---- ALL PHP Extension Developers ----
Peter R.
PHAkt/ImpAKT etc for UD4
PHP_MySql for DWMX
and soon PHAkt 2 etc for DWMX
the question is...
Which PHP server model will you be creating more extensions for?
I'm sure many PHP'ers would like the future to be a little clearer...
Thanks for your time all,
Peter
Massimo Foti
news:aas40k$m1l$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
> Now that there are many PHP server models: (Not a good thing)
> PHAkt/ImpAKT etc for UD4
> PHP_MySql for DWMX
> and soon PHAkt 2 etc for DWMX
> the question is...
>
> Which PHP server model will you be creating more extensions for?
>
> I'm sure many PHP'ers would like the future to be a little clearer...
I am too busy fixing my existing stuff, no time to create new extensions,
sorry...
You have to wait 1-2 months to get an answer from me, anyway, I agree it's a
serious issue
Massimo
Thomas Muck
were only one or even two, but three is a little hard to swallow. It's hard
enough maintaining updates for the other server models. I will definitely be
supporting the Macromedia model, but beyond that I don't know yet. The
Interakt extensions are great, but they keep changing and it's hard to keep
supporting them.
"Peter R." <prba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aas40k$m1l$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
Pete H
> were only one or even two, but three is a little hard to swallow. It's
hard
> enough maintaining updates for the other server models. I will definitely
be
> supporting the Macromedia model, but beyond that I don't know yet. The
> Interakt extensions are great, but they keep changing and it's hard to
keep
> supporting them.
>
> tom
The ideal situation would be for you to release classes for your PHP nav
suite so that people can implement them into any server model or even
handcoded pages not connected to UD or MX. How difficult would that be? I am
sure most PHPers using UD or MX have some understanding of PHP, maybe a
solution huh?
Pete :)
Thomas Muck
> suite so that people can implement them into any server model or even
> handcoded pages not connected to UD or MX. How difficult would that be? I
am
> sure most PHPers using UD or MX have some understanding of PHP, maybe a
> solution huh?
>
> Pete :)
The difficulty lies in the fact that PHP is only one of several server
models. I have to maintain VB, JS, CF, CF-UD4, JSP, PHP_mySQL, PHAkT, and
ImpAKT. It doesn't help that every time I update an extension for PHAkt or
ImpAKT it changes again and needs to be updated again. The Nav suite is 11
server behaviors in each server model. Do the math and you'll see that it's
no fun.
Also, it's hard to do it as a class if you have MySQL native support in one
server model and ADODB support in another.
On top of that, the code has to co-exist with the built-in Navigation Bar. I
can implement my own design and say screw the Navigation bar, but then I'll
have complaints that it doesn't work with the Navigation bar, or that it
doesn't work with the built-in navigation status variables. No matter how
you look at it, nothing is easy about it.
My intention is to extend the core functionality of the Dreamweaver and
UltraDev programs. I'm not trying to implement complete universal solutions
for hand-coders. You can find that anywhere on the web. My tools work with
UD and DW and try to enhance what is already there.
tom
Tim Green
Well, to be honest, it was a tough decision. Whilst the existing
PHP/MySQL Server model in DWMX isn't as complete as we all would have
hoped, there is one thing that it definitely is (or will be on final
relase) and that is stable.
What horrifies me most, is that Interakt, instead of taking the blow of
a native PHP model on the chin, and working around it, have decided
instead to compete against the native PHP Server Model in DWMX. Frankly
that's a no-brainer. It would be far better to enhance what is already
there than to throw it out of the window before it has properly seen the
light of day.
This might sound a little out of turn, for those who don't know me. But
over the last 18 months or so,I have been flying the PHAkT flag, so to
speak. I was a contributing developer on PHAkT, and a contracted
developer on ImpAKT and NeXTensio. I have released, some 16 free
extensions, and have built a commercial PHP Shopping Cart system for
PHAkT/ImpAKT, called IntelliCART.
When we talk about support and development, it is another question of
maths I'm afraid. I am one person. There is only so much time I can
dedicate to development. Supporting 3 PHP Server Models, to me at least,
is a complete waste of time for all concerned. My development time will
be split into 3, the amount of time I would have to spend in creating an
extension would be multiplied by 3, and the cost? Well, all of this
would have to be reflected into the cost of any commercial extension.
I believe that 3 PHP Server Models, will split what is already an infant
PHP Community. It will cause confusion amongst new developers, which
will ultimately put them off using DWMX for PHP Development. That can
only be bad for any fledgling community, as we need all the supporters
we can get, not frighten them away by presenting conflicting
alternatives.
I have already committed to supporting the PHP/MySQL Server Model in
DWMX. If it means that I have to make this server model, database
independant, I will do that. If it means that I have to commit hundreds
(or thousands) of hours into development, then I will do that too. I can
do it for one server model, three is out of the question.
As a final note. Tom made a very good point when he mentioned PHAkT
updates. Interakt cannot guarantee that server behaviors will continue
to work when they release an update. They make changes, so there are
inevitable incompatabilities. The one thing that the PHP/MySQL Server
Model does do in DWMX, is give you a stable and solid platform that will
not be changed frequently. By supporting this Server Model fully, my
extensions will give you the same kind of reliability, because they will
be built on secure foundations.
Many thanks, and all the best
Tim Green
t...@rawveg.freeserve.co.uk
Develop real purchasing power for your website with IntelliCART,
the PHP Shopping Cart Management System for UltraDev 4.
-= www.rawveg.org =-
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The Complete Resource for Macromedia Designers & Developers
Sign up for your free electronic Preview Issue
http://www.mxinsite.com
Brent Colflesh
It will be interesting - the Phakt model is overwhelmingly superior to
the MX implementation as it stands & Phakt2 looks like it is right around
the corner - instead of going backwards a couple years, I think I'll
continue to refine my hand-coding and see what happens...
Regards,
Brent
"Tim Green" <t...@rawveg.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns9202EFCD0990Fti...@207.88.221.53...
Alexandru COSTIN
Sorry for the late replies we were celebrating the Easter (we're Ortodox) so
we were off the offices.
> What horrifies me most, is that Interakt, instead of taking the blow of
> a native PHP model on the chin, and working around it, have decided
> instead to compete against the native PHP Server Model in DWMX. Frankly
> that's a no-brainer. It would be far better to enhance what is already
> there than to throw it out of the window before it has properly seen the
> light of day.
Tim, your affirmations are completely wrong, as we have started fr
om the PHP_MySQL server model to create PHAkt2.
As a matter of fact, we have already created it, and we are relea
sing a public beta this end of the week.
> This might sound a little out of turn, for those who don't know me. But
> over the last 18 months or so,I have been flying the PHAkT flag, so to
> speak. I was a contributing developer on PHAkT, and a contracted
> developer on ImpAKT and NeXTensio. I have released, some 16 free
> extensions, and have built a commercial PHP Shopping Cart system for
> PHAkT/ImpAKT, called IntelliCART.
We are aware of your support for the PHP community and we appreciate it.
> I have already committed to supporting the PHP/MySQL Server Model in
> DWMX. If it means that I have to make this server model, database
> independant, I will do that. If it means that I have to commit hundreds
> (or thousands) of hours into development, then I will do that too. I can
> do it for one server model, three is out of the question.
Tim. This is a great mistake. You are adding a fourth's server model
to the already long server model list.
> As a final note. Tom made a very good point when he mentioned PHAkT
> updates. Interakt cannot guarantee that server behaviors will continue
> to work when they release an update. They make changes, so there are
> inevitable incompatabilities. The one thing that the PHP/MySQL Server
> Model does do in DWMX, is give you a stable and solid platform that will
> not be changed frequently. By supporting this Server Model fully, my
> extensions will give you the same kind of reliability, because they will
> be built on secure foundations.
> Many thanks, and all the best
So let me show how see this Tim: hostile takeover. We have worked a
lot to create PHAkt, and you want to take it away from us. This is not nice.
We have indeed created an unstable platform (for extension developers
), but this was due to the fact that we were continuosly upgrading our
server model, correcting bugs, etc. We have indeed ignored the ext
ension developers, and this was bad, but we have learnt a lesson now and
we'll behave much nicer in the future.
However, we think this is a declaration of war from your side, and
we are powerful competitors. We'll do our best to fight with you to eliminat
e this threat.
Sincerely,
Alexandru
>
> Tim Green
> t...@rawveg.freeserve.co.uk
>
> Develop real purchasing power for your website with IntelliCART,
> the PHP Shopping Cart Management System for UltraDev 4.
>
> -= www.rawveg.org =-
>
> MX inSite Magazine
> The Complete Resource for Macromedia Designers & Developers
> Sign up for your free electronic Preview Issue
> http://www.mxinsite.com
--
-----------------------
Alexandru COSTIN
Product Manager
http://www.interakt.ro/
+401 411 2610
Massimo Foti
news:ab5t6t$fmr$1...@forums.macromedia.com...
> However, we think this is a declaration of war from your side, and
> we are powerful competitors. We'll do our best to fight with you to
eliminat
> e this threat.
Alexandru, I sincerely think that, before making such kind of statements in
public you should think twice, contact all the people involved privately and
be sure to clarify any potential misunderstanding.
NGs and emails aren't so great to communicate about complex topics,
especially for people like you and me that aren't english native speakers.
Massimo
Massimo Foti
> I don't recall *any* of the extensions developers that would have
> raised this problem in a very serious way. Maybe we could have prevented
thi
> s much earlier, but you were all complaining inside, without forcing us to
> remain backward compatible (I still recall Tom Muck with one email abou
> t this problem, but that was all).
We communicate a little bit about my PHP Include extension, but there wasn't
enough commitment on both side to solve the issue... We were simply too
busy, both you and me :-)
Massimo
Alexandru COSTIN
> Alexandru, I sincerely think that, before making such kind of statements
> in public you should think twice, contact all the people involved
> privately and be sure to clarify any potential misunderstanding.
> NGs and emails aren't so great to communicate about complex topics,
> especially for people like you and me that aren't english native speakers.
t also affect my rational judgement right now.
Anyway, there have been some things that happened that lit
erally overwhelmed me. I have never expected such a virulent attack, befo
re any communication with me.
I don't recall *any* of the extensions developers that would have
raised this problem in a very serious way. Maybe we could have prevented thi
s much earlier, but you were all complaining inside, without forcing us to
remain backward compatible (I still recall Tom Muck with one email abou
t this problem, but that was all).
Alexandru
>
> Massimo