Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX

[krohr1]

Just a quick note to anyone who witnessed the antics of 3/4 Master's
racer who was "very briefly" in the lead near the end of the race. I
was running 2nd right behind him and he outright verbally abused
someone he was passing on a corner (a lapped rider) near the pit.

It was really not cool to do that to a lapped rider and I just wanted
to mention how embarrassed I was to be anywhere near that guy. The
fella eventually faded to 3rd, but I just wanted to make certain that
it was clear that no AFC racer would ever show such disrespect to a
fellow racer.

Something similar happened to one of our guys last week at Tacchino in
the Cat 4 race.
There's no place for this type of behavior in 'cross. Sure, we train
and race hard, but we usually see one another pretty regularly, so
let's try to keep it a cool sport and avoid uncool behavior.

If someone can forward this to the VACx list-serve I would appreciate
it.

Keith Rohr
Adventures for the Cure

[Marc Warner]

People sometimes do funny things when tired.  Perhaps a personal note would have been in order rather than staking out the moral highground and calling someone out on a public forum. --- On Mon, 11/16/09, krohr1 <kro...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Sean Yeager]

Marc-
Tired isn't an excuse- it's unacceptable in a race situation. From personal experience in last weekend's race, and a post-race conversation last weekend, I can see this rider hasn't taken my advice.

I don't like the posting in a public forum, either, but sometimes it's the only way to make someone understand how they're perceived by others. I know this rider personally, and I'm surprised to see this from him.

Apologies in advance to those who agree with Marc,
Sean

--
Sean Yeager
804.402.6257
csye...@gmail.com

[harlow]

i think this kind of behavior should be nipped in the bud. remember,
typically there is a kid's race at noon.
lots of kids and families watching the race. we are guests in the
host city. you wouldn't go to dinner and yell at another guest so why
do it at a cross race? one time i was lapped by georgia gould and as
she went by me she said,” great race, keep up the good work." cx is
kinda like that. no tude. let's keep it that way.
e

[Beth Mason]

In that vain I deeply regret the four letter expletive that escaped my mouth during one of my many crashes yesterday (but this one very close to spectators).  It was heat of the moment, but I will try to be better!

--
Beth Mason, PT, OCS
SICI, SICI Adv
www.bethbikes.com
410-562-4776

[Joseph Jefferson]

Profanity shouted at yourself is one thing.  However, jaw jacking with another competitor in the heat of battle is clearly another.  I see the sport of cross being a bit like mountain biking was when it first started out.  All of the riders were laid back and just racing to have fun.  Then those darn road bikers got involved and things started to go south.  The more competitive the sport of cross gets the more situations like this we will have to deal with.  --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Beth Mason <bethb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[William Schieken]

I think it is within the realm of possibility to be competitive (even, dare I say, as competitive as a road racer) and still not be a jerk. 

---

Joseph Jefferson wrote:

Profanity shouted at yourself is one thing.  However, jaw jacking with another competitor in the heat of battle is clearly another.  I see the sport of cross being a bit like mountain biking was when it first started out.  All of the riders were laid back and just racing to have fun.  Then those darn road bikers got involved and things started to go south.  The more competitive the sport of cross gets the more situations like this we will have to deal with.  --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Beth Mason <bethb...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Beth Mason <bethb...@gmail.com> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX To: e.ha...@hotmail.com Cc: "MABRA-USCF" <mabra...@googlegroups.com> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:07 AM

In that vain I deeply regret the four letter expletive that escaped my mouth during one of my many crashes yesterday (but this one very close to spectators).  It was heat of the moment, but I will try to be better!

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:54 AM, harlow <e.ha...@hotmail.com> wrote:

i think this kind of behavior should be nipped in the bud.  remember, typically there is a kid's race at noon. lots of kids and families watching the race.  we are guests in the host city.  you wouldn't go to dinner and yell at another guest so why do it at a cross race?  one time i was lapped by georgia gould and as she went by me she said,” great race, keep up the good work."  cx is kinda like that.  no tude.  let's keep it that way. e

On Nov 15, 10:50 pm, krohr1 <kro..@gmail.com> wrote: > Just a quick note to anyone who witnessed the antics of 3/4 Master's > racer who was "very briefly" in the lead near the end of the race. I > was running 2nd right behind him and he outright verbally abused > someone he was passing on a corner (a lapped rider) near the pit. > > It was really not cool to do that to a lapped rider and I just wanted > to mention how embarrassed I was to be anywhere near that guy. The > fella eventually faded to 3rd, but I just wanted to make certain that > it was clear that no AFC racer would ever show such disrespect to a > fellow racer. > > Something similar happened to one of our guys last week at Tacchino in > the Cat 4 race. > There's no place for this type of behavior in 'cross. Sure, we train > and race hard, but we usually see one another pretty regularly, so > let's try to keep it a cool sport and avoid uncool behavior. > > If someone can forward this to the VACx list-serve I would appreciate > it. > > Keith Rohr > Adventures for the Cure

[krohr1]

An email sent to me:

"I was standing in the pit when this happened, and the rider not only
verbally abused the lapped rider, he also put his hand on the other
rider and pushed him aggressively to the outside of the turn...."

Not cool.

And, yes, it should be made public because it happened to one of our
15 year-old riders last week. Extremely uncool.

Keith Rohr

On Nov 16, 8:45 am, Joseph Jefferson <max41...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Profanity shouted at yourself is one thing.  However, jaw jacking with another competitor in the heat of battle is clearly another.  I see the sport of cross being a bit like mountain biking was when it first started out.  All of the riders were laid back and just racing to have fun.  Then those darn road bikers got involved and things started to go south.  The more competitive the sport of cross gets the more situations like this we will have to deal with. 
>

> --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX
> To: e.har...@hotmail.com
> Cc: "MABRA-USCF" <mabra...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:07 AM
>
> In that vain I deeply regret the four letter expletive that escaped my mouth during one of my many crashes yesterday (but this one very close to spectators).  It was heat of the moment, but I will try to be better!
>

> SICI, SICI Advwww.bethbikes.com              410-562-4776        410-562-4776- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jeff Anderson]

It is just unnecessary to berate anyone ... even if a safety issue is concerned - the latter can be handled in a straight forward manner.  That guy berated might not come back to race....is that what we want?  

And what is on the line here....a tube/tire/$50 maybe.  Geesh....pass when you can and do it quickly.  Announce your presence and intentions but dont' berate someone.  

Passing someone is your responsibility ...just like in skiing the downhill skier has the right of way...as does the rider being passed.  

As Mimi says....know the rules:

1Q5. Abuse. (a) No rider or licensee may be disrespectful toward organizers, officials, riders or spectators [warning for minor offense; possible relegation of rider; and/or up to a $50 fine]. (b) No rider or licensee may use foul or abusive language or conduct during a race event [disqualification and 15 days suspension].

 

Regards

Jeff Anderson

[Frank Loversky]

In addition, it is also unsafe. Especially for novice riders. An experienced rider can literally shout a novice off the course with the potential to injure the novice rider. Not exactly a good way to grow the sport.

 

IMO, this is one example where the rider should be immediately called out for his bad behavior.

---

From: mabra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mabra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Anderson
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:59 AM
To: MABRA-USCF; vacy...@googlegroups.com

[Ryan Douglas]

Public Action = Public Response.  I am sure Sen. Vitter would have liked to have his "call-girl" slip up remain a polite little off the the record email.

[brian]

I don't quote Kissinger much but he rightly said that academic
politics (he used to be a prof) are so vicious precisely because the
stakes are so small.

And I think that should be a sobering reflection on our local amateur
scene, too, where we're fighting for t-shirts and gift cards. This
"As Toto Turns" stuff is for guys with millions on the line.
http://velocitynation.com/content/toto/2008/toto-turns-102

I'm with the scribes who point out that this won't grow the sport and
fits us all into the accepted narrative that cyclists (especially
lycra-clad) are the biggest pricks on the road and despised by cops,
motorists, pedestrians and even school safety patrols.

Let's stop behaving like elite pros (as we can't ride like them) and
being dismissive of every type or rider we used to be as we improved
in the sport. Or maybe we don't want more folks in the sport because
we wouldn't win as many gift cards? :-)

On Nov 16, 10:27 am, Ryan Douglas <rdougla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Public Action = Public Response.  I am sure Sen. Vitter would have liked to
> have his "call-girl" slip up remain a polite little off the the record
> email.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Frank Loversky <
>

> frank.lover...@tools4media.com> wrote:
> >  In addition, it is also unsafe. Especially for novice riders. An
> > experienced rider can literally shout a novice off the course with the
> > potential to injure the novice rider. Not exactly a good way to grow the
> > sport.
>
> > IMO, this is one example where the rider should be immediately called out
> > for his bad behavior.
>

> >  ------------------------------
> > *From:* mabra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mabra...@googlegroups.com] *On
> > Behalf Of *Jeff Anderson
> > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 9:59 AM
> > *To:* MABRA-USCF; vacy...@googlegroups.com
>
> > *Subject:* [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX

>
> >    It is just unnecessary to berate anyone ... even if a safety issue is
> > concerned - the latter can be handled in a straight forward manner.  That
> > guy berated might not come back to race....is that what we want?
>
> > And what is on the line here....a tube/tire/$50 maybe.  Geesh....pass when
> > you can and do it quickly.  Announce your presence and intentions but dont'
> > berate someone.
>
> > Passing someone is your responsibility ...just like in skiing the downhill
> > skier has the right of way...as does the rider being passed.
>
> > As Mimi says....know the rules:
>

> > *1Q5. Abuse. (a) *No rider or licensee may be disrespectful toward

> > organizers, officials, riders or spectators [warning for minor offense;

> > possible relegation of rider; and/or up to a $50 fine]. *(b) *No rider or

> > licensee may use foul or abusive language or conduct during a race event
> > [disqualification and 15 days suspension].
>
> > Regards
>
> > Jeff Anderson
>
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:35 AM, William Schieken <
> > william.schie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I think it is within the realm of possibility to be competitive (even,
> >> dare I say, as competitive as a road racer) and still not be a jerk.
>

> >> ------------------------------

> >>  Joseph Jefferson wrote:
>
> >>   Profanity shouted at yourself is one thing.  However, jaw jacking with
> >> another competitor in the heat of battle is clearly another.  I see the
> >> sport of cross being a bit like mountain biking was when it first started
> >> out.  All of the riders were laid back and just racing to have fun.  Then
> >> those darn road bikers got involved and things started to go south.  The
> >> more competitive the sport of cross gets the more situations like this we
> >> will have to deal with.
>

> >> --- On *Mon, 11/16/09, Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> >> From: Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com>

> >> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX
> >> To: e.har...@hotmail.com
> >> Cc: "MABRA-USCF" <mabra...@googlegroups.com>
> >> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:07 AM
>
> >> In that vain I deeply regret the four letter expletive that escaped my
> >> mouth during one of my many crashes yesterday (but this one very close to
> >> spectators).  It was heat of the moment, but I will try to be better!
>

> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:54 AM, harlow <e.har...@hotmail.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=e.har...@hotmail.com>

> >> > wrote:
>
> >>> i think this kind of behavior should be nipped in the bud.  remember,
> >>> typically there is a kid's race at noon.
> >>> lots of kids and families watching the race.  we are guests in the
> >>> host city.  you wouldn't go to dinner and yell at another guest so why
> >>> do it at a cross race?  one time i was lapped by georgia gould and as
> >>> she went by me she said,” great race, keep up the good work."  cx is
> >>> kinda like that.  no tude.  let's keep it that way.
> >>> e

> >>> On Nov 15, 10:50 pm, krohr1 <kr...@gmail.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kro...@gmail.com>>

[Jon Hansen]

Pros tend to not behave like that.  Just sayin'

jon.

On Nov 16, 2009 8:58 AM, "brian" <bhenn...@gmail.com> wrote:


I don't quote Kissinger much but he rightly said that academic
politics (he used to be a prof) are so vicious precisely because the
stakes are so small.

And I think that should be a sobering reflection on our local amateur
scene, too, where we're fighting for t-shirts and gift cards.  This
"As Toto Turns" stuff is for guys with millions on the line.
http://velocitynation.com/content/toto/2008/toto-turns-102

I'm with the scribes who point out that this won't grow the sport and
fits us all into the accepted narrative that cyclists (especially
lycra-clad) are the biggest pricks on the road and despised by cops,
motorists, pedestrians and even school safety patrols.

Let's stop behaving like elite pros (as we can't ride like them) and
being dismissive of every type or rider we used to be as we improved
in the sport.  Or maybe we don't want more folks in the sport because
we wouldn't win as many gift cards?  :-)

On Nov 16, 10:27 am, Ryan Douglas <rdougla...@gmail.com> wrote: > Public Action = Public Response. ...

> frank.lover...@tools4media.com> wrote: > >  In addition, it is also unsafe. Especially for novice ...

> > william.schie...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> I think it is within the realm of possibility to be co...

> >> --- On *Mon, 11/16/09, Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> >> From: Beth Mason <bethbik...@gmail.com>

> >> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX

> >> To: e.har...@hotmail.com

> >> Cc: "MABRA-USCF" <mabra...@googlegroups.com> > >> Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 8:07 AM > ...

> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:54 AM, harlow <e.har...@hotmail.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=e.har...@hotmail.com>

> >> > wrote: > > >>> i think this kind of behavior should be nipped in the bud.  remember, > >>> ty...

> >>> On Nov 15, 10:50 pm, krohr1 <kr...@gmail.com<http://us.mc560.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kro...@gmail.com>>

> >>> wrote: > >>> > Just a quick note to anyone who witnessed the antics of 3/4 Master's > >>> > ra...

[Scott]

Really?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/baker-gets-three-month-suspension

http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2009/10/05/the-crash-heard-round-the-world

On Nov 16, 12:02 pm, Jon Hansen <jonyew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pros tend to not behave like that.  Just sayin'
>
> jon.
>

> On Nov 16, 2009 8:58 AM, "brian" <bhennes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't quote Kissinger much but he rightly said that academic
> politics (he used to be a prof) are so vicious precisely because the
> stakes are so small.
>
> And I think that should be a sobering reflection on our local amateur
> scene, too, where we're fighting for t-shirts and gift cards.  This

> "As Toto Turns" stuff is for guys with millions on the line.http://velocitynation.com/content/toto/2008/toto-turns-102

[Kemal Tuncer]

Oh, really (part deux).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JMY68cS9gw

[Mike West]

Here's to less cussing and more funny costumes/kits...CX is too good of a thing to waste. 

As a relative newcomer, I find this topic useful, btw.  I regularly invite friends/coworkers to come spectate, because I tend to push harder when there are bell-ringing people on the other side of the tape.

Mike

--
--
mike west
mi...@wodell.com

[Jon Hansen]

I love how everybody tries to prove everyone else wrong.  Good times.

I said tend not to, didn't say never.  When it happens in the pros it's publicized.  Doesn't mean that it happens all the time.

I've done a lot of racing from Cat. 5 on up and there's a hell of a lot less douchbaggery and yelling in the pro races.

I'm just saying that to say don't belittle your fellow racers because you're not pro makes no sense.  The pros I know tend ( I said tend) to be super cool and supportive of all the other racers and way less full of themselves than the majority of masters racers.

Flame away.

Jon.

On Nov 16, 2009 9:16 AM, "Kemal Tuncer" <kmas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, really (part deux).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JMY68cS9gw

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Scott <scer...@me.com> wrote: > > > Really? > > http://www.cy...

[Ruth L. Stornetta]

And not to forget the Bart Wellens move (although towards the fans, not a
fellow racer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salfFYuinwY

-Ruth

[Joseph Jefferson]

I think that we all can have our opinions and the list "may" be a place where we make our feelings known.  I would hope that we all recognize the fact that this list is accessible to younger riders, thus the need to mitigate the negative terminology used to make our points. --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Jon Hansen <jony...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jon Hansen <jony...@gmail.com> Subject: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX To: Cc: "MABRA-USCF" <mabra...@googlegroups.com>

[marc frazer]

If I ever pass anyone in a cross race i have to remember to curse at them

--- On Mon, 11/16/09, Joseph Jefferson <max4...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Ashley Halsey]

It's classier if you do it in a foreign language, Bengali, perhaps.

marc frazer <marc....@yahoo.com> Sent by: mabra...@googlegroups.com 11/16/2009 03:43 PM Please respond to marc....@yahoo.com

To max4...@yahoo.com cc MABRA-USCF <mabra...@googlegroups.com>

[Jeff Anderson]

UCI CX Rulebook, Section 54.3.2.1  All cursing at fellow racers will be in Belgian.  

Of course Andreas G chooses German as to him that is the center of the universe...that is why he complained about the Italian marching music at Tacchino.

---

From: Ashley Halsey <hal...@washpost.com>
To: marc....@yahoo.com
Cc: MABRA-USCF <mabra...@googlegroups.com>; max4...@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 4:01:37 PM

[Alexander Meller]

Dude,

 

There is more than one language spoken in Belgium..... can you be more specific?  Inquiring minds (like Mark) want to know.

 

 

--
Alexander "Ali" Meller
Team Latitude/ABRT bicycle racing
505 sailing/racing

[Jeff Anderson]

Well it sure ain't the French version...leaving Flemish I guess.  That is my final answer
 

---

From: Alexander Meller <alexande...@gmail.com>
To: jeffreya...@gmail.com
Cc: hal...@washpost.com; marc....@yahoo.com; MABRA-USCF <mabra...@googlegroups.com>; max4...@yahoo.com
Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 4:51:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MABRA-USCF] Re: Uncool behavior in the 3/4 Masters at Urban CX

[Blake]

damn those roadies!  the next thing you know, cross racers will be shaving their legs, training with power meters and doping

Sent from my iPhone

[CD]

Keith,
I'm very glad to hear your take on the incident; I was the pit
official and witnessed the entire incident. While no complaints were
filed filed, I did manage to fully document everything "just in
case", and to say that I found it distasteful as well is an
understatement.
Thanks for stepping up.

Kevin Long

On Nov 15, 10:50 pm, krohr1 <kro...@gmail.com> wrote: