection for high-risk and heavy-duty applications and ideal for EMS, trauma, law enforcement, mortuary, laboratory, mid to heavy mechanics and industrial use.

They are cheap enough, 50 for $12

The respirator or face mask is a sticking point for me, they don't work with beards.

PLB

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End of BEE-L Digest - 20 Sep 2024 to 21 Sep 2024 (#2024-254)
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