Treating new package bees

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Kerry Breit

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Mar 23, 2021, 10:47:31 AM3/23/21
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I can’t seem to find much information on treating package bees with powder sugar shake before installing in hive. Wonder what people’s thoughts are on this?
Best,
Kerry



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Joseph Bessetti

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Mar 23, 2021, 11:03:32 AM3/23/21
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I'd consider it a waste of time.  Packages don't usually have enough mites to warrant any treatment.  Plus, the bees are already stressed enough.  Check mite levels in August.

Joe



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Kyle Curran

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Mar 23, 2021, 12:31:42 PM3/23/21
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New packages are easily treated with oxalic acid dribble or return within 1 week of install to OA Vape before the brood is sealed. Dr. Marion Ellis of UNL published research on the efficacy of oxalic on package bees 2 decades ago. 

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Mary Flanagan

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Mar 23, 2021, 12:41:29 PM3/23/21
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Powdered sugar might be detrimental to a new package since you will likely be feeding them sugar syrup. If powdered sugar gets wet, it makes. . . well, what I as a kid called goo. . .because there is some cornstarch in the sugar. In the summer when you're not feeding, it's OK (I do it without problems.)

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 9:47 AM 'Kerry Breit' via madbees <mad...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

jeanne hansen

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Mar 23, 2021, 2:19:30 PM3/23/21
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I used to test my packages every year, as soon as they arrived.  They NEVER have mites.  So there is no need to do a mite treatment until later in the season, as Joe says.

Jeanne Hansen
824 Jacobson Ave
Madison, WI 53714


larry lindokken

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Mar 23, 2021, 5:54:13 PM3/23/21
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It may be a good idea to test about the end of May and treat if necessary.  The packages may or may not be free of mites.
It also depends on the inflow of mites from the surrounding area. This year with a high loss; pressure from mites may be less than say last year.



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Kerry Breit

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Mar 23, 2021, 7:53:22 PM3/23/21
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I did run across the acid treatment but from what I read seemed like maybe overkill and truthfully the sound of it scares me a little. Just was thinking about the uses of powder sugar before any brood. I hadn’t thought about the  moisture issue, but they will be getting plenty of stored pollen and some honey from my bees that died in the fall- so prob could wait to be fed a couple of days. That said- sounds like the consensus is prob not necessary. 

Thank you! 
Kerry
 




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On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:54 PM, larry lindokken <larryli...@gmail.com> wrote:



marvin

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Mar 24, 2021, 11:10:21 AM3/24/21
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Just in general, try not to do anything with a package other than getting it hived.  They're skittish, and prone to superceding if you look at them cross-eyed.  


Lloyd St. Bees

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Mar 24, 2021, 11:31:55 AM3/24/21
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Hi Kerry,

I attached an article that describes the OA spray or drench method I have used in the past when helping folks start packages of bees. I see you have concerns about using OA. What treatments have you used in the past? Don't be afraid of OA spraying of dribble. It's actually one of the safer mite treatments you can use. The article I attached by Latshaw also outlines how to split packages of bees with additional queens, fun stuff. To those who say their packages don't have mites...

IMG_6311.jpg


Thank you,
Trevor
Lloyd St. Bees
TWO POUNDS OF BEES OPTIMIZZING GROWTH POTENTIAL.pdf

Kyle Curran

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Mar 24, 2021, 12:43:47 PM3/24/21
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I agree with Trevor. With the potential of mites to develop resistance to amitraz the treatment of packages is all the more relevant. Commercial hives come out of CA almonds full of mites and needing multiple treatments before the nectar flow.

Randy Oliver descibes the treatment of nucs and packages a “no brainer.” With the brood break it is the easiest time to treat. 

Here is his lesson which I have followed with success in the past. OAV especially has no noticeable side effects on the bees.


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Tim Aure

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Mar 24, 2021, 1:15:26 PM3/24/21
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I would conquer, packages no but nucs shortly after installation, once they've settled in your equipment. 

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On Mar 24, 2021, at 10:32 AM, Lloyd St. Bees <trexb...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Kerry,

I attached an article that describes the OA spray or drench method I have used in the past when helping folks start packages of bees. I see you have concerns about using OA. What treatments have you used in the past? Don't be afraid of OA spraying of dribble. It's actually one of the safer mite treatments you can use. The article I attached by Latshaw also outlines how to split packages of bees with additional queens, fun stuff. To those who say their packages don't have mites...

<IMG_6311.jpg>


Thank you,
Trevor
Lloyd St. Bees

On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:10:21 AM UTC-5, marvin wrote:
Just in general, try not to do anything with a package other than getting it hived.  They're skittish, and prone to superceding if you look at them cross-eyed.  


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<TWO POUNDS OF BEES OPTIMIZZING GROWTH POTENTIAL.pdf>
<IMG_6311.jpg>

Paul Zelenski

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Mar 24, 2021, 1:37:21 PM3/24/21
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It entirely depends on the packages or nucs. I have seen packages that have 0 mites, I have seen packages with shockingly high mites. I have seen first year packages end the year with minimal mites, I have seen packages end the year with 50+ mites per 300 bees. Some package producers treat the packages for mites before selling, others do not.

 

Personally I have never treated package bees, but I think it’s probably not a bad idea. Of course, as always, use some judgement. Depending on the weather many people spray their packages with sugar water before installing, why not add a little oxalic to it? If it’s very cold, or very dry you want to use some caution or adjust accordingly. Be considerate of the stress that a package is undergoing while trying to start a hive, but also the opportunity that being broodless presents.

 

Nucs are a lot more likely to have  mites, but also no real benefit to treating them immediately, since they’ll already have brood. I haven’t traditionally treated my bees before making nucs in the spring, nor have I treated the nucs prior to selling them. I have been considering treating my nucs while they are broodless, but don’t want to adversely effect the developing queen. Since my nucs are made as a splits that raise their own queens, they will have a brood break which should bring the mite levels down. People who make ‘nucs’ by installing premade queens onto frames of brood will have significantly higher mite levels.

 

All in all, be aware of you mite levels and do what you think is best. Powdered sugar is a poor mite treatment. Oxalic acid is much better and a very safe option when used properly.

Joseph Bessetti

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Mar 24, 2021, 7:55:35 PM3/24/21
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Paul, you do a great job of playing both sides of this debate!

We're likely providing advice to a relatively new beekeeper, who probably has never used this "very safe" oxalic acid treatment option. 

I remain firm in my recommendation.  A novice beekeeper should not attempt to treat a package for mites upon install, regardless of the method.  It's enough for them to worry about to just get a queen successfully released and verify that she's laying.  

Commercial and sideline beekeepers are welcome to treat their packages as they like, but I think it's poor form to incite a novice hobby beekeeper to attempt a treatment they have no experience with on a package.   

Kerry, you might reach out to your package supplier and ask them if they recommend doing such a thing or not.  There are some package suppliers who will provide advice and even replace a queen if it fails, but if an accidental overdose of oxalic acid occurs because someone pulls a recipe off the web and mix the solution up wrong, I doubt the package supplier will have much sympathy.

Regards,

Joe




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Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 12:37 PM
To: mad...@googlegroups.com <mad...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [madbees] Treating new package bees
 

Paul Zelenski

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Mar 24, 2021, 8:10:10 PM3/24/21
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Good point, Joe. 

Personally, I would advise not to treat new packages as (especially for new keepers) focusing on getting them installed successfully is more important than mites at this point. Mites can be dealt with later. Why complicate your life and risk a successful installation fir your first hive. 

I do think it can be done successfully, though, but wouldn’t recommend for novices. 

On Mar 24, 2021, at 6:55 PM, Joseph Bessetti <jbes...@hotmail.com> wrote:


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