England's Chat Archive

[Zach]

Chat archive
11:22 AM (To: Global, from Germany) - Well done turkey. Are we going
to go back over this on LW? I don't think much actual formal game
theory was used, but discussing the game could still prove
interesting.
Tue 03 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Aside from potential center
shuffle in Brest, only one question remains: Will Italy survive?
Tue 03 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Reminder to all: I will be
publishing my full communication logs at the conclusion of the game,
and encourage others to do the same. If there is anything you wish me
to censor (so far no one has requested anything) please say so before
the conclusion of the game.
Tue 02 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - ...and that's game. Moscow
supports Ukr-War, Gal-Vie, Vie-Tri, Rom S Ven, Ion-Nap and the eastern
17 are safe plus Portugal means 18. Good game, everyone!
Tue 11 AM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Aw shucks, France
really did cooperate! I admit I did not expect that to happen given
our previous interactions, but I am glad that the desire to win won
out, so to speak. I figured France would defect, Turkey's victory was
guaranteed, and that I would get the highest ending score by taking as
many SCs as possible this turn.

Good game guys. This has been eating my life and I am VERY eager to
move on.
Mon 05 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Best of luck to
you, Turkey!
Mon 05 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Okay, the moves
for this turn are finalized.

Russia: StP-Bar, Gal-Ukr, Tyr-Boh, Mun-Sil, Kie-Ber, Hol-Hel, Ruh-Mun,
Par H.

England: Nor-StP, Den-Bal, Lon-Yor, Eng S Bre-Mid, Gas S Gul-Spa

France: Mar-Pie, Bur-Mar, Bel-Pic, Bre-Mid

Italy: Gul-Spa
Mon 03 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

Okay, so, I don't think Gas can support Italy into the SOUTH coast of
Spain, which means we need to make some changes:

Mar S Gul-Spa, Bre S Gas-Mid, Eng-Iri, Nor-Eng, Hol-Nor. That keeps
Turkey out of Irish Sea and English Channel, forces him to retreat to
NAO or Portugal. My fleet can then convoy Yor-Den next turn (should
probably double-check the rules on this), or move to Norwegian Sea to
contain, depending on the situation.

Par-Gas, Bur-Par, to take back the SC and get my army in position to
support Spa or Mar. Bel-Ruh, France can then move the army to the
front, or take my SC in Hol next turn, depending on whether my
northern fleet will be useful or not.

Let's check those rules, and make sure I'm not making a mistake
anywhere. What if he goes MAO-Irish and bounces the fleet, can he then
retreat into Irish anyway?
Mon 02 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Hey England, can Gas
actually support Italy into the SOUTH coast of Spain? Please see if
that is an option for you. If not, then we have to use Mar to support,
which would be a shame. It would allow you to bounce in Irish Sea,
however, and still have Bre and Gas support into MAO...
Mon 02 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

FYI, just in case something weird happens where I keep an extra SC for
some reason, I am now moving Hol-Hel instead. That way I could
potentially keep a fleet up north, to help England convoy across North
Sea while he kills off the northern Turkish fleet.
Mon 02 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

I just realized that MAO could move to Irish Sea, shit. That puts Lvp
at risk, plus he could still potentially cut MAO's support into
Portugal if he so chooses. We should move Lon-Yor, to potentially
guard Lvp and optionally still convoy into Den next turn. That means
one less army in the north, but it can defend Lvp and Edi both against
a fleet behind the lines. We should be able to hold StP and War
without that extra army from England, but we can't make progress
against Moscow immediately, and we have to get the convoy chain going
after this year's builds.

Even if we move Eng-Iri to potentially bounce, he can still retreat to
NAO, and harass Scandinavia the following year, plus that means Mar
has to support into Spain instead of moving to Pie... Long run, that
fleet behind the lines will allow him to make progress in the north,
if we don't find a way to contain and destroy it. Depending on how
things play out, England might want to build another fleet next turn,
to force Turkey's fleet into a disband the following year.
Mon 10 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: This is going to
Italy, France and England:

We only have one chance to get a five-way draw instead of an outright
Turkish victory.

My moves are StP-Bar, Gal-Ukr, Tyr-Boh, Mun-Sil, Kie-Ber, Hol-Kie, Ruh-
Mun, Par H.

England should go Nor-StP, Den-Bal, Nor C Lon-Den.

France goes Mar-Pie, Bur-Mar, Bel-Pic. Either Mar bounces, in which
case Pic and Bur support into Paris to disband my army, or the move
succeeds and next turn I move Par-Bur. France keeps 4 SCs.

The three of you combined go Eng S Bre-Mid, Gas S Gul-Spa. That keeps
Italy alive and removes 1 SC from Turkey.

Turkey takes Mos, Nap, Por, and we hold him at 17. With perfect play I
don't think we can also take Portugal, unless Italy is willing to
sacrifice himself (which defeats the purpose of the deal), but maybe
it is possible: next turn definitely Mid S Spa-Por, and maybe Gas S
Mar-Spa depending on Turkey's moves this turn.

I will keep 4 SCs (Warsaw + Germany), to keep my four armies alive on
the eastern front. StP goes to England, and next turn he moves Eng-
Hol, to build armies in Lon and Edi. France gets Paris, loses
Portugal, stays at 4 SCs (unless Mar-Spa succeeds and that leaves Mar
open for a fleet build!). For the following year of builds, England
and France can trade SCs as needed in order to remove extraneous
fleets and build fleets and armies in the right locations.
Sun 10 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: gg no re
Sun 10 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Your call; he may
make a mad dash to try and finish with as many centers as possible.
Sun 09 PM (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1907: think I might go for
glascony anyway... brest should fall either way.
Sun 09 PM (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1907: i agree. interesting
he supported portugal in favor of the channel. weakens my position in
iberia but strengthens [potentially] on the mainland. Russia won't be
happy that it's getting crowded.
Sun 08 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Actually, given I can
support you into Brest it's an interesting option to retreat off the
board and build a fleet in Edi.
Sun 06 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Wow he actually
bought that; gives us an extra unit. Gascony is the obvious retreat.
Sun 04 PM (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1907: I'm going to wait
until after this turn to decide if Russia is hostile, I won't reject
your offer yet but lets just say I'm skeptical about anyone offering
me deals.
Sun 04 PM (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1907: did russia tell you
he's going to attack scandanavia? why do you trust this after he
stabbed you?
Sun 02 PM (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1907: I tried; I failed.

Anyways, let me be blunt. Turkey will get a solo win if you continue
to fight me and Russia. Neither Russia and I have enough force to
attack you and win, given that we're worrying about each even now,
when we're so near defeat. If you continue to support Turkey, then you
merely survive, while otherwise you can get a draw.

As it is, I'm going to cover Portugal and the English Channel, and
Russia's going to attack Sweden, Norway, and/or Denmark. You can't
make any progress against us anyways. I'm willing to support you into
the Western Mediterranean next turn; if you want me to, then attack
this turn, and I'll hold Spain from Marseilles. A response would also
be nice.
Sun 8 AM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Italy's problem is
that it's hard to get big. You're often stuck at 4 centers, attacking
Turkey leaves you exposed to Austria and France while not attacking
Turkey leaves you with an ally who has tactical advantage on you and
wants to go through you in the midgame. Neither option is fun, and
often you do all right but are outpaced by another player. Austria's
problem is survival, and for him centers are vital. If you can pick up
the entire Balkans, Austria becomes strong, but Turkey is still very
hard to work with without giving him the edge and Russia will often
outpace you as an ally. Italy should be first choice if you have that
option.

The issue for Germany is that he's never strong enough to survive an
attack by everyone, and if he gets into a 2-on-1 in the west as the
strong 1 then what happens this game tends to happen: Eventually
Russia or Austria shows up. Many players will see Germany take Belgium
and then feel like the German isn't offering enough or is greedy or
can't be trusted, whereas once England or France is taken down you can
split the centers however you like to make it fair.
Sun 4 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Let me know what
you're doing with North Sea either way. If you're support moving into
the Channel, then you can go Den-Nor and I will move Kie-Hel and take
Holland the following turn instead. Giving me the build now as
insurance against a true Turkish stab, so I can build an army in
Moscow, would be a good idea.
Sun 3 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Personally I don't
find this particularly credible, although if he knows he is dead
anyway he might as well be vindictive about it... I am not really sure
if I should trust him either. It might be useful for North Sea to
support Kie-Hol just to make sure it is successful. That is two SC
down at least, plus maybe another on your end, plus whatever Turkey
manages to do down south. He can't do much against us despite his
threats if he doesn't have any units.
Sun 3 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Zvi is correct, I
stabbed France.

France just sent me this letter: "Hmmm. Ok, how's this. You need to
build an army in Moscow; you also need to have a secure Western flank.
I can guarantee you that, if you take Paris, I'll shift my entire army
northwards and fight you to the death; using Marseilles and Brest, and
disbanding Tuscany, I can prevent you from making any more progress
for another few turns, at least. Instead, I'll offer you peace and
Holland if you attack Turkey and leave Burgundy; I'll also move my
armies to the South, and keep fighting Turkey. (By offer Holland, I
mean not support it from Belgium; you'll need to use both your army
and fleet to take it, and I'll disband the unit afterwards.)

Incidentally, just so you know that this is credible: I rejected five
separate peace offers from Germany, and two from Italy, after I'd told
them that I would destroy them. If I'm doomed to die either way, I'm
taking you down with me. I'd suggest that you let me live in peace."
Sat 06 PM (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1907: I would have
thought that Austria is weaker then Italy, as Austria can be attacked
by G/I/R/T, while Italy can only be attacked by F/A, neither of whom
generally want to attack Italy, and given openings like the lepanto
Italy can get off to a good start in the opening. And as I said,
Germany's 3 nearby SCs mean Germany can build up a lot of strength
quickly if he can avoid being attacked from all sides.
The stats I found said that Italy is 7th, Austria is 6th and Germany
is 3rd - so you're right about Austria and Italy. Germany isn't a poor
starting country, but I'm lumping it in with Austria as a central
power which can be attacked from all sides, so perhaps the two
countries should be considering similar strategies.
The problem with giving Belgium away is that it can make the other
country too powerful - for instance France could get 6 SCs in the
first year, and once England is defeated Germany can still be attacked
by Russia and Austria, or whoever has conquered them and taken their
place, while France boarders Italy (the weakest country) and a Russian
fleet or two. Basically, I would have thought Germany needs to take
more SCs then it's ally to compensate for it's vulnerable flanks.
Sat 05 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: You don't need to
tell me which way you're going, since my move doesn't change either
way and there are arguments for both.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: My other piece of
related advice: F Kiel - Denmark. A fleet in Belgium and an army in
Denmark are both out of position and annoying, and neither works out
all that often.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: In general, my
biggest piece of advice to future players of Germany is: Do not take
Belgium. Trade it to France or England, depending on who you want to
work with.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: My opinion is that
Italy is very weak, but that Austria is fine and Germany is solid. The
statistics back this up. Austria is high variance, if not quite as
high as Russia; a successful Austria can get very big quickly.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1907: Thanks for the
game guys, I look forward to going over the game and perhaps trying to
think of some strategies for G/A/I to stop them getting crushed from
all sides in future! Not that I am blaming my defeat upon bad luck in
starting country - Germany has strengths in starting near 3 SCs,
unlike A/I who are just very weak.

Hope to play again soon.
Fri 7 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1907: I'm not planning on
taking holland or belgium this year but i want at least one of them...
probably go after Brest, pic and bel, or maybe holland via Denmark
depending on what you do.

Not planning on stabbing you, though I want turkey to think i'm on his
side (hence moving my army into scandanavia).

Was zvi right that you made a deal with France and stabbed? i haven't
ruled out the possibility that he just made a bonehead mistake
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Alternate play, by
the way (devil's move): Mid-Bre, Lon-Nts, Nts-Nwy, Nwy-Fin, Wal-Yor.
This gives you a lock on St. Petersberg next year, and he likely
orders Bre-Eng leaving Brest open.
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: I recommend
supporting English Channel in with North Sea this turn. Norway and
Denmark can intentionally clash in Sweden just in case Russia gets
cute, since it's a free action.
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: My proposal: You'll
move to Portugal. I'll support an attack on Spain. He can't stop both,
it's his call.
Fri 7 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1907: ok, that's agreeable
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: Once Italy takes a
supply center elsewhere, maybe he will be willing to rebel? Worth a
shot at the very least. I would think Zvi would rather use him in non-
SC positions to avoid giving him a build, although I guess he could
always just agree not to build at all...

I am willing to have an army in Sweden. When we eventually swap
territories before the final showdown, you can either do a convoy
chain (including my own fleets), or I will disband it and you can
rebuild somewhere more useful.
Fri 7 Jan (To: France, from you) - Spring, 1907: Turkey is planning on
taking spain, possibly with Italian forces. I suggest offering Italy a
deal sweeter than being a turkish vassal-state
Fri 7 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1907: Turkey is going to
take spain, since Zvi is controlling Italy's armies, or so it seems,
there's not much I can do to stop him while pretending not to be
hostile.

Since I'm planning to move my fleets out of scandanavia, I am planning
to move 1 (and only 1) army. As a show of faith, next turn I'll move
that army into sweden so it's not a direct threat to any of your
centers. But, I think you'll agree that a little bit of insurance for
myself wouldn't be threatening
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: This should probably
go without saying, but if you convoy an army into Scandinavia, I will
take that as a sign of hostility. We need armies on the mainland
badly. In a pinch against Turkey, my armies which invade France can
head south, but it would be much better for you to have forces down
there.
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: We need to discuss
long-term plans as well. I think we should split France down the
middle, after whatever gains Turkey makes in the south. In terms of
consolidating our gains, I think the best stalemate line for us is to
have me occupy Scandinavia, and I'll give you my French territories.
We could probably keep a border mostly DMZ, perhaps one army each in
the mainland (Hol-Kie?), and no fleets in Norwegian/North. That way
your units can battle Turkey in Iberia and the Med, mine can go
overland into the Balkans.

It is imperative Turkey does not move too quickly. Our little scuffle
here will delay him at least one turn, which is helpful while we set
up to take down France. Hopefully I will be able to induce a strategic
error somewhere along the way as well, if he counts on my support at
any point. If he gets into Iberia before you do, we are going to be in
trouble. He is already at 11 centers plus Italy, so we are getting
dangerously close. You have to take Iberia before he does, or the game
is over. Best of luck.
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: Hang on, I didn't
realize Baltic Sea could move to Kiel. This map is really goddamn
unclear to me. I don't need to move into Denmark at all, so no worries
there. This turn I am just positioning my units around France's
armies, since he claims he will demilitarize our border. Next turn we
can take at least one center, possibly multiple ones!
Thu 6 Jan (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1907: I agree that brest is
the better target. I'll take Portugal and you can have spain.
Thu 6 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1907: but where after
denmark? I still have my fleet in the north sea that I can't move.
Thu 6 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: Turkey is willing to
work with me. We chatted for a while at the meetup, we basically both
agreed that this move looks really bad but in practice does just about
nothing to affect our plans. I am still going to move on France, so we
should start coordinating. My plan is to move into both Bur and Ruhr,
assuming he believes I am actually at war with Turkey. Meanwhile, I
need to get my two fleets into play, which at this point would entail
moving through Denmark. You can have it back later of course, but I
simply can't have two useless units sitting around at this point in
the game. You can move Den-Hel, and then the fleet can be used to take
Holland next turn. What do you think?
Thu 6 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1907: Getting the army into
Iberia doesn't matter; what matters is getting them out of England.
One should definitely go to Norway because you need to not have that
hanging over your head. The other should try to get into French
territory, but I wouldn't bother getting it that far south. Brest is
potentially a great target if you're supported, as is Picardy. If you
agree that I get Spain, you can have Portugal.
Wed 5 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1907: I plan to take Spain
in the fall if it's vulnerable, definitely, but I plan to do it with
my own fleet; Italy will support. No idea if he plans to cover
Portugal. Reason I ask is because if you're trying for Portugal no
point in Italy trying to sneak into Spain so he can cut a random
support instead in case I get attacked, or support me into Western
Med.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1907: are you planning to
take spain w/Italian fleet if I take portugal? I was thinking also
about retaking the channel and convoy an army into iberia, though I
have to think if armies would be wasted over there.
Wed 5 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1907: Let me know if you're
planning to move to Spain or Portugal, so I can direct Italy's fleet.
Wed 5 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1907: Let me know if you're
planning to move to Spain or Portugal, so I can direct Italy's fleet.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: Yes, but I have
the army/fleet choice so making sure everyone knows.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1906: aren't those the only
places you CAN build?
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: In order to aid in
negotiations not being held up: Turkey is building F Smy, A Ank, A
Con.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: In order to aid in
negotiations not being held up: Turkey is building F Smy, A Ank, A
Con.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: I agree that an overt
move on him right away is a mistake, because it's impossible; your
goal should be to keep the formal peace long enough to convoy an army
in for protection first and see how open Russia wants to be.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1906: Well that sucks for
me! I am going to see what I can do diplomatically with him to repair
things, but I am not holding out much hope... My best bet is to ally
with France in the south, work with him to take centers in Italy, and
then stab him with you to get builds. Note that Turkey can't possibly
take Warsaw or Moscow by next build, so if I get enough extra centers
this build I can still create a bunch of armies at home and stop his
advance.
Tue 4 Jan (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1906: Turkey has declared
war on russia. are you going to side with turkey or russia? you have
territory to gain on either potential front and Zvi is probably the
more dangerous player.
Tue 4 Jan (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1906: france could possibly
buy my loyalty by trading Port and/or spain
Tue 4 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1906: i think its safe to
say this is long term aggressive zvi.
Tue 4 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1906: sent by turkey: "I
don't know if France intends to join Russia or not, but either way I'm
at war..."
Tue 4 Jan (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1906: i'm certainly not
against you. my plan (which should seem obvious given my position) was
to grab a piece of france. Now that germany is gone, i have no real
love for russia, but my scandanavian position is fairly weak right now
so its still useful for me to be at peace with russia.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1906: Posted here for
records:

4:49 PM me: Hey.
4:50 PM Zvi seems to think France will secure MAO, from the summary he
posted. Maybe France isn't that smart though...
rkurtz57: he cant
me: Anyway, you could try to convoy into Brest, if you think he moves
MAO. Or, regardless, convoy into Picardy.
4:51 PM Are you going to bounce him?
rkurtz57: well h/o
let me check the map
is west med-> MAO passable?
4:52 PM me: If you convoy into Pic, then you can try to slip into
Brest or Paris, tie up his units, while I press from the east.
I dunno...
But he needs fleets in the south.
rkurtz57: i didn't think it was, but maybe it is actually
me: Hmmm, crap, wish I knew the rules better.
rkurtz57: yeah
that's screwed me twice so far this game
4:53 PM anyway yeah my plan was to cut a movement from Brest - MAO
me: Aren't you concerned about getting armies onto the mainland
eventually?
rkurtz57: yes
big concern
haha
4:54 PM the other idea was to move channel to MAO, north sea ->
channel and another fleet to north sea
and have a three linked convoy going
to flank france on both sides
me: Yeah, not bad.
Assuming you get MAO.
rkurtz57: but unfortunately, can't do that this turn b/c of germaany
4:55 PM yeah
me: Exactly.
At least Germany is dead this turn, unless he stabs France and France
is an idiot.
rkurtz57: i wish i had a better idea of what france's plan is
4:56 PM me: Yeah, me too.
This is what he sent me: "I fear I'm going to have to leave a lot of
my units in the North, until England stops trying to attack me.
Disadvantage of having a long coastline with few fleets, I suppose. In
the interim, I'm trying to support Italy."
rkurtz57: he sent me a message tring to get me to stab you
me: Haha, of course.
4:57 PM rkurtz57: its tempting to try to get into north cost of france
i think better strategy would be to take spain and portugal first
though
4:58 PM less well defending
and it'll keep theem out of turkeys hands
possibly
also give you more room to expand
4:59 PM me: Yeah, if you get into Iberia, that puts you in a better
position later to confront Turkey in the endgame.
rkurtz57: yes
me: He is pissing me off by parking that fleet in the Black Sea. I'm
going to try to negotiate with him to move it, we'll see how that
works.
5:00 PM The advantage of you convoying armies into France proper is
that our forces can work together up north.
Although if you just support with fleets, that should be enough.
If you build a fleet in Lvp, then you can get MAO by next build, and
still have one fleet to help support my armies.
Basically, the ground battle is a stalemate.
5:01 PM rkurtz57: as long as i can keep france out of MAO
i think i may try to bounce MAO directly then
with the fleet in Eng channel
me: Yeah, that seems like the way to go at this point.
5:02 PM You can also move Lon safely, to build there instead of Lvp
potentially.
rkurtz57: even if my army gets into brest, it won't be well supported
me: Well, if he moves MAO, and you take Brest, you get a bunch of
builds, and Eng Channel can support hold.
5:03 PM rkurtz57: that's not gonna happen this turn
the most i could do is cut a move to MAO
5:04 PM unless i convoy to pic
but then i lose MAO
i think that's a bigger loss
since PIc is not a center
spain + portugal seems more valuable than maybe brest
5:05 PM are builds next turn?
8 minutes
5:13 PM me: Back, I was calling Andrew to see what his plans were.
I guess bounce MAO then, and try your convoy strat, using your fleets
to support my ground attacks.
5:14 PM rkurtz57: sounds good
and i think its possible to convoy other country's armies
so something to keep in mind
5:16 PM me: Yes, that is definitely true.
rkurtz57: ok
5:17 PM me: So far as I understand anyway... Christ, what a mess.
rkurtz57: haha
fun game but tough
i like it way better than risk or axis and allies at least
but i had no idea it was gonna last this long
me: Oh yes, much better.
It has been eating my life sometimes. :-P
5:18 PM It is either eating my life, or my life is so busy I almost
miss the turn.
Andrew proposed week-long turns to me.
rkurtz57: i wouldn't do it
too long
5:20 PM me: That length is nice though, because we can forget about
it.
Two days keeps the face furious.
pace*
5:21 PM rkurtz57: except i probably would forget
or maybe forget my tactics
5:22 PM plus games would last forever
and not much incentive to keep playing after its obvious you won't win
even though the fighting for your life dynamics does have interesting
effects
look at italy and germany, for example
5:23 PM me: Yeah, people giving up is annoying.
Playing in person could alleviate some of these effects.
rkurtz57: though harder to coordinate secretely
5:24 PM me: That's why you take people into other rooms to chat with
them.
I would study a LOT more before the next game, that's for damn sure.
rkurtz57: yeah
each country has specific, particulaly, opening tactics
5:25 PM me: nods
My earliest turns were largely ad hoc diplomacy./
I didn't have much thought in terms of grand strategy.
Now it's a lot more obvious.
5:26 PM rkurtz57: in a way, i'm lucky that england is so waterlock,
that early mistakes didn't cost me the game outright
5:27 PM me: Well, true, but this was still fairly crippling.
If I had been trying to contain you instead of deliberately get you
more builds, you'd still be in a world of hurt.
rkurtz57: yeah haha
thanks for that, btw
i think it'll pay off for you in the end to have me around
5:28 PM me: You're welcome. I sure hope so. :P
I think the best-case scenario is a three-way tie, with us and Turkey.
If Turkey gets to Iberia before we do, it's over.
rkurtz57: yeah
i agree
i still think we have a shot at pressing turkey from two northern
front
s
me: My one concern about attacking France so hard is that he will take
pressure off Turkey.
5:29 PM I'm trying to get France/Italy to slow Italy's collapse, but
they don't seem able to work together.
And Turkey is moving in now...
5:30 PM rkurtz57: yeah the longer turkey italy and france are tied up,
the better
another reason not to go into brest right away
me: That's why I was trying to call Andrew just now, but it seems like
way too much of a shitshow for me to actually know what to do.
rkurtz57: hopefull the army win burgandy will try to protect marseille
and not paris
5:31 PM *in not win
me: Yeah...
5:32 PM Depends on whether he sees us or Turkey as a bigger threat.
I see your point about not being too aggressive in the north.
5:33 PM This turn I am going to move in a bit on Turkey, to pressure
him on the North Sea. We're bouncing in Nor/Swe. The rest of my units
are holding.
rkurtz57: you mean black sea?
me: Maybe France will think I am holding off up north, move his units
along the coast, and concentrate down south.
Yes, sorry.
5:34 PM rkurtz57: you could tell him as much
idk if that would help him trust you
also the turn is over
haha
or near enough
5:35 PM me: 10 minutes!
rkurtz57: anotherproblem with going after turkey is that your borders
are pretty exposed
me: Yes, for now.
rkurtz57: it'll be obvious whatt going on if you draw back
or start building armies at home
5:37 PM me: I am just moving some units around down south, to change
my bargaining position going into the build.
5:38 PM It will obviously look aggressive, but I may or may not turn
that into an actual offensive.
rkurtz57: just enough to broker a draw
me: My biggest concern is that Turkey gets two builds this turn.
5:39 PM rkurtz57: unless he stabs ital
y
me: Yeah, if nothing else it ties up some of his units, slows down his
advance into Italy until we make an agreement.
rkurtz57: though he might
me: Oh, I think Italy is getting stabbed.
I mean, he took Venice...
rkurtz57: i just hoped it wouldnt happen yet
5:40 PM but whynot, i guess
me: Well, Turkey could have moved more quickly with Italy on his side.
At least in theory.
5 mins to go!
rkurtz57: only by moving against you, i thin
5:41 PM how else could he get around italy
?
me: Convoy around, go overland.
Make Italy a vassal.
5:42 PM rkurtz57: i hope italy/france came up with something to push
turkey back
me: Andrew tells me he simply can't work with France.
I think they're totally fucked.
5:43 PM I'd use my unit in Tyrolia to help if I had ANY idea what
would work.
rkurtz57: weird
too late for that
me: Zvi asked me to support hold Venice, I told him no, so who knows
how he changed his plans in response?
At least that is one less unit being mobilized.
5:44 PM rkurtz57: it'll be interesting how it shakes out
either way i think i'm gonna find a book on military tactics
me: 30 seconds!
This is hardly realistic...
5:45 PM Ah!
I was afraid he'd move into Sev.
Clever bastard.
5:46 PM rkurtz57: it was a matter of time
5:47 PM increased the amount of yellow on the board by like 50%
i feel like zvi is finally trying
me: I think when I told him I wanted him out of Black Sea, he decided
to move into Sev.
Nah, he always has been.
He knew I needed to build there.
5:48 PM rkurtz57: france didn't try for MAO at all
me: I was even thinking that I would have moved into Sev myself, I
probably should have listened to myself. :-P
rkurtz57: i'm surprised
but moved out of west med
that's weird
me: Now Turkey gets three builds...
Yeah, France is not an excellent player.
I get no builds, so no reinforcements down south...
5:49 PM Oh well, I live and I learn.
Motherfucker.
rkurtz57: yeah
turkey thats toug
5:50 PM me: Hmmm, what to do from here...
At least I don't need to build this turn, so I don't have to worry
about it.
5:51 PM rkurtz57: the other option is to try to take france quickly
enough that you can regain centers as quickly as turkey can take them
just throwwing out ideas
me: Yeah, but I need to be able to build.
Right.
I'm still thinking about that.
Ideally I'd like to work with France in the south, but war with him in
the north...
rkurtz57: that's gonna be tricky to broker
me: If Turkey decides to press the attack, I will need to bring units
down from up north anyway.
5:52 PM rkurtz57: you could do that
me: I suspect Zvi will just offer to maintain the alliance, and that
was just protection.
rkurtz57: and just pretend he's only fighting me in the north
me: Exactly.
The stab would need to go just right...
rkurtz57: well now that germany is gone, you could tell france there's
no reason for our alliance to continue
5:53 PM i hope that isnt true
me: Holy crap. From Turkey: "Serves you freaking right. Good luck."
rkurtz57: :-P
ouch
dick
5:54 PM me: LOL
5:55 PM I think it's hilarious.
Anyway, if he is committed to destroying me, I basically have no
choice but to DMZ with France.
5:56 PM rkurtz57: fine
me: I am not sure if he is or not yet, we'll see.
rkurtz57: we'll see if he's hungrier for france or you
me: He probably sees easier progress in Russia, especially given his
three brand new builds...
rkurtz57: if it's france, then france is about to get crowded
5:57 PM yeah
though if F tunis -> west med
he's got a nice convoy lineup to spain
me: You have enough to fuck France up yourself, I think, despite a
potential DMZ on my end.
I wonder if Turkey will try to cease fire with France now?
Ah well.
5:58 PM rkurtz57: that could work out for me if it leaves me with more
territory to grab
though worse since france will have more resources for defense
5:59 PM me: He will still need to keep at least some units around.
To defend his border with me.
I wouldn't completely DMZ.
6:02 PM Anyway, now that that is over, I need to get going to change
and stuff before the meetup.
Catch you later.
rkurtz57: byee
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: I don't know if
France intends to join Russia or not, but either way I'm at war. Are
you with me?
Mon 3 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: On being ready:
Remember that the game only proceeds if *everyone* clicks ready, and
you can always take it back later. Thus, if you're ready to proceed in
the situation where everyone else thinks they too are ready, you can
safely click ready. I might well change my orders, but if everyone
else doesn't think I need to, then I won't, so I'm ready.
Sun 2 Jan (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1906: Do you really want to
attack me? I've got my entire northern border guarded, plus a fleet in
the Western Mediterranean, so it'll be slow going- and you're leaving
all of Scandinavia completely open to an attack from Russia's 3-unit
northern navy. In my situation, I'm hardly going to backstab you in
revenge, either.
Sat 1 Jan (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1906: If you want to try
for holland, I can cut support from belgium.
Sat 1 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: Reminder to all:
You need to order both the army to move via convoy AND the fleet to
convoy the army to its destination for the order to be valid. Either
order by itself does nothing.
Sat 1 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: I will explain the
convoy rules in my Spring update. Damn.
Fri 31 Dec (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1906: Sounds good to me,
though you're gonna be competing with france for kiel
Fri 31 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1906: From Turkey:

Lon is on him since it's a guessing game. Norway-North Sea, Sweden-
Denmark, Baltic S Sweden-Denmark, StP H, Mun-Kie, Ber S Mun-Kie, Tyr-
Mun, Boh S Tyr-Mun, Vie-Tyr, Sev-Bla. Pru H. That knocks out Denmark,
prevents retreat to North Sea.
Thu 30 Dec (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1906: probably into brest
Thu 30 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: If you decide to try
a convoy, I think Brest is your best percentage play because he has
the option to intentionally clash in Belgium using Picardy to deny you
the other two, although I make it only about 50/50 to work. Also, I'd
make sure to leave the question of a garrison in Norway at least
ambiguous; Russia shouldn't know that it is open even if it is (and
leaving it open sets up a convoy and/or supported attack, so it has
big upside)
Wed 29 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1905: Yeah, no problem, I
am not looking to screw you over here.

Once we see Germany's disband, we'll have our strategy for the turn. I
think Germany will die this year, unless something crazy happens, like
Germany still agreeing to work with France successfully. Are you going
to convoy into France next turn?
Tue 28 Dec (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1905: thanks for the
forewarning
Tue 28 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1905: Time for builds.
This is my opportunity to secure StP, and I am going to build a fleet
on north coast StP this turn, because I already have enough useful
fleets in the south. The fleet is just going to hold, but it will send
a possibly useful signal to others that our alliance is shaky. This
also allows us to do an easy supply center switch in the future, if
you don't capture more and want to disband one of those armies on the
mainland.
Tue 28 Dec (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1905: You not attacking me
would be nice...
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1905: If you are still
going after France, I like Zvi's idea of disbanding instead of
retreating and rebuilding in Liverpool. The risk is of course my
fleets around Scandinavia, but we need to get units mobilized. If you
are unable to convoy successfully after next turn, then it might be
worth me capturing one supply center for a build, you disbanding an
army, and then building another fleet.

I think it would be worthwhile for us to redistribute supply centers
after this is all said and done, I think it makes more tactical sense
for me to have Scandinavia and you to have a bigger piece of France/
Germany.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1905: For archive
purposes, this was your e-mail response to me:

These are fine for now, though where's support from Den-> kie going to
come from? As Zvi said, I need to capture another center for this
turn, but without support Berlin, that's not going to happen this
turn.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: The disband is an
option, and it's worth taking time to think about but I think you need
to keep the fleet in Sweden.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Sorry about the
build, I guessed wrong, but I actually think this is better.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Well, the man says a
lot of things. I wouldn't be totally shocked by a move to Mid-
Atlantic, but if he does so much the better. He'd be doing it to try
and build a fleet probably. And the supports might well be fake.
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: Got work from
France. He claims he's supporting German troops temporarily to slow
russian expansion, but has no hostile designs on myself. We'll see
about that, I guess. He says he's not going to move into the channel,
as well.
Sun 26 Dec (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1905: anything you want in
return?
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1905: Italy (and possibly
Germany). The only reason I was supporting German troops was that I
wanted to delay Russian expansion- I'm not opposing you or anything.

Also, since you obviously don't want me to, I won't move to the
English Channel.
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: ok, that makes sense
to me now.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Also, in terms of
the division of Germany, he's supported you into Sweden and Denmark,
so while it would be great if he gave you Kiel long term he might not
go for that. I'm not getting in the middle of that negotiation, cause
it's between you two; we can talk about Spain and Portugal when the
time comes.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: The concept is not
to take Kiel but to cut any support Kiel is offering for an attack on
Berlin or a hold of Munich. However, Berlin supporting it is a free
action (in the sense that I expect anything Berlin does to be cut) so
I think it's fine for him to do that.
Sun 26 Dec (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1905: How about now? You
said you were going to take holland, but are now supporting German
troops! Where are you planning on expanding to?
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: If russia agrees to
support with Berlin, I could do it, but he has little incentive plus
he'll likely use that Army to take munich (or to take Kiel himself).
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: I might try that
move (F Lon -> Channel) again. Russia shared the moves you thought up.
Good, except F Den-> Kiel seems a bit pointless to me, without support
I'd be lucky to take it (G fleets in North sea and baltic could retake
denmark, Norway or sweden or support kiel) plus i'd be stretching
myself. No obvious solution to get to 7 centers this turn come to
mind.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Not sure what you
should cover in the north; I think going to Norway is reasonable and
so is not going there. Mixed strategy probably right in long run.
Definitely good you bounced the channel.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Hasn't responded to
me either. Hard to set up a guy who won't talk.
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: I agree its odd.
Considering he told me last turn that he was going for holland. He
hasn't responded to my communication since last turn. I'm glad I
bounced the channel. Lets see if he responds this turn
Sun 26 Dec (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Spring 1905
summary up on mailing list; I sent emails upon my return last night.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1905: From Turkey:

Lot of options out there, I'll sleep on it; let me know when your
check-ins will be if you're worried.

Gut reaction: Den-Kie, GoB-Bal, Liv-Pru, Swe-Nwy, Ber S Sil-Mun, Sil-
Mun, Boh S Vie-Tyr, Vie-Tyr, Gal-Vie, Lon-Eng, Wal-Lon, Edi H.
Sat 25 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: OK, France staying
in Belgium is odd, since I'd think it was Ruhr for F/G and Holland for
the stab. Talking to Russia about the tactics of the situation, but
it's basically a big guessing game. Your thoughts?
Fri 24 Dec (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1905: Really, you can
trust me completely. I'm way too tied up in the South to think of
betraying you.
Fri 24 Dec (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1905: If you didn't want
me to move to the Channel, you could've just asked me, and I would've
moved to Mao or Picardy instead...

Anyways, I still oppose Germany, I just didn't want Russia to get too
much of the corpse. This way, you've got a shot at Kiel, and I've got
a chance at taking Munich.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: I will be away
on Christmas Eve and much of Christmas Day, so I plan not to check in
during that period. I should be back on the night of the 25th, but
don't read anything into it if I don't reply until the 26th. I will
assume that many of you have similar tasks to attend to, and as Tom
Leher says: On Christmas Day you can't get sore. Your fellow man you
must adore. There's time to rob him all the more the other three
hundred and six-a-ty a-four... Merry Christmas, everybody!
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: Bouncing in the
channel seems like a good idea to me, which allows your fleets to
protect Scandinavia, but that's your call. If you get a fleet into the
North Sea, then London + North Sea can push France out of the channel
the next turn. Are you at all concerned about losing Norway or Sweden?
My fleets will be able to support soon, and I can always temporarily
move into Sweden and give it back to you the following turn, if that
gives us better strategic positioning. Ultimately that is your call.

If Germany has a deal with France, it seems to me France is just using
him as a puppet to stall us before he eats the guy himself... we'll
see.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: You can't usefully
support yourself into North Sea, so moving there works only if either
he moves out or he supports Denmark. I think he might go to Norway, he
might go to Holland, he might support. The channel bounce works but we
don't know if France is planning on becoming hostile or whether the
miscommunication excuse would fly. I also don't think that while it's
not friendly by any means it's especially aggressive to deny him the
Channel; what is aggressive would be taking it yourself. Telling him
you're doing so would be one way to make it non-aggressive and not all
that hostile, since it will bounce and you know it, but risks his
reaction. Also, you have to judge whether Germany will try to hold
anything in the north at all. Tough call.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1905: Hi Germany! Just
so you know, France told me that he's planning on moving into Holland,
though I heard through Turkey that you think there's a G/F alliance.

I think our interests are aligned now as both of us could get
swallowed by Russia or France. France has admitted his plans to move
into the channel, so I'm not trusting that relationship very far.

Do you think we can work something out?
23 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1905: In my case, would
you use the fleet in london to bounce France out of the channel (which
could signal aggression since he told me his plan I can use the
miscommunication excuse) or use it to try and retake the North sea?
23 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1905: France says he's
taking the channel and going for Holland, but Turkey says that Germany
thinks he and france have a deal going. Unless part of the deal is to
give up holland (which is hard to imagine) this next move should
reveal all. Now I need to decide whether I should bounce the france
out of the channel or try for North sea.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1905: France just told me
that he's planning to take the channel and move A Bel -> Holland. This
suggests no deal. His next move should be telling, in that case
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: If I was France and
made a deal with Germany I would ask for North Sea supports Brest to
English Channel, on the theory that if you go to North Sea anything he
does is cut anyway.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: Germany *thinks*
there's a deal. The question is, does France think this too?
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: Agreed, I've heard
nothing from France yet. We'll see how this all plays out. I'll let
you know as my situation updates, but those fleet moves will largely
stay in place.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Spring, 1905: Yep, I'm going to
move to the Channel.

I'll probably go for Holland from Belgium, and move Bur -> Bel, and
Par -> Bur.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1905: It depends on
communications with France. Will thinks Fr-G may have struck a deal
because of the decision to disband the fleet at Holland. That would
make securing the channel important (as important as retaking the
north sea?).

Either way, I think I'll go for Denmark.
22 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Spring, 1905: Hey France, I see
you've got a new fleet in Brest. I assume that going towards the
channel and not MAO? I'm trying to decide whether to secure the
channel or retake the North sea. I'm curious what your plans are with
Holland, since its recently unoccupied.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1905: My gut is to go
into Denmark if the channel is safe and try to retake the north sea. A
lot depends on communication with France.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: I would bounce
London against Brest, so the channel stays neutral. Germany's disbands
suggest a France-German alliance, but I have no communication with
either yet. My moves are Fin-GoB, Stp-Liv, I can do little but
position at this point. You going to cover Nor, or try to force into
Den? If he dares leave Kie undefended I am tempted to sneak in with
Ber.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: Assuming you don't
feel you can/must dispute the channel, this turn the plan is clearly
to use Sweden as support and hit Denmark from Ska and move London to
North Sea, which cuts the only possible support, then try to get an
army convoy over to Norway from Edi to break the lock for good.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: The opening
Russia played on my suggestion is a double-edged sword; it's obviously
superficially aimed at Austria but can be a setup of Turkey. I
certainly don't think it offers anything that dooms the two to a war,
but it's the most powerful thing R/T can do against Austria quickly.
The Bulgarian Gambit I've never seen pulled off successfully, but it's
obviously beautiful if you do.

I've offered my own strategic commentary, but I think that your
comments are mostly on point. There are certainly a lot of ways things
can go down.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: ---------------
The has worked out well for Russia because of England initial mistakes
and disinterest on placing pressure on Russia's north. Germany's
current collapse puts Russia in a very strong position.
---------------
In addition because I feel like it my 2 cents. Interested in feed back
from Zvi on flaws in my view.
---------------
England has recovered a bit and looks to be working with Russia. Will
they try a backstab and go for ST.Petersburg? How are they going to
handle the German fleet in the North Sea? What do they expect to get
long term from an alliance with Russia?
--------------
Germany, can they make peace with France and hold off collapse? Doing
so would probably not gain them a win but would prevent destruction.
They still could be a king maker. How does Germany feel toward France
vs Russia? Who do they want to win?
-----------------------
France, if they can make peace with Germany and convince England to
attack Russia the game would find balance. They could push though
Italy or perhaps better give Italy back rome hold Tunis and work with
Italy and place pressure on the Russian/Turkey alliance. If Turkey can
not move forward they are forced to stab Russia.
----------
Russia, keep the status quo, keep the alliance with England, Crush
Germany, Stab Turkey before they stab you, Win.
--------
Turkey, you need to grow quicker. Can you use diplomacy to slow Russia
down while keeping him your friend? Can diplomacy get you into Italy
and the centers you need to keep pace with the northern bear?
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I did not study
that much book but I found this to be of use.

http://www.diplom.org/Online/Openings/interactive.html?

I don't know if Russia meant it but this is the description of his
opening:

UKRAINE SYSTEM, AUSTRIAN ATTACK VARIANT
Russia's second most popular opening, this generally means that Russia
is confident he has a Turkish ally against Austria. A drawback is that
the fleet in Rumania is poorly placed.
Russia must usually choose between a northern or southern strategy.
This means putting her eggs in the appropriate basket. Here she is
allied with Turkey against Austria. If there is a stand-off in Galicia
or Rumania, there will be support for the same order in the Fall.

[BULGARIAN GAMBIT]
This Austro-Russian combination requires a careful diplomatic setup of
Turkey, but guarantees to keep the Turk at three SC's by the end of
1901. Austria opens with Tri-Alb and Bud-Ser, while Russia sends the
Sevastopol fleet to Rumania. In the Fall, Turkey is convinced by one
or both of Austria and Russia to attempt a move out of Bulgaria, and A/
R combine to dislodge the unsupportable Bulgaria. Doug Beyerlein wrote
an article on the Bulgarian Gambit.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1904: To be fair, as
Italy or Austria I'm going to want to kill any Turkey that takes the
Black Sea Spring '01. Either Turkey has Russia completely flummoxed or
has an alliance. Either way Turkey has a safe North border so either
he'll rape Russia or move west. I was going after Turkey regardless of
the player.
21 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1904: He asked me himself
too. Just covering all his bases I guess?

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet. Meta-gaming, I'd put Turkey's
chances higher, though he can't do it in a vacuum, which makes our
cooperation valuable (to either T or R).

Cooperation makes sense until Germany's out of the picture. Until then
it should be interesting to see what shakes out.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1904: Turkey asked me to
ask you to ally with them...I'm not really sure why he didn't just ask
you himself.

I think that they, and Russia, are going to get into a war fairly
soon.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Agreed. Keep my
posted. I'm not all that comfortable with fr fleets in the channel
(I'll try to negotiate something) especially if I wind up allying with
R and stabbing F.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: Also note that
while E/T right now only has 13 units, if Italy is in we have 15,
Germany would likely be neutral or better and potentially a well-timed
backstab could put us over the top. I'm going to keep an eye out for
it. Certainly E/F/T or E/R/T are each strong triples that easily beat
the rest of the map.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: There is a bug
in the game that prevents disbands from being locked in. We're simply
going to wait until the time runs out; not Germany's fault.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: Right now we're in
a weird limbo because Germany and Italy are designated victims and
theoretically the four of us can get along for a while because of
that, but that won't last. I have two basic plans. I can divide Italy
with France and play everyone (potentially including Germany but not
Italy) against Russia, or I can keep my deal with Russia and play
everyone (and potentially including Italy and/or Germany) against
France.

France wants to build fleets and he wants the English Channel. That's
interesting. Are you comfortable with that? I've confirmed the
negotiations between Russia and France. If they get together, they're
going to be very hard to stop. My top priority is breaking them up.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1904: At the moment. He's
planning on some fleet builds and to take over the channel so we'll
see how that goes.

I also know that Russia and France have been talking and have a
temporary truce. Both have been "courting" me to go after the other
and (after that) you.

Of course, they're probably planning with each other to go after me.
21 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Russia supported my
move to Sweden, so we have [at least a temporary] alliance. Of course,
that move was more to keep Germany out of St.P than to through me any
bones. Once Germany is "put down" I'm not counting on an alliance to
last long.

I haven't spoken much to Turkey, since we're still not close enough to
interact meaningfully.

Right now, my sights will be set on Denmark, though I definitely want
to think of creative solutions for expansion.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: Are you allied with
France at the moment?
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1904: Agreed.

I'm not sure if you've spoken with Russia yet, but they suggested that
they'd take Kiel, I'd take Holland, and you'd take Denmark- is that
acceptable?

I'm indeed going to move a fleet to the English Channel, unless the
German armies collapse much faster than I expected. FWIW, I'll promise
not to attack you- I mean, it wouldn't make any sense to pick fights
with my allies, when Russia's just made a land grab for Munich and
Turkey's publicly announced that they want Italy.

Incidentally, are you allied with Turkey or Russia yet?
20 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Hey France, great
turn reducing Ger to 4 centers. If I'm guessing right, we're both
interested in building fleets. I also want to convoy to the main land
to carve a piece out of Germany.

I'm curious what your tactics are so we can come to come mutually
agreeable arrangements. My original idea was to convoy into Belgium,
but this took to long and I lost the north sea, so via Denmark is
still possible.

Where do you want to position your fleets? Obviously it will be easy
for you to secure the Channel, if you wish. If that's the case, I'd
appreciate a signal of your good intentions towards my homeland.

After Germany is taken down, we will have to look to the east. Russia
and Turkey are stable and growing, so that diplomatic ties will have
to reorient after Germany is taken care of.

What do you think?
20 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1904: yeah the power
dynamic really shifted in just one turn. I'll see what I can negotiate
with France as to not lose my influence over the sea
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: France just
informed me that we can only build new units in our home country,
which sucks. That makes it obvious he should build a fleet in Mar and
Bre each, which will make the invasion of France harder - I was hoping
he could build in Tunis. You and Germany still have enough combined
strength to take down France, especially when he is tied up down
south, but that fleet will make it slower going.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: That went well! Now
you get a fleet build in London, yay!

The question is what Germany decides to disband. His army will retreat
to Ruhr, I think he should disband North Sea and Hal fleets and will
tell him such.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: One more piece to
consider: where you build. Edi will be covered and thus unavailable,
Norway would be a possibility but the fleet is less useful up there.
If you're willing to risk Lon, you can move Lon-Wal, build a fleet in
Lon, and then move it to the channel and convoy into France next turn.
Those armies have to get to the mainland eventually. Plus a fleet in
Lon at least gives you option value on hitting Germany anyway after he
disbands his fleets.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: From Gchat, posted
here for record purposes:

me: Hey England.
rkurtz57: hi!
Russia, right?
me: I moved my fleet up for that very purpose. :) Let's talk strategy.
Yes.
rkurtz57: yes
me: I think making sure you don't get dislodged from Norway is
priority number one.
rkurtz57: yeah
you must be nervous about St P right about now
me: There is that as well, potentially.
Of course, if you lose Norway to get StP, that is not helping your
cause any.
You NEED another fleet, that means being +1 supply center at the end
of the turn.
I'm thinking I can support your move from Norway to Sweden, your other
fleet moves to Norway to bounce the potential North Sea attack.
Then you can build in Norway or Edinburgh.
(If you don't move your army to cover.)
Sent at 4:32 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: do you think there's a difference between moving F Nor-> Swe
or F Ska ->Swe?
me: If he moves Swe-Nor supported by Black Sea, Norway gets bounced
unless you are moving from Norway.
rkurtz57: ah ok
me: Do you have any sense of what Germany is going to do?
We can guarantee you get Sweden no matter what Germany does, AFAICT,
but I also don't want him to do substantial damage to you elsewhere.
rkurtz57: I'm gonna move to cover Edi
other than that there's not much I can do at home
me: Obviously once I take at least Berlin he is going to have to bring
units home and disband something, so the pressure is off.
Right.
rkurtz57: yeah
then we have a few options
either convoy into belgium and get support from france
or through denmark,
either way, we're making him fight at 3 fronts
me: Oh, armies on the mainland would be very helpful.
I assumed that was an all but lost cause at this point. :P Until you
build another fleet anyway.
rkurtz57: yeah
i need another fleet and retake the north sea
and/or the channel
Sent at 4:38 PM on Sunday
me: Germany might disband a fleet too, to concentrate on me and
France.
Sent at 4:39 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: have you been talking to italy at all?
me: Not much. At this point Andrew is ready to give up.
rkurtz57: ok
its a weird situation diplomatically
me: Scott's army disband was basically conceding that he is giving up
Austria.
rkurtz57: but i guess if italy is giving up then it might not matter
me: The south is entirely fucked, I expect Turkey to roll over them.
rkurtz57: yeah
that seems inevitable
depending on how much territory you can grab first
me: Right, ultimately it will be up to me (and France to some degree)
to face Turkey eventually.
I need to grow more quickly than he does though...
Sent at 4:43 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: you're in a better position to take german centers
though that will be more challenging that sweeping up italy
me: This is true. But what is the next step after Germany collapses?
Exactly, Germany still has a solid base.
Sent at 4:46 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: thinking long term, France
he's pretty extended and he's essentially left the iberian penn. open
me: If you could conquer France, maybe you could have the strength to
face Turkey with me.
You swallow France, I swallow Germany.
rkurtz57: that makes a lot of sense
and, since i'll be focusing on fleets
you know our goals are compatible
me: That is true, although it will be easy enough to convert over, and
fleets would still be able to do significant damage to me up north if
I took Germany.
Hmmm... I was wondering about you and Germany allying against France.
The problem is that you two both have a bunch of fleets.
Lots of wasted units there.
rkurtz57: that was the original plan
and it failed
germany was stabbing me from the beginning
me: Though if you get Germany to disband some fleets, trust you, and
focus on me and France in a ground battle...
rkurtz57: the original plan was anti-france with ger supporting
me: Your fleets get freed up to mobilize against France, you make some
rapid gains.
Right.
Then you and Germany went at each other. Oops.
rkurtz57: the thing is that we agreed to split the neutrils
but he took belgium
me: When your convoy failed, I think he switched alliances.
rkurtz57: yeah
early, stupid mistake
me: I know, so much path dependence.
rkurtz57: in any case an alliance with you is better than with Germany
at this point
me: Yes, obviously.
rkurtz57: first of all, he's not going to trust me now
against France
even if we carve up france
he's too close to home
then he gains centers
and comes after me
me: Remember he'll be tied up with me as well.
I have to attack either Turkey or Germany, and I don't have the units
in place to fight Turkey.
I think he'd be willing to put enmity aside for the time being.
rkurtz57: germany you mean?
me: Yes.
rkurtz57: he hasn't signaled that to me
me: As Zvi said, tactical success leads to diplomatic success.
If you take Sweden, I take Berlin, you convince him to disband two
fleets and you guys face me and France.
Sent at 4:54 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: h/o i'm thinking
me: No problem, take your time. I've been doing a lot of crunching
lately. :P
Sent at 4:56 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: tactically speaking, I guess you're right
but it seems to me that, at least now, western france would be an easy
target
Sent at 4:58 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: plus as another signal of my trust, I'lve left St.P alone
even though germany would have supported that move
me: Indeed, you could have screwed with StP this entire time.
Sent at 5:00 PM on Sunday
rkurtz57: ok I have to go
but i've set up for Norway-> Swe and Ska->Nor
me: Okay, sounds good, I am assisting.
rkurtz57: great
me: We'll talk later.
rkurtz57: yep
bye
me: Peace.
19 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Hi Russia, what do
you think about supporting my move from SKa to Sweden?
18 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1904: I am waiting on
confirmation with Russia then will lock in.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: France, soon as
you're ready we can proceed to Spring 1904.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I take a nap and
general chat explodes
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I'd also note
that it sounds like next time I should probably be Gamemaster rather
than participate, since there are going to be multiple players who are
going to want me dead from the start! That turns it into a very
different game.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I understand why
you view Tuesday night the way you did, but believe me when I say I
wasn't meta gaming and I don't think anyone else was, either; I
certainly didn't think I was talking to Russia or Austria, unless you
were Russia, and I wasn't thinking about anything but the fact that it
was too good not to talk about it.

You're right that Turkey/Austria is a one-sided deal. The problem is
that Turkey ends up with the edge of the board and naturally flanks
Austria. He is safe and can't be effectively attacked, while Austria
remains vulnerable, so eventually Turkey can either get a better and
better deal and/or stab Austria for the win. That is also, of course,
why I was so eager to work with you the whole time!

The problem is that you can't choose a middle path here. If Italy/
Russia wants Turkey dead, joining them is a good plan. Pretending to
do that then joining with Turkey is also a good plan, but striking out
on your own was an invitation for them to let me join up which is what
happened. By the time you were willing to talk, it was one turn too
late to turn things around once I was confident Russia was willing to
let me script the attack and Italy was willing to support into Greece.
And frankly, the withdraw of support in Fall 1902 while I was already
on a train to New Haven and the explanation you gave said to me you
weren't prepared to think and play as a team.

Your play makes a lot more sense now; you basically saw other people
playing one way because of my identity, and didn't want to play along
which is admirable, but also saw the other option as unacceptable for
strategic reasons, and tried to take a third option where there wasn't
one. Diplomacy is not about setting up interesting alliance matchups
and then playing fair! It's about crushing the opposition like a bug
and then going to find new opposition.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Yep, Tuesday
was very sad. Over all the game has been a sour one for me.

I did not join Russia's and Italy's attack against Zvi because from
Russia's correspondence it was clear the attack would be purely
motivated on the belief that Turkey's was Zvi, a player considered to
dangerous to let live.

At the same time I did not want an alliance with Turkey. The bit of
book I read said it rarely works out for Austria. I started off the
game in a bad place. To make things worse I messed up my and moved alb
->tri instead of alb-> Greece.

Later, to my surprise after being so against Turkey, Russia rejected
my offer to align against Turkey by disbanding the fleet in Rum
instead of Gal. I was also surprised that Turkey and Italy did not
work together and take Greece the turn beforehand. I had hoped for a
Russia/Austria against Turkey/Italy that would have been victorious
yet make for an interesting game.

To top it off Tuesday night gave me way more meta-game then I ever
wanted. For me it changed the game from Diplomacy to... I don't know
what.

Germany at some point if you don't mind I would like you to send me
Russia German correspondence. I would like to know what I sound like.
Sali...@gmail.com
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Process of
elimination, but I never would have suspected either. Very
interesting.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Wait, so....
wait, Scott is AUSTRIA?!

Tuesday must have been awkward.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: is that true for
anyone who takes a nap?
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Pretty sure Ska is
the right retreat if you trust France.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from France) - Autumn, 1903: Yo. I'm Alex
Richard, from Atlanta.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I take a nap and
general chat explodes
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: And. It. Gets.
Better!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1903: "Germany's
writing style was obviously Scott"

Fail! I'm the newbie, 'sceptical lurker'.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1903: Also, to the best
of my knowledge, Austria and Turkey are now allied against Italy and
Russia. I'm trying to straddle the two groups in order to get both to
attack Germany.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1903: From Yorkshire, I
assume?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: FWIW, I didn't
establish priors, but besides for Zvi being Turkey, I wasn't confident
about labeling anyone. Though, I've missed the past couple RL
meetings.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: France and
Austria, welcome to OB/LW NYC! Introduce yourselves.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: I deliberately
was trying to conceal my identity during the game, and I am curious to
know how effective it was. It had Zvi fooled at least. I was most
worried about my particular writing habits showing up. Feedback?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: <reliable
narrator voice> No. Way. In. Hell. </voice>
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: I wonder if people
will be less willing to backstab given the reveal. Knowing this group,
I doubt it...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: I agree, I am
loving this right now. :)
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: By the way, I am
actually laughing out loud right now. I love it. This is like a whole
new level of the puzzle! Plus it passes the tension while I wait for
the turn to trigger since I locked in everything a while ago.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I figured you
couldn't be Russia both because of how long it took you to communicate
with me, contrasted with how obsessed with the game you obviously
were, and because you clearly assumed I was Turkey, and several of
your communications didn't jive with my model of you if you thought
you were talking to me. In particular, the communications surrounding
the building of the second southern fleet.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: To actually
answer your question, Zach... I figured out Zvi almost immediately for
the reasons he posted. The first Tuesday after the game started, I had
lots of conversation with Andrew and Zvi, before I had figured out who
anyone else was for sure, and that got me to Andrew/Scott being Italy/
Germany. Once I had that figured out, Germany's writing style was
obviously Scott. Andrew's bad mood post came just a few hours after
Italy checked after the Venice backstab. Then this most recent
Tuesday, with my guesses in mind, I watched microexpressions on Andrew
and Scott, and they reacted appropriately during the discussion for
those countries respectively.

Incidentally, I dropped MANY clues about being Russia during our in-
person discussions. So many that I was shocked no one noticed!

But hey, I could still be proven wrong...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Austria: Turst?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I didn't realize
until you built the second army that it was even an option to build a
second army with the first stuck at home. It completely transformed
the game. So did Austria's typo on turn two to not get Greece,
although in that case I have no idea what happens next. First games
are like that. If we decide to play again, quality will be much
higher.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Yes the mile
high walls of text were a give away. I was surprised you did not go
turst in your writing at least at first.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Will, same with me.
though, being water locked, I think being unfamiliar with the rules
cost me a bit more than for other nations
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: And by zero
entropy I meant maximum entropy... Christ.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Zvi, I think you
underestimated how low of a priority this game was to me (especially
in the very beginning). I very nearly didn't sign up to play at all,
and I didn't learn the rules until a few turns in. Obsession didn't
take long to sink in though...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I was obvious,
if only because my analysis and my statements in-game always line up
and the writing style is hard to miss. Also, who else would write this
goddamn much?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: My priors were
zero entropy of course. Then people contacted me.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: I'm curious how you
established those priors
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: If we can get a
DM I'm fine with moving to email entirely. And wow. I had you as
Germany, but I suppose there's no reason you *couldn't* be Russia
aside from coming late to the party.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Oh, my
predictions were p~=1 that Zvi is Turkey, Andrew is Italy, Scott is
Germany.

For Zach I was p~=0.8 he was France and p~=0.2 he was England. Damn
you Zach!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Well, you asked
for it... william...@gmail.com

HAH! :D Are you having fun yet, Zvi?

Austria makes an excellent point, my older correspondence is already
disappearing - we really should save what we have now. Looks like e-
mail is strictly superior. We could also move the game entirely over
to e-mail, but we would need someone other than Zvi to resolve the
turns, or Zvi hands over Turkey to someone else.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Austria, that's
not *quite* right. It purges it from the listed here to save time, but
if you click on "messages" you get the whole archive.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: zdk...@gmail.com
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: FYI as far as
future record keeping this site purges itself. It looks like it keeps
a certain amount of characters. I have all of my correspondence with
the UK for instance but little with Turkey.
16 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1903: i'm convoying a
unit into Belgium. support from Pic would be greatly appreciated.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: We are
revealing, and allowing outside communication so we don't have to
check here all the goddamn time. I still suggest we all communicate
here most of the time, since it's an easy way to keep track of
everything now and for future record keeping and do it quickly, but
use email (or poke with it) when something is urgent. I want to both
keep track of everything I said and am keeping a journal of my own
thoughts, so we can go over it afterwords, and I hope many of the rest
of you are doing the same!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: we are
revealing, as well as moving to e-mail?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: OK, that's
everyone. I can be reached at the...@gmail.com; everyone else who
wishes to communicate in this way please share name/contact info here
so we know no one's faking.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: not dropping out,
just had a busy day yesterday (which won't be the case for the next
few weeks, at least). I vote yes as well.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Interesting. When I
say "vote on the reveal" I mean that I proposed we reveal who we are
and how we can be reached so we can negotiate without constantly
checking the site. The rest of us are good with the plan, but
obviously it requires everyone to agree. Vote in the global channel.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Oh, and just
because I think you might be interested, because you your metagame
analysis, getting Frances F-MAO -> to West Med wasn't strategic. I was
MIA yesterday, so we didn't coordinate his occupation of the channel,
which was a risk I was willing to take.

What do you mean "vote on the reveal"?
16 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Ok. And fwiw,
Turkey has been floating the possibility of a 5-on-2 against Ger and
Austria. There could be a conflict of interest here, since you're anti-
I and cooperating with Austria (at least for now) but that could be a
powerful strategic alliance since Ger-Aus have 13 supply centers
between them, and that benefit none of us.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1903: Sure, it's all
good.

And, yeah, you're right, I'll concentrate on attacking Germany this
next turn.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Also, please vote
on the reveal; if you say yes we're good to go.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: They're teaming up
on Italy. I tried to talk France out of it, he called Austria a useful
idiot and he wants a build. If France is willing to back off, we can
chop Austria up then chop up Italy while getting aid to you against
Germany next year. If France is determined to help Austria, that makes
things complicated and Russia will be very busy in the south for at
least a year.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Just noticed that A
tyr supported A Mar-> Pie. That's going to complicate your 5-2 idea if
France and Aus are teaming up against Italy (but not Germany?).
16 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1903: I think that, at
least for now, you should forget about Italy. He's talking a pounding
from Austria right now and will be distracted. We need to concentrate
our forced on Germany if we want to win this. Our current forces in
the region combine barely even match German firepower.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1903: or for me to gain a
supply depot before builds
16 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: yes, I can talk to
him about this. I'm sorry I didn't log on all day yesterday: super
busy day IRL which has got me behind, tactically.
16 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1903: sorry, had a really
busy day yesterday IRL, didn't have time to log on
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: OK, that leaves
England, who I'm worried is about to slip into Civil Disorder; if he
doesn't move then I'll take that as a Yes. I'll also see what we can
do about replacing him if he's dropping out; he'll still have four
centers so the position will still be viable.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: i vote yes
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I have strong
reason to believe that Austria and Germany are also in favor; if
either of you is not, please respond here. That leaves England and
Russia.
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from France) - Autumn, 1903: Yes
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I vote yes
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: A general
announcement: After getting a sufficient number of affirmative votes
(5 of the 6 other players including a non-NYC player) I am revealing
my identity; yes, I am the one writing the summaries at lw-
dipl...@googlegroups.com which are open to all. When I write those
summaries I am in "reliable narrator" mode and what I say is
trustworthy, since a large part of the point of this game is to give
us a basis for analysis and building our rationalism along with our
Diplomacy skills. Anything I say as Turkey, of course, is in-game talk
so take it as you wish; if I wish to make global commentary as Turkey
I'll do it here.

I'd also like to state that I'm not alone in that this game is taking
up far more time than I would like, because of the fact that we have
to constantly check for messages and that the turns last two days. If
ALL players approve via lw-diplomacy we can take this game into e-mail
mode so it goes faster and stops destroying our lives. Not that I'm
not gaining oodles of utility out of the game on net, but the time
sink is getting silly, so I vote yes. I assure you non-NYCers that
we'd much rather be rational, make good moves and win than help our
friends.
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: france moving away
his only fleet was a strong sign of trust, i take it your alliance is
going well. your biggest problem is not having an army on the
mainland, you could convoy into a few different provinces this turn.
also, germanys three fleets against your two is going to be impossible
to beat in the long run, either you need to disband an army (and thus
lose a center this turn somehow) and build a fleet, or france needs to
gain a supply depot and build another fleet, which could potentially
be bad for you down the road
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Can you help get
France to not harass Italy? Assuming I'm reading the situation
correctly, you guys need the extra fleet and the complication is going
to make it much harder to open an eastern front on Germany. We're
happy to make this a 5-on-2 against Germany/Austria if he'll play
along. He thinks Italy is some sort of threat, which is silly.
14 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1903: Would you please
tell me in the future when you change a move I've said I'd support?
14 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Spring, 1903: In my orders, I'm
assuming that you're going to convoy your army in London to Belgium;
I've got two armies supporting that move. Please, tell me if that's
not so.
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1903: well, that was an
interesting build by germany. i am glad i guessed right and disbanded
my southern fleet. this suggests he is coming after me, it gives you
and france a prime opportunity to make some gains and break the
stalemate
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1903: I'll think about
letting you into Sweden in the Autumn, but letting me into the EC
means you could be in Spain by Autumn 04.
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1903: Re Sweden, well I
had 2 units there and you only had 1. It seems fair to me that I get
Sweden, not a stab.

Re Belgium and France, well I genuinely did try to carve up France as
quickly as possible, but it ended in a stalemate, and the units I sent
east would not have been able to break the stalemate.
I realise that I have more SC's then you, but I have genuinely been
trying to make progress in France.
The fastest way to make progress against France is for you to allow me
into the EC. London is protected by two armies, allowing me into EC
does not make you vulnerable.
12 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1903: Oh, in case that
wasn't clear: if I take MAO, I need another build, which means I need
sweden.
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Spring, 1903: They said they
didn't know, in a message to me.

Anyways, are you going to the North Sea, or to attack Belgium
amphibiously? (So I can know whether to support you.)
12 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1903: That is certainly
a possible move, but understand that all fleets in the North sea plus
your unwillingness to let me move into Sweden, from my point of view,
starts to look like a stab.
I let you have belgium, when I couldn't move into the mainland quickly
enough and, though we were supposed to carve up France quickly, your
move east and north: I start to think that maybe something is going on
there.

Your view is right on a couple of accounts: With italy tied up, Spain
and portugal are ripe for the picking, and that requires MAO. However,
a move there now does expose my mainland. A backstab from you at this
point would end me, and you haven't really thrown me any bones yet.
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I realised you
would move to the north sea, and so because you didn't reply to my
message I had to move there to stop you and stop France getting EC.
Plus it looked like a stab and I am reluctant for you to go to the
north sea which boarders three of my supply centres.

Anyway, If we are to beat France we need to gain control of MAO. How
about in autumn you move to the Irish sea and I move to EC (this does
not give me a chance to stab you as london is well guarded)?
12 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Sorry the move to
North sea bounced. I think by now Germany suspects our alliance more
then ever (no word from him yet). If I try again, it will be with
fleet support
12 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: That about sums it
up. I'm thinking about tactics now. Your input is appreciated.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1902: Are you talking to
France? My intel isn't that reliable but it says he wants to be on
your side against Germany. And make no mistake; if Germany builds
another fleet you've been stabbed.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: coordinate with you
against germany, rather
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: losing that supply
depot hurt, but i understand you did not want to reveal the alliance.
still i think it is obvious from the moves germany is against you, and
this worsens our position. france asked me to coordinate with you
against england, still have no idea what he is playing at, i am hoping
he attacks germany
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I had to move to
the north sea, else France would have taken EC, and that would be bad.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: Hmmm.

Pity, but it doesn't matter. You can take Belgium this turn; I'll
support you from Picardy, and Burgundy if necessary; since your fleet
will then be free, you can still defend both Edinburgh and London.
11 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1902: So you meant that
a move to the North sea is only pointless if I do it?
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: Let's go back to
the original plan
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: This plan is a bad
idea: moving to the north sea is pointless and I'm taking Sweden
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: Got it, thanks.
11 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: do it
10 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: Italy's just
claimed that they're going to retreat from Piedmont in order to deal
with Austria, so my southern border should be secure.

If you're moving your army to Picardy, though, then you don't get any
new supply centers anyways, and barring random luck like Germany
retreating, you can't capture Belgium as it is.

Wrt the North Sea, while that's certainly doable, it requires the F-UK-
R alliance to lose Sweden long-term, and possibly Norway as well.
(Russia, assuming that it doesn't invade Norway, can only attack
Sweden with one army, from Finland. Germany can block that attack with
its fleet, and prevent you from landing troops in Norway by attacking
from Sweden- and capture it if you don't then use your North Sea fleet
to move reinforcements there, so you'll have no naval support against
Holland, and Denmark. By keeping his fleet in Bothnia attacking
Finland, his army in Sweden attacking Norway, a fleet defending
Holland, and armies in Munich, the Ruhr, and Prussia, Germany will be
able to stalemate me, you, and Russia indefinitely with a new army or
fleet left over to attack.) That doesn't make much sense to me, when
I've got an unused fleet sitting in Mao that can be used to hold the
English Channel.
10 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I'm trying to
think of another angle to this: Let me take Sweden with F Nor-> Swe,
with sup move from A Den (if this is a legal move, I'm not sure how
the water boundary works there). That'll free up your F Baltic sea to
move into the russian mainland, and I get another build. I'll move F
Eng Channel into North sea. It's risky, b/c F could move MAO-> EC, but
he won't suspect that first turn. Meanwhile, I'll be able to build
another fleet and start bringing my armies into france from the North.
Russia is tied up with Turkey, so with your support, taking Sweden
will be trivial.
10 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I agree. I'm
strategizing on the best way to balance getting my troops to where
they can be useful vs. revealing the alliance. As far as I can tell,
France is ok though this next turn should reveal some truths.
10 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: austria tells me he
is not committed to any side yet, but that he thinks it is not in his
interest for me to fall and that he does not like germanys aggression.
we may yet have a chance against a france/germany alliance. i still
think you should use norway to support sweden, germany cant be allowed
another build or you are dead as well
10 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Lets think this
through: If I move my fleet out of the Channel into the North Sea,
then my armies are landlocked for yet another round. I don't get any
new supply centers so I don't build.

I can also move my fleet out of Norway into the North sea to prevent
German occupation there.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: If you're absolutely
sure you want to do that, then tell me and I'll move aside; with that
said, there are a few disadvantages to that plan. First, if Germany
moves F Bel -> Pic, then your move gets blocked. Second, I think I may
be able to convince Italy to back off, since Austria's already
attacking them. Third, that leaves you unable to reinforce Scandinavia/
attack Denmark, meaning that a stalemate will probably result and
Germany will be able to keep Sweden (so he'll have 7 supply centers
total). Fourth, that means I only have one to two offensive outlets
for my 4 armies and fleet, Burgundy and Marseilles, so Italy can block
me with its one army and Germany can block me with two- certainly not
the most efficient way to attack them. Fifth, if you do take Belgium,
then Germany can retreat its fleet to the North Sea, threatening
Norway, Edinburgh, and London; you don't have enough armies to land
one in Picardy, and leave two to defend Edinburgh and London, plus
that pins you down in Norway. That gets prevented if you occupy the
North Sea using your navy in the English Channel, and I then occupy
the English Channel.
9 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Here's another idea:
If you let me take Pic (temporarily, obviously) then I can more
effectively wage a land war with Germany. I'll move into Pic next
round then take over Belgium with support from my fleet. Meanwhile,
you can concentrate on kicking Germany out of Burgandy and keeping
Italy at bay.

This has two benefits: Germany won't know about our alliance until the
last possible moment, and I'll be able to get my Armies onto the
mainland that much sooner in a way that allows my fleet support
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: Actually, do you
mind if I move my fleet to the English Channel instead, so I can
better support a land attack on Belgium?
9 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I need to think this
over and get back to you.. thanks for the info!
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1902: If Russia collapses,
you'll get, at most, one SC: St. Petersburg, and Germany will probably
get two: Sweden and Warsaw. If Germany collapses, you might be able to
get two plus: Holland and Denmark, plus a chance at Sweden and Kiel,
and Russia will probably get 1: Berlin. So attacking Germany is
probably the better choice.

OTOH, you could delay, ally with neither this turn, make excuses, and
move F English Channel -> North Sea, which puts you in a better
position to fight against either side, since then you can land armies
in either Scandinavia, Denmark, or Holland.

PS: So we can avoid conflicts this time: I'm moving all my armies/
navies along the coast one province to the right: Mao -> Bre, Bre ->
Pic.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I don't mind about
holding Burgandy. I've given the situation some thought, and the only
way we are going to break France is by using our superior naval power
and taking MAO. I suggest you move your fleet in Norway to NAO, but
not right away as otherwise Russia's fleet could retreat to Norway
when I take Sweden.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: i have not heard
anything from france yet this turn, i will let you know when i do. i
made a hard sell to him that allying with you against germany is the
smartest play, since a strong germany will be a major threat, and
germany is weak right now with split forces. if france/germany are
allied we are in serious trouble
9 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1902: hi there! Looks my
attempts at getting onto the mainland are not going very well at all!

Two questions for you, if you feel like answering them: What do you
think Germany is up to moving back to the easter front...?

Russia is asking me to support his hold onto Sweden against a German
invasion and join up with you against Germany. It seems that Russia
needs me (and you) more than Germany does, and I'm not sure how long
it's going to be before Germany comes after me. The easy thing to do
right now is to slip into St. Petersburg to get the supply depot - but
this would obviously support Germany's invasion, but in the long term,
it might be easier to deal with Germany sooner rather than later.

Your thoughts?
9 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I could make this
plan work diplomatically only if I can get France to trust me (which
could be difficult).

Also, how much do you trust France? Look how Germany turned his armies
and fleets towards his eastern border. The plan was to carve up
france, then turn east. Since he's doing this prematurely, I suspect
he may have cut a deal with France (which would be bad for both of
us).

Either way, I'll see if I can get anything out of F diplomatically.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Russia still thinks
we're at peace in the North sea. I'm considering changing that to get
another supply center, but the lack of progress in France has made me
nervous to take that plunge.

With another French unit in Gas, I don't see how you can both support
a convoy to Pic AND take Paris. He knows a direct attack on Brest is
out of the question now, since the fleet in MAO and A Gas can easily
hold support.

Here's my predictions for F next move
F Marseilles hold
F Gas sup hold Marseilles
F Brest ->Pic
F MAO hold support Brest

Or more likely
A Gas -> Bur
A Paris move sup ->Bur

Won't you need A Bel to hold onto Burgandy?
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: Also, have you
considered taking St. Petersburg?
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: It tried to, but
support was broken by an attack from Paris. The fleet in Belgium can
also support Lon->Pic this turn, if you want to try again.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: look at it this way.
germany is going to support move into sweden next turn, and got
belgium this turn, so that is two new builds. germany having split his
armies, france has enough strength to keep you two at bay for a long
time, which means you wont be getting new builds anytime soon. you are
short on builds, germany is adding two more, and you two are
inevitably going to war. your fastest way to expand is to push into
germany with the help of france. if norway support-holds sweden, we
bounce his attack and keep a supply depot out of his hands
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: It tried to, but
support was broken by an attack from Paris. The fleet in Belgium can
also support Lon->Pic this turn, if you want to try again.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: italy is allied with
me already, he has to be if austria and turkey are together. the move
into france was obviously just opportunistic (look at his fleet
moves), and now that austria backstabbed him i highly doubt italy
wants war with france. germany is one of the strongest players after
turkey, this is a golden opportunity for you two to take out a major
threat and grow while i distract the triple alliance
9 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Italy has said that
he's going to form an Alliance with France and yourself? By the way
he's pushing into Marseilles, I doubt that very much.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Thought A Bur was
going to Sup Lon ->Pic
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: it looks like
austria and germany have decided to join turkey after all. i think the
best approach is for you and france to join me and italy against them.
germany attacking me means his western front is weak, you two combined
could easily push into german homelands. get him on the defensive, so
i can hold austria and turkey at bay
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Spring, 1902: I bet you can. When
you make your orders to move from MAO to spain it will either be spain
north coast or spain south coast.
8 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1902: I can't take spain
and occupy only the north coast of spain. I could stay in the MAO, but
that defeats the purpose of getting a supply center!
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Spring, 1902: It does. Spain and St
Petersburg have north and south coasts that border of different
territories. It's why russia didn't take Norway spring of '01.
8 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1902: haha... a reasonable
request, though I don't think Geography works like that in this game.
8 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1902: supporting my move
to Pic would take some of the guesswork out (with your support, France
won't be likely to bounce). This would delay your takeover of Paris,
but would give me a chance to support your take over of Paris.

So I would say A Bur sup Lon->Pic, if you can wait a turn on Paris.
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Spring, 1902: I have no problem
with that. Although I'd prefer if you stayed on the north coast of
spain.
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Would you prefer A
Bur ->Par, or A bur sup Lon->Pic?
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Would you prefer A
Bur ->Par, or A bur sup Lon->Pic?
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Would you prefer A
Bur ->Par, or A bur sup Lon->Pic?
8 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1902: What are your plans
with F Pie? I think a triple pronged against F would be devastating.
Ger - go after Paris, I - Marseilles and E - Brest. I want Spain/Por,
this will allow a quick supply center capture, and free us up for the
eastern front.
8 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1902: I see what you're
saying, but if I move my fleet out of the channel, I lose my way to
convoy to the mainland (especially if I hold F Norway). I'm guessing F
isn't going to want to hold F @ Por, since there isn't much threat
there (except Italy coming up from Tunis?).

What's the point of trying to get to MAO, if F Por - MAO tries it too.
I just get bounced out.

this is what I'm thinking:
either
A Lon - Pic (via convoy)
A Bur - Paris
F Hol - Bel



France will be expecting an attack from both of us, and I think Italy
is planning to join the party. So he won't know if I'm going for Bel,
Pic or Brest... but he must figure that you're gonna go for Paris. If
we can get Italy to assault Marseilles this round, it will leave F Bur
- Paris, cutting off support for Brest or Pic (and even if that fails,
he has a 50/50 shot of defending the right territory - Brest is the
bigger loss, so I say he'll try to protect it). After I have Pic and
you have Paris, you can support an attack on Paris (if he brings
reinforcements up from Spain/Por - if not I can probably take care of
it myself).After that I can bounce to MAO and pick up Spain/Por (or
split them with I). Then we can turn to Russia via North sea and Ska.

what do you think?
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Actually, I'm not
sure, maybe we should go with your plan. Let me know which you prefer
and I will go with that.
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Actually, I'm not
sure, maybe we should go with your plan. Let me know which you prefer
and I will go with that.
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Actually, I'm not
sure, maybe we should go with your plan. Let me know which you prefer
and I will go with that.
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Re convoying to Pic
- this could be a bad idea as it allows F Por->MAO. I suggest sticking
with the original plan, except I might move to Pic instead of Gas

Fleet in Holland is moving to Belgium.

Which fleet was planning to retake the north sea? If you move Norway -
> North sea it leaves Norway defenceless.
I am interested in a combined attack on Russia as well!

Re Zvi's analasis.

Zvi thinks "England should be at least a little
concerned that Germany has two fleets and he put one of them in
Holland
instead of Denmark"

However, from information on openings I looked up online:
"DUTCH OPENING, BURGUNDY ATTACK VARIANT
This is Germany's third most common opening, and a standoff in Bur may
well be arranged. This is Germany's most westerly oriented opening,
and its success is usually dependent on who, if anyone, has entered
the English Channel.
This is almost the same as the Dutch Blitzkrieg (where Munich moves to
Ruhr). It shows the role of A Mun as Germany's "swing" unit. It sets
the tone and direction of Germany's opening. England is an ally,
Russia is neutral, and France is the objective. The attack on Burgundy
is a direct assault on France. It may stand off an unsupported French
move to Burgundy. If Germany's attack succeeds, the blow to French
defenses is serious."
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Re convoying to Pic
- this could be a bad idea as it allows F Por->MAO. I suggest sticking
with the original plan, except I might move to Pic instead of Gas

Fleet in Holland is moving to Belgium.

Which fleet was planning to retake the north sea? If you move Norway -
> North sea it leaves Norway defenceless.
I am interested in a combined attack on Russia as well!

Re Zvi's analasis.

Zvi thinks "England should be at least a little
concerned that Germany has two fleets and he put one of them in
Holland
instead of Denmark"

However, from information on openings I looked up online:
"DUTCH OPENING, BURGUNDY ATTACK VARIANT
This is Germany's third most common opening, and a standoff in Bur may
well be arranged. This is Germany's most westerly oriented opening,
and its success is usually dependent on who, if anyone, has entered
the English Channel.
This is almost the same as the Dutch Blitzkrieg (where Munich moves to
Ruhr). It shows the role of A Mun as Germany's "swing" unit. It sets
the tone and direction of Germany's opening. England is an ally,
Russia is neutral, and France is the objective. The attack on Burgundy
is a direct assault on France. It may stand off an unsupported French
move to Burgundy. If Germany's attack succeeds, the blow to French
defenses is serious."
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Re convoying to Pic
- this could be a bad idea as it allows F Por->MAO. I suggest sticking
with the original plan, except I might move to Pic instead of Gas

Fleet in Holland is moving to Belgium.

Which fleet was planning to retake the north sea? If you move Norway -
> North sea it leaves Norway defenceless.
I am interested in a combined attack on Russia as well!

Re Zvi's analasis.

Zvi thinks "England should be at least a little
concerned that Germany has two fleets and he put one of them in
Holland
instead of Denmark"

However, from information on openings I looked up online:
"DUTCH OPENING, BURGUNDY ATTACK VARIANT
This is Germany's third most common opening, and a standoff in Bur may
well be arranged. This is Germany's most westerly oriented opening,
and its success is usually dependent on who, if anyone, has entered
the English Channel.
This is almost the same as the Dutch Blitzkrieg (where Munich moves to
Ruhr). It shows the role of A Mun as Germany's "swing" unit. It sets
the tone and direction of Germany's opening. England is an ally,
Russia is neutral, and France is the objective. The attack on Burgundy
is a direct assault on France. It may stand off an unsupported French
move to Burgundy. If Germany's attack succeeds, the blow to French
defenses is serious."
8 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1902: Re convoying to Pic
- this could be a bad idea as it allows F Por->MAO. I suggest sticking
with the original plan, except I might move to Pic instead of Gas

Fleet in Holland is moving to Belgium.

Which fleet was planning to retake the north sea? If you move Norway -
> North sea it leaves Norway defenceless.
I am interested in a combined attack on Russia as well!

Re Zvi's analasis.

Zvi thinks "England should be at least a little
concerned that Germany has two fleets and he put one of them in
Holland
instead of Denmark"

However, from information on openings I looked up online:
"DUTCH OPENING, BURGUNDY ATTACK VARIANT
This is Germany's third most common opening, and a standoff in Bur may
well be arranged. This is Germany's most westerly oriented opening,
and its success is usually dependent on who, if anyone, has entered
the English Channel.
This is almost the same as the Dutch Blitzkrieg (where Munich moves to
Ruhr). It shows the role of A Mun as Germany's "swing" unit. It sets
the tone and direction of Germany's opening. England is an ally,
Russia is neutral, and France is the objective. The attack on Burgundy
is a direct assault on France. It may stand off an unsupported French
move to Burgundy. If Germany's attack succeeds, the blow to French
defenses is serious."
7 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1902: By the way, what
are you planning with the fleet in Holland? My plan was to retake the
North Sea in prep for war against Russia. Looks like you have other
ideas though? Either way, in interest of our cooperation, I'd
appreciate you from refraining from any other fleet builds in the
region. Thanks!
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1902: I think that's an
excellent question, and the second fleet should bother you - I would
warn him not to build a third, would have tried to steer the first to
Denmark and kept him at one, if it was me, but it's a newbie game and
neither of you probably thought that through. Bottom line he's got a
good thing going. He gets to pick off Sweden to go to six centers and
carve up France with you, then has a natural second target in Russia.
He'd be pretty dumb to come after you. I'm more worried about Italy.
If he knew the game and was friendly to me he'd have built F Rome to
let me know he was going west, and he chose not to, so it's a little
scary, but this turn tells all for him. He can help distract Austria
for sure. My hope is that Austria is with us and we have 5 against 2,
but if not I'll obviously throw my lot in with E/G/I. Austria is not
going to be neutral in my war with Russia - if he's not with us, he's
against us. I'm offering to hand him Romania in the spring, and
hopefully he'll take it.
7 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1902: Idk if you've been
reading Zvi's analyses, but I am trying for Picardy. Belgium would
waste too much time, so it's yours and, to me, Brest seems more
likely. I'm betting that France will be putting more hold/support to
protecting Brest, leaving Picardy easier for the taking. I'll be able
to convoy a second army next turn and be able to do more damage the
next turn.

If the army in Burgandy is willing to support a my move to Pic, I'll
leave Belgium alone, support a similar attack on Marseilles later.

Has Turkey tried to contact you at all? He doesn't trust Austria and
expects to take a beating from Russia. Italy is a wild card, it seems.
7 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1902: I'm pretty sure
Germany is after Marseilles and(definitely) Paris. R is definitely
hostile to Turkey and T is friendly with G. Austria seems to be
playing both sides, so how much do you trust him? I'm willing to carve
up France peaceably with you and G (I'm looking towards Iberian) but I
don't expected R to stay distracted by T forever.

So how much to you trust Austria? If it's R/A against T, T won't last
long. We could get distracted in the West while R becomes unstoppable
in the East!
7 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1902: How much do you
trust Germany? With an E/G/I assault on France, I don't expect it to
hold for too long. It seems that Aus and Ger are friendly and I have
an alliance with Ger. Neither myself nor Russia can afford war in the
North sea for now, but if we can pit I/Aus against each other, it
would leave E/G/T alliance free for a three pronged assault on Russia
and France is carved up. Lack of action between R/G is a question of
diplomacy, however.
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1902: That depends on
Austia and Italy. Austria is playing both sides and I suspect his
failure to support me was no accident. If he is friendly then we have
time. If not it is pretty bad. If I face all three I probably lose so
fast it does not matter. Italy is looking. A lot like a Lepanto move
to East Med; he says he will go west but he is at least keeping
options open...
7 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1902: Russia's no friend
of mine, but I can't afford a two front war right now. In a couple of
turns, I have plans to turn toward StP, but can't right now
unfortunately. I hope to do this while it's still strategically useful
for you. Please let me know in advanced how long you think you can
wait. Thanks!
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1902: my plan is to hold
my fleet on sweden. i will be busy with turkey and not interested in
northern conflict, i will not take norway if you decide to use that
fleet elsewhere
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1902: Now that he's
clearly hostile (Romania was supposed to be a deal to get rid of the
fleet, and he said he wouldn't build in Sev), I'm recruiting allies
against Russia. It would likely take little effort to walk into St.
Petersburg reasonably soon, and there's little Russia could do to
strike back.
7 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1902: hasn't mentioned
anything to me so far. My word of Norway in exchange for North/Nor Sea
peace still stands.
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1902: turkey will try to
draw up an alliance with you against me, now that i have built a fleet
in sevastopol. he is a strong player, and needs to be taken out
quickly for all of our benefit, i recommend that you do not interfere
7 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: England unless
you are waiting on dipl, you are not, press your ready button.
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1901: You have to click
the "ready" button near the save button or we wait for the full two
days to pass.
6 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1901: ready!
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1901: Everyone else is
ready to proceed if you are.
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1901: Yeah, if I knew you
two were going after France I'd be there by now.
6 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Just busting your
chops :-P Going after Marseilles, then?
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1901: My mistake then. I
just figured that after you took the channel.
6 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Who says we are? Or,
rather, who says I am?
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1901: How's it going up
there? Sorry I'm late to the gobble up france party, didn't realize
you and Germany would both be coming and starting so soon.
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: *in mr Burns voice*
Exxxxccellent...
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: *in mr Burns voice*
Exxxxccellent...
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: *in mr Burns voice*
Exxxxccellent...
6 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1901: none to speak of.
Lets go with this!
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: Let me know if you
have a better plan
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: Let me know if you
have a better plan
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: Let me know if you
have a better plan
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: It is unfortunate
that convoying to Belgium failed, as if you take it this turn it slows
the attack on Brest. I propose:

Spring:
F English Channel -> MAO (should bounce)
A Bur->Gas
A Munch(where I will build an army) -> Bur
F Hol->Bel
Autumn:

F English Channel -> Brest
A Gas support English Channel -> Brest
A Bur -> Paris (Cutting support)

If this goes to plan, it leave me with Belgium and you with Brest.
After that I take Paris, possibly Marseilles and you take Portugal and/
or Spain, dependant upon what Italy does.
6 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Btw - Being in the
Channel made France nervous, so he moved an Army into Brest. Send me a
postcard from Paris!
6 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Btw - Being in the
Channel made France nervous, so he moved an Army into Brest. Send me a
postcard from Paris!
6 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Just checking in:
Any thoughts on the board, especially regarding France?
4 Dec 2010 (To: France, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Right now I'm more
interested in getting open supply depots than launching land wars.
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from France) - Autumn, 1901: Hiya England,

I'm wondering what you intend to do with your fleet in the English
Channel. Brest is, after all, currently a little exposed; while I'd
rather take Portugal, for now I'm going to have to keep my fleet in
Brest to defend it.

Thanks,
France
4 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Lots of 'em! Which
ones would you like to know about?
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901:
----------------------
So you have no thought?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1901: Thank you! Lets keep
an eye out for who winds up controlling central Europe, and then draw
up terms for an alliance when it becomes prudent to do so.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: Agreed... we could
easily get distracted by France
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: Thanks for the
warning. Let's defeat France as quickly as possible and then we could
turn east, dependant upon the the general situation.
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: i agree with you,
war between us right now is not good for either of us, norway is yours
3 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: Fair warning:
Russia admitted his plan to expand into Swe and Nor. Not surprising
but he might be planning an attack through Denmark from the north
3 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1901: I understand your
concern, and I admit I don't want war on my eastern front, but you're
basically asking me to give up an easily accessible supply depot in
exchange for peace. I don't see what you're giving up in this deal.

If you let me have Norway, I'll keep the peace while you concentrate
on attacking either Austria or Turkey. When we've expanded a bit, we
can form an alliance against Germany and/or Austria and divide up our
respective spheres down the middle.

What do you say?
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: after taking norway.
if you go northern, youre either attacking me or germany, and i dont
want armies sitting on my border
3 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1901: Sweden is yours, but
please clarify regarding Norway: Do you mean stop before taking Norway
or after?
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: Sounds reasonable.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: And we have a
full game. On the repeats, I find you have to hit the Global (or
similar) button to avoid repeats.
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: i am going northern,
and will stop at norway. peace?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: Sorry about repeated
messages guys... it's happening by accident when I refresh the page.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: Is it possible to
kick/replace them?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: France is in the
house, which is good, but I don't know how to replace Russia and we
definitely can't do it before Spring 1901. I'm acting like Russia is
in Civil Disorder until we see orders or a message.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: Is it possible to
kick/replace them?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I'll take that as
a no. Shall we all agree that unless they show up this is a five
player game and carve them up accordingly?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: I'd like Belgium
too, to protect the channel. You get denmark and holland. You can go
after Paris while I attack Brest. Depending what France and Italy do,
I can convoy to Spain and support an attack on Marseilles, which you
can keep. Sound reasonable?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1901: oh.. I was half
joking about that. Game play would be more interesting if we can just
replace them. Shouldn't be hard to find people who want to play - I
already know of 1.
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: I claim Belgium,
Holland, Denmark.

Depending upon factors such as whether France does anything, I could
go for Paris while you go for Portugal, Spain and Brest, and you can
of course take Norway regardless of what France does!
2 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1901: oh.. I was half
joking about that. Game play would be more interesting if we can just
replace them. Shouldn't be hard to find people who want to play - I
already know of 1.
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: Global.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1901: Sorry... what
alliance are you referring to?
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I'd definitely be
open to something like that, although obviously it will be a while
before the two of us can meaningfully interact. Might not be that long
if Russia's not in the game at all, but that would be a shame.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Has anyone
received a message from either of them?
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: You like this
alliance?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: I mean 5 on 2,
obviously.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: I mean 5 on 2,
obviously.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: 4 on 2 alliance
against F and R if they don't move within, say, 5 hours from the end
of turn?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Spring, 1901: 4 on 2 alliance
against F and R if they don't move within, say, 5 hours from the end
of turn?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1901: Sure!
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: Care to talk?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: -------
Are France and Russia playing?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1901: We both share borders
with France, if this is what you're alluding to!
2 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1901: I see that you that
you have formed an alliance with Germany. FYI, I'm negotiating a
tactical alliance with Germany as well. This information could be
useful to you for mid-game tactics: if Germany decides to backstab
either of us, perhaps we can coordinate retaliation? Not a bad
insurance policy for either of us, to maintain control of our
respective spheres.
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Let me know if
you're ever interested in going after Russia, as sentiments seem to be
headed in that direction and it could be an easy raid to pick up St
Petersburg. Either way, curious what's happening over in the other
corner of the world. Tell everyone I said hi.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: I agree. It seems
as if you've also negotiated an alliance with Turkey. Obviously, at
this point of the game, I'm not that worried about Turkey, but I will
be on guard for shifting allegiances as it effects mid-game tactics!

Do you have any specific territorial requests that would be important
for coordinating invasion tactics?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Affirmed by
Turkey. Good luck, everyone!
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: Announcing
mutual defence pact between Germany and Turkey: if Russia moves or
supports a move against Germany, Denmark, the Baltic sea, Turkey,
Bulgaria or the Black sea, both Germany and Turkey will retaliate.
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: So are we agreed to
combine forces against France?
1 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: I was thinking
about sending you the same message, actually.
1 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: Hello,
Would you be interested in an alliance against France?
1 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Spring, 1901: Hi and welcome to the
diplomacy game. I was just wondering if you saw any avenues for mutual
cooperation.

-I
1 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: Thoughts on the
board?
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