Declaring & recording tasks among Oud, LXNav S100, and PowerFlarm Fusion
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Brian Hart
Apr 14, 2022, 3:24:40 AM4/14/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
This is a very inerudite and verbose question, so please bear with me. We purchased and got some help installing a PowerFlarm Fusion, LXNav S100, and Oudie last year for my then 14-year-old son. He is now 15 and seriously working on completing his Silver badge and planning to complete his Gold badge before he turns 16.
But the unexpected challenge has been our ignorance of how all these devices come together in the task declaration and flight recording processes. We are trying to avoid a situation in which he does some otherwise-qualifying flight and then discovers that the declaration was flawed or he did not actually touch the waypoints. Here is the environment in his Libelle 201:
1. We use SeeYou to plan tasks & waypoints, then export the .cup files to the devices.
2. The S100 is the visual output for the PowerFlarm traffic & collision avoidance.
3. We declare to the Flarm using the Flarm's WiFi interface
4. We declare to the S100 using a mini SD card.
5. We declare to the Oudie while it is connected to the computer.
Here is what I think I know at this point:
1. Both the Flarm & S100 are secure .igc recording devices; the Oudie2 is not. So we can use .igc files from only the Flarm & S100 for reporting badges & records; the Oudie is useful only as the task navigational tool and perhaps to confirm the output of the other two device for us and for OLC, though not officially for SSA/FAI.
2. The Flarm allows only a single task to be declared at any one time and continues to embed that task's C records into each subsequent .igc file until the declaration is removed or replaced by a different task.
3. The S100 records .igc files independently of the Flarm.
4. The S100 allows declaration/preconfiguration of multiple .igc files, of which one can then be considered actively declared via the S100 user interface at any one time. We put the tasks onto the micro SD card, then use the S100 interface to save them to the device and indicate/check the currently-active task.
5. The Oudie, with its larger screen, is a much better tool for actually flying the task than attempting to fly it using the S100's much smaller moving map or waypoint display.
How am I doing so far? It took much beating of my head against the wall and some contact with the SSAs badge person to get this far, so I hope that much is accurate.
And here is what I think that all means when put together.
1. We must declare & activate the current task to the Flarm once any time it is changed, since it cannot contain multiple tasks as can the S100.
2. The task declared to the Flarm must be identical to the one currently declared/activated on the S100 in order for them to record .igc files against the same task and be used to confirm each other.
3. We must declare the same tasks to the Oudie if we want to use the Oudie as the visual guide to the task on the assumption that it will indeed guide him accurately to the waypoints declared on the Flarm & S100 that are acting to produce dual corroborating records of the flight.
Again, how am I doing? Does this sound right? If not, someone please shoot holes in my theory now, before I reveal my ignorance any more deeply! But if I am correct so far, it still leaves three mysteries for us. The first two involve ways of consolidating the declaration process among the three devices; the third is something I may be able to get by digging more deeply into the FAI/SSA badge rules.
1. Is there a way to declare the current task from the S100 to the Flarm? I understand this may be dependent upon the configuration, and if necessary, I will contact the equipment seller to help determine this. But does it help knowing that the S100 is the visual output for the Flarm, or does that not imply any ability to push data from the S100 to the Flarm? If we can push from S100 to Flarm, then we can set up a plethora of possible tasks on the S100, then activate one appropriate to the day's weather and push that to the Flarm--all without having to declare the same task to the Flarm independently via the Flarm's WiFi interface.
2. Going a step further, is there a way to declare the current task to the Oudie from the computer and then, after connecting the Oudie in the glider (using the mini-USB connector), declare that same task to the S100 and from there to the Flarm? Again, I understand that this may depend on the specific connections, and I can verify that with the seller/configurator. But my question here is twofold: a) is there a valid physical connection configuration that will allow us to do this (and if so, is it likely to be something that was set up by default by the installer), thus allowing us to push all declarations out from the Oudie to either or both of the other two devices and b) if so, can you give us some tips on where in the Oudie and/or S100 interface we would push a task from the Oudie to the S100 and/or S100 to Flarm?
3. This is an FAI/SSA policy question I am still trying to figure out, not a technical one, just in the expectation that everyone here understands all of this much better than I do: when we declare turnpoints, do the devices automatically begin the task when the flight begins (or at release from tow) and automatically determine the endpoint/line of the task at the last valid moment (i.e. where LoH is still over 1% of the total distance) before landing, or do we have to declare the task begin & end points/lines? From the result I have seen whe doing test declarations, it appears to be the former: only the waypoints end up being declared, and the start & end are calculated automatically from the .igc file.
Any help is much appreciated. My son flew several silver badge altitude and distance qualifying flights last year at the age of 14, but the technicalities of declaration (no longer required for silver badgen now) prevented us from getting them into the SSA in a timely manner, so he is having to do it all again, and we do not want to miss out on technicalities again. Besides this, if we can get this figured out, we can document it all so that other members of our local organization (Hood River Soaring in Hood River Oregon) can begin working on their badges and record attempts.
But the unexpected challenge has been our ignorance of how all these devices come together in the task declaration and flight recording processes. We are trying to avoid a situation in which he does some otherwise-qualifying flight and then discovers that the declaration was flawed or he did not actually touch the waypoints. Here is the environment in his Libelle 201:
1. We use SeeYou to plan tasks & waypoints, then export the .cup files to the devices.
2. The S100 is the visual output for the PowerFlarm traffic & collision avoidance.
3. We declare to the Flarm using the Flarm's WiFi interface
4. We declare to the S100 using a mini SD card.
5. We declare to the Oudie while it is connected to the computer.
Here is what I think I know at this point:
1. Both the Flarm & S100 are secure .igc recording devices; the Oudie2 is not. So we can use .igc files from only the Flarm & S100 for reporting badges & records; the Oudie is useful only as the task navigational tool and perhaps to confirm the output of the other two device for us and for OLC, though not officially for SSA/FAI.
2. The Flarm allows only a single task to be declared at any one time and continues to embed that task's C records into each subsequent .igc file until the declaration is removed or replaced by a different task.
3. The S100 records .igc files independently of the Flarm.
4. The S100 allows declaration/preconfiguration of multiple .igc files, of which one can then be considered actively declared via the S100 user interface at any one time. We put the tasks onto the micro SD card, then use the S100 interface to save them to the device and indicate/check the currently-active task.
5. The Oudie, with its larger screen, is a much better tool for actually flying the task than attempting to fly it using the S100's much smaller moving map or waypoint display.
How am I doing so far? It took much beating of my head against the wall and some contact with the SSAs badge person to get this far, so I hope that much is accurate.
And here is what I think that all means when put together.
1. We must declare & activate the current task to the Flarm once any time it is changed, since it cannot contain multiple tasks as can the S100.
2. The task declared to the Flarm must be identical to the one currently declared/activated on the S100 in order for them to record .igc files against the same task and be used to confirm each other.
3. We must declare the same tasks to the Oudie if we want to use the Oudie as the visual guide to the task on the assumption that it will indeed guide him accurately to the waypoints declared on the Flarm & S100 that are acting to produce dual corroborating records of the flight.
Again, how am I doing? Does this sound right? If not, someone please shoot holes in my theory now, before I reveal my ignorance any more deeply! But if I am correct so far, it still leaves three mysteries for us. The first two involve ways of consolidating the declaration process among the three devices; the third is something I may be able to get by digging more deeply into the FAI/SSA badge rules.
1. Is there a way to declare the current task from the S100 to the Flarm? I understand this may be dependent upon the configuration, and if necessary, I will contact the equipment seller to help determine this. But does it help knowing that the S100 is the visual output for the Flarm, or does that not imply any ability to push data from the S100 to the Flarm? If we can push from S100 to Flarm, then we can set up a plethora of possible tasks on the S100, then activate one appropriate to the day's weather and push that to the Flarm--all without having to declare the same task to the Flarm independently via the Flarm's WiFi interface.
2. Going a step further, is there a way to declare the current task to the Oudie from the computer and then, after connecting the Oudie in the glider (using the mini-USB connector), declare that same task to the S100 and from there to the Flarm? Again, I understand that this may depend on the specific connections, and I can verify that with the seller/configurator. But my question here is twofold: a) is there a valid physical connection configuration that will allow us to do this (and if so, is it likely to be something that was set up by default by the installer), thus allowing us to push all declarations out from the Oudie to either or both of the other two devices and b) if so, can you give us some tips on where in the Oudie and/or S100 interface we would push a task from the Oudie to the S100 and/or S100 to Flarm?
3. This is an FAI/SSA policy question I am still trying to figure out, not a technical one, just in the expectation that everyone here understands all of this much better than I do: when we declare turnpoints, do the devices automatically begin the task when the flight begins (or at release from tow) and automatically determine the endpoint/line of the task at the last valid moment (i.e. where LoH is still over 1% of the total distance) before landing, or do we have to declare the task begin & end points/lines? From the result I have seen whe doing test declarations, it appears to be the former: only the waypoints end up being declared, and the start & end are calculated automatically from the .igc file.
Any help is much appreciated. My son flew several silver badge altitude and distance qualifying flights last year at the age of 14, but the technicalities of declaration (no longer required for silver badgen now) prevented us from getting them into the SSA in a timely manner, so he is having to do it all again, and we do not want to miss out on technicalities again. Besides this, if we can get this figured out, we can document it all so that other members of our local organization (Hood River Soaring in Hood River Oregon) can begin working on their badges and record attempts.
Alastair Mutch
Apr 14, 2022, 4:12:10 PM4/14/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
Hello Brian,
I have exactly the same set-up in my glider with an Oudie, S100 and PowerFlarm Fusion. I have all three devices connected together - flarm connects to the S100 Flarm port, Oudie connects to the PDA port using the S100 specific cable (do not try to use the Oudie data/power cable for this!) . Diagram 9.7.6 in the current S100 manual (ref 47) page 110 shows the wiring. The splitter for the flarm display must be the correct one to allow the data to flow to the display without interfering with the communications between the S100 and flarm.
You do need the LX cable from the S100 to Oudie if you don't already have this. The S100 also powers the Oudie.
To declare a task to the S100 and Flarm I open the task page in the Oudie and hit "upload". The Oudie sends the declaration to the S100, the S100 says "Sending declaration to Flarm" and then something like "Declaration sent successfully". It takes about 5 seconds and all devices have the same task.
The Oudie will quite happily display the flarm and ADS-B traffic from the Flarm on the map as well as allow you to adjust MC etc on either the S100 or Oudie and have both in sync. The manual explains exactly what data flows between the devices.
So set up your tasks on the Oudie rather than the S100 and life will become much simpler.
Alastair
Brian Hart
Apr 14, 2022, 5:18:45 PM4/14/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
Thank you so much! This should get us there. I am pretty sure the installer of this particular combination of instruments did all the required physical connections; the deficiency was purely between my ears--trying to connect the logical dots. We will definitely take your notes out to the gliderport with us the next time my son heads up in the Libelle, so he can hopefully get this all into his head and move forward with the process of declaring and flying tasks--and I can get back to work to help pay for all this aviation stuff!
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Brian Hart
May 14, 2022, 1:22:48 PM5/14/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
One more update that indicates partial success on my part. Everything is connected, but the Oudie would not upload the task until we unticked the box in the Oudie upload dialog indicating something like "FR connected to GPS port"... As soon as I unticked that, it connected, and the S100 virtually immediately uploaded to the Flarm.
So now we have the task on Oudie & Flarm but one bit of confusion still remaining: in the S100 menu, when I got to Tasks & Waypoints, no task file appears there after the upload, leading me to believe that the Oudie uploaded to the S100, and that the S100 then uploaded to the Flarm without retaining a local copy. When I put a task onto an SD card & into the S100, I can then pull the task onto the S100 (via the file menu, I believe)
To be clear, I expect the problem here is my ignorance of the three systems' inter-workings, not any deficiency in your explanation. At least we can get the task from Oudie to Flarm via S100, and we can get the badge .igc files back off the Flarm. But the last part that it seems I have not quite got is how to have the S100 retain that task so that we can use the S100 as a backup flight recorder to the Flarm, having the same task. Or maybe it does store the task, but I am lookin in the wrong place for it after the Oudie → S100 → Flarm upload.
Alastair Mutch
May 14, 2022, 5:13:42 PM5/14/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
Sounds good. Yes the "FR is connected to GPS Port" should be unticked. If this is ticked (as you need to do with the S80 club) then the declaration is sent directly to the Flarm bypassing the S80/S100. You want the same task in both S100 and Flarm so unticked is what you need.
On the S100 just go to the "Task Mode" set of pages - see the manual section 5.6. There you should see the task you just uploaded there on the map page. If you do a short press on the lower know and select "Edit" then you should be able to edit the uploaded task to confirm that it has loaded as expected (don't try this in the air or else the S100 tries to updated the task in the flarm which, quite rightly, rejects it as you a flying and the S100 eventually displays an error message after several attempts to upload the new task to the flarm.)
The "Set-up Mode" menu "Files" with submenu "Task and waypoints" that you are confused about allows you to load saved task from the S100 internal memory or from the SD card. You will not see the task uploaded from the Oudie in these list - that's correct behaviour. If you want to populate this list you have to load tasks onto an SD card and then load those into the S100. I've never felt the need to do this.
Alastair
Brian Hart
May 16, 2022, 3:11:51 AM5/16/22
to LXNav Soaring Glider Equipment User Discussion Group
Thank you again, Alistair!
My problem is that every time I go to the gliderport, an hour drive from home, I fall immediately into my role as youth coordinator with six or seven of our 13 pre-licensed youth members, and all my time is consumed coordinating their ground operations training at the same time I am fulfilling field manager duties for the day. So it is only occasionally that I can sneak over to the Libelle and try to look at the interface with my 15-year-old son that is its actual pilot and working on completing his silver and gold badges. For the moment, I am going to pass your information directly and ensure he knows how to do all of this.
I appreciate your detailed notes very much!
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