France's Chat Log

[Alex Richard]

11:22 AM (To: Global, from Germany) - Well done turkey. Are we going
to go back over this on LW? I don't think much actual formal game
theory was used, but discussing the game could still prove
interesting.
Tue 03 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Aside from potential center
shuffle in Brest, only one question remains: Will Italy survive?
Tue 03 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - I am supporting Mar-Spa on the
last turn with Por, and using Mid to cut Gas, if you want to pick up a
center and punish the Italians for their betrayal.
Tue 03 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Reminder to all: I will be
publishing my full communication logs at the conclusion of the game,
and encourage others to do the same. If there is anything you wish me
to censor (so far no one has requested anything) please say so before
the conclusion of the game.
Tue 02 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - ...and that's game. Moscow
supports Ukr-War, Gal-Vie, Vie-Tri, Rom S Ven, Ion-Nap and the eastern
17 are safe plus Portugal means 18. Good game, everyone!
Tue 11 AM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Aw shucks, France
really did cooperate! I admit I did not expect that to happen given
our previous interactions, but I am glad that the desire to win won
out, so to speak. I figured France would defect, Turkey's victory was
guaranteed, and that I would get the highest ending score by taking as
many SCs as possible this turn.

Good game guys. This has been eating my life and I am VERY eager to
move on.
Mon 10 PM (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1908: OK, done.
Mon 05 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Best of luck to
you, Turkey!
Mon 05 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: Okay, the moves
for this turn are finalized.

Russia: StP-Bar, Gal-Ukr, Tyr-Boh, Mun-Sil, Kie-Ber, Hol-Hel, Ruh-Mun,
Par H.

England: Nor-StP, Den-Bal, Lon-Yor, Eng S Bre-Mid, Gas S Gul-Spa

France: Mar-Pie, Bur-Mar, Bel-Pic, Bre-Mid

Italy: Gul-Spa
Mon 03 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

Okay, so, I don't think Gas can support Italy into the SOUTH coast of
Spain, which means we need to make some changes:

Mar S Gul-Spa, Bre S Gas-Mid, Eng-Iri, Nor-Eng, Hol-Nor. That keeps
Turkey out of Irish Sea and English Channel, forces him to retreat to
NAO or Portugal. My fleet can then convoy Yor-Den next turn (should
probably double-check the rules on this), or move to Norwegian Sea to
contain, depending on the situation.

Par-Gas, Bur-Par, to take back the SC and get my army in position to
support Spa or Mar. Bel-Ruh, France can then move the army to the
front, or take my SC in Hol next turn, depending on whether my
northern fleet will be useful or not.

Let's check those rules, and make sure I'm not making a mistake
anywhere. What if he goes MAO-Irish and bounces the fleet, can he then
retreat into Irish anyway?
Mon 02 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

FYI, just in case something weird happens where I keep an extra SC for
some reason, I am now moving Hol-Hel instead. That way I could
potentially keep a fleet up north, to help England convoy across North
Sea while he kills off the northern Turkish fleet.
Mon 02 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: To Italy, France and
England:

I just realized that MAO could move to Irish Sea, shit. That puts Lvp
at risk, plus he could still potentially cut MAO's support into
Portugal if he so chooses. We should move Lon-Yor, to potentially
guard Lvp and optionally still convoy into Den next turn. That means
one less army in the north, but it can defend Lvp and Edi both against
a fleet behind the lines. We should be able to hold StP and War
without that extra army from England, but we can't make progress
against Moscow immediately, and we have to get the convoy chain going
after this year's builds.

Even if we move Eng-Iri to potentially bounce, he can still retreat to
NAO, and harass Scandinavia the following year, plus that means Mar
has to support into Spain instead of moving to Pie... Long run, that
fleet behind the lines will allow him to make progress in the north,
if we don't find a way to contain and destroy it. Depending on how
things play out, England might want to build another fleet next turn,
to force Turkey's fleet into a disband the following year.
Mon 10 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1908: This is going to
Italy, France and England:

We only have one chance to get a five-way draw instead of an outright
Turkish victory.

My moves are StP-Bar, Gal-Ukr, Tyr-Boh, Mun-Sil, Kie-Ber, Hol-Kie, Ruh-
Mun, Par H.

England should go Nor-StP, Den-Bal, Nor C Lon-Den.

France goes Mar-Pie, Bur-Mar, Bel-Pic. Either Mar bounces, in which
case Pic and Bur support into Paris to disband my army, or the move
succeeds and next turn I move Par-Bur. France keeps 4 SCs.

The three of you combined go Eng S Bre-Mid, Gas S Gul-Spa. That keeps
Italy alive and removes 1 SC from Turkey.

Turkey takes Mos, Nap, Por, and we hold him at 17. With perfect play I
don't think we can also take Portugal, unless Italy is willing to
sacrifice himself (which defeats the purpose of the deal), but maybe
it is possible: next turn definitely Mid S Spa-Por, and maybe Gas S
Mar-Spa depending on Turkey's moves this turn.

I will keep 4 SCs (Warsaw + Germany), to keep my four armies alive on
the eastern front. StP goes to England, and next turn he moves Eng-
Hol, to build armies in Lon and Edi. France gets Paris, loses
Portugal, stays at 4 SCs (unless Mar-Spa succeeds and that leaves Mar
open for a fleet build!). For the following year of builds, England
and France can trade SCs as needed in order to remove extraneous
fleets and build fleets and armies in the right locations.
Sun 11 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Disband Bur. Naples
will be taken, so Italy will accept survival in a draw over defeat and
work with us. Gas + Mar S Gul-Spa, and Bre S Eng-Mid. We can keep
Turkey at or below 17 supply centers and hold him to a draw.
Sun 11 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Going StP-Bar, Kie-
Ber, Hol-Kie, Gal D Tyr-Vie, Mun-Sil, Ruh-Mun.
Sun 10 PM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: Turkey is at
imminent victory. Our only chance is to all work in unison against
him. I have useless fleets, so you and England take half of my supply
centers next turn. England moves his armies into the north. You and
England use your fleets to push him out of Iberia. Disband the army in
Bel or Bur. My own army will only take one of your supply centers as a
trade for you to take mine as your armies move east, to keep enough to
retain my eastern armies.
Sun 10 PM (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: gg no re
Sun 08 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Let me know what
you'd like me to do with Mid and Spa (and if necessary GoL) in the
Spring.
Sun 07 PM (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1907: Or not.
Sun 06 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Done.
Sun 06 PM (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1907: Hmmm.

Yes.
Sun 04 PM (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1907: I'm going to wait
until after this turn to decide if Russia is hostile, I won't reject
your offer yet but lets just say I'm skeptical about anyone offering
me deals.
Sun 04 PM (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1907: did russia tell you
he's going to attack scandanavia? why do you trust this after he
stabbed you?
Sun 02 PM (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1907: I tried; I failed.

Anyways, let me be blunt. Turkey will get a solo win if you continue
to fight me and Russia. Neither Russia and I have enough force to
attack you and win, given that we're worrying about each even now,
when we're so near defeat. If you continue to support Turkey, then you
merely survive, while otherwise you can get a draw.

As it is, I'm going to cover Portugal and the English Channel, and
Russia's going to attack Sweden, Norway, and/or Denmark. You can't
make any progress against us anyways. I'm willing to support you into
the Western Mediterranean next turn; if you want me to, then attack
this turn, and I'll hold Spain from Marseilles. A response would also
be nice.
Sun 02 PM (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1907: I'm trying to get
them to attack Turkey, since they now seem to have some contact in the
South.
Sun 8 AM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: Italy's problem is
that it's hard to get big. You're often stuck at 4 centers, attacking
Turkey leaves you exposed to Austria and France while not attacking
Turkey leaves you with an ally who has tactical advantage on you and
wants to go through you in the midgame. Neither option is fun, and
often you do all right but are outpaced by another player. Austria's
problem is survival, and for him centers are vital. If you can pick up
the entire Balkans, Austria becomes strong, but Turkey is still very
hard to work with without giving him the edge and Russia will often
outpace you as an ally. Italy should be first choice if you have that
option.

The issue for Germany is that he's never strong enough to survive an
attack by everyone, and if he gets into a 2-on-1 in the west as the
strong 1 then what happens this game tends to happen: Eventually
Russia or Austria shows up. Many players will see Germany take Belgium
and then feel like the German isn't offering enough or is greedy or
can't be trusted, whereas once England or France is taken down you can
split the centers however you like to make it fair.
Sun 3 AM (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1907: If I agree to do
this, what are you going to do about England? You can't just move all
your units south. You would have to expect him to go after me instead,
and then I'll need my units in the north anyway. And if we ally
together, then England/Turkey have sufficient strength to take us down
(especially after Turkey grabs a few more centers).
Sat 06 PM (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1907: I would have
thought that Austria is weaker then Italy, as Austria can be attacked
by G/I/R/T, while Italy can only be attacked by F/A, neither of whom
generally want to attack Italy, and given openings like the lepanto
Italy can get off to a good start in the opening. And as I said,
Germany's 3 nearby SCs mean Germany can build up a lot of strength
quickly if he can avoid being attacked from all sides.
The stats I found said that Italy is 7th, Austria is 6th and Germany
is 3rd - so you're right about Austria and Italy. Germany isn't a poor
starting country, but I'm lumping it in with Austria as a central
power which can be attacked from all sides, so perhaps the two
countries should be considering similar strategies.
The problem with giving Belgium away is that it can make the other
country too powerful - for instance France could get 6 SCs in the
first year, and once England is defeated Germany can still be attacked
by Russia and Austria, or whoever has conquered them and taken their
place, while France boarders Italy (the weakest country) and a Russian
fleet or two. Basically, I would have thought Germany needs to take
more SCs then it's ally to compensate for it's vulnerable flanks.
Sat 06 PM (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1907: Hmmm. Ok, how's
this. You need to build an army in Moscow; you also need to have a
secure Western flank. I can guarantee you that, if you take Paris,
I'll shift my entire army northwards and fight you to the death; using
Marseilles and Brest, and disbanding Tuscany, I can prevent you from
making any more progress for another few turns, at least. Instead,
I'll offer you peace and Holland if you attack Turkey and leave
Burgundy; I'll also move my armies to the South, and keep fighting
Turkey. (By offer Holland, I mean not support it from Belgium; you'll
need to use both your army and fleet to take it, and I'll disband the
unit afterwards.)

Incidentally, just so you know that this is credible: I rejected five
separate peace offers from Germany, and two from Italy, after I'd told
them that I would destroy them. If I'm doomed to die either way, I'm
taking you down with me. I'd suggest that you let me live in peace.
Sat 05 PM (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: You chose Russia,
but he clearly wants you dead. The good news is, I'm going after him
either way, so he should be highly distracted soon, and I don't need
much in the west. I have no interest in going north of Mar-Spa-Por,
and there's a good chance I only need one (or even none) of them since
I only truly need them on the last turn, whereas I very much want
France to remain viable in the north to the extent this is possible.
I've repeatedly urged you to pull out of Italy, and given you a free
path to do so rather than trying to harass you. It doesn't really
matter now, since you'll presumably be disbanding them. Let me know if
we can help each other. One offer: If you use Brest to support North
Africa into the Mid-Atlantic and move Spain into Portugal (so he
doesn't retreat or move there), I will use it and my fleet in Spain to
defend you and retain only Spain.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: My other piece of
related advice: F Kiel - Denmark. A fleet in Belgium and an army in
Denmark are both out of position and annoying, and neither works out
all that often.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: In general, my
biggest piece of advice to future players of Germany is: Do not take
Belgium. Trade it to France or England, depending on who you want to
work with.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1907: My opinion is
that Italy is very weak, but that Austria is fine and Germany is
solid. The statistics back this up. Austria is high variance, if not
quite as high as Russia; a successful Austria can get very big
quickly.
Sat 05 PM (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1907: Thanks for the
game guys, I look forward to going over the game and perhaps trying to
think of some strategies for G/A/I to stop them getting crushed from
all sides in future! Not that I am blaming my defeat upon bad luck in
starting country - Germany has strengths in starting near 3 SCs,
unlike A/I who are just very weak.

Hope to play again soon.
Fri 7 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1907: You do realize that
Turkey is actually stabbing you, right, not just pretending to do so?
They'll retake Sevastopol next turn, while simultaneously taking
Rumania and holding Budapest. Don't keep attacking me- I'll fight you
every inch of the way, and you can't spare the units. Nor can I.
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from England) - Spring, 1907: Turkey is planning
on taking spain, possibly with Italian forces. I suggest offering
Italy a deal sweeter than being a turkish vassal-state
Fri 7 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1907: Confirmed, double-
support Tyr-Ven. Thanks, and good luck!
Fri 7 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1907: I'm assuming for now
that I'm double-supporting you into Venice; please message me back if
that's not the case.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1907: However, the
withdraw will be to Marseilles, so it may bounce with Italy.

Do you want a double-support into Venice?
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: Yes, but I have
the army/fleet choice so making sure everyone knows.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1906: aren't those the
only places you CAN build?
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: In order to aid
in negotiations not being held up: Turkey is building F Smy, A Ank, A
Con.
Wed 5 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: In order to aid
in negotiations not being held up: Turkey is building F Smy, A Ank, A
Con.
Tue 4 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1906: Yes, I'll withdraw
next turn.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1906: Turkey has declared
war on russia. are you going to side with turkey or russia? you have
territory to gain on either potential front and Zvi is probably the
more dangerous player.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: He beat me in by one
turn. This is life. Doubt it's going to make that much difference.
Wish you'd left Tuscany so I could know my flank was secure and you
were safe in the south, but you can't have everything. The offer is
full alliance, of course. I'm sure Russia is offering the same, but
I'm a far better ally. E/T/I is a winning group at this time; we're
already at 17, don't have to protect against stabs and have at most
two dead units (England's two armies), plus the early part of the war
is us taking centers from you in Por/Spa/Mar and me going into Bud/Rum
while Russia takes over Den/Swe/Nor, and perhaps Ven/Tri could be in
trouble to compensate but no more than that. Whereas with your help
this war is easy.
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1906: Well, given that
development, I suggest we work in tandem in Italy, and DMZ our
northern border. England won't make much progress against you without
my help. Move out of Bur, and I'll move out of Mun. I'll keep one army
in Kiel. Agreed?
Tue 4 Jan (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1906: I needed you to offer
me more then my original two centers three turns ago. It's been too
late for a while for me to survive. My forces were facing you and
turkey had me surrounded. I've been at his mercy for over a year.
Tue 4 Jan (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1906: You there?
Mon 3 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: Assuming you
withdraw from the area, I can have Italy de facto done at the end of
this turn, which frees me up for a stab in Spring 1907; if it works as
expected I can secure at least three of Vienna, Budapest, Romania and
Sevastopol in 1907. I intend to win outright, of course, but no reason
you can't survive at 6-10 or so centers when that happens depending on
what England does.
Mon 3 Jan (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: Hope you're right.
The timing here depends on the exact board position. Might be Spring
1907, might be Fall 1907.
Mon 3 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1906: On being ready:
Remember that the game only proceeds if *everyone* clicks ready, and
you can always take it back later. Thus, if you're ready to proceed in
the situation where everyone else thinks they too are ready, you can
safely click ready. I might well change my orders, but if everyone
else doesn't think I need to, then I won't, so I'm ready.
Sun 2 Jan (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1906: I fear I'm going to
have to leave a lot of my units in the North, until England stops
trying to attack me. Disadvantage of having a long coastline with few
fleets, I suppose. In the interim, I'm trying to support Italy.
Sun 2 Jan (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1906: Unfortunately they
weren't- I didn't know which of my centers England was planning on
attacking, so I had to defend Belgium. I should be able to hold out
against England and Russia indefinitely, though, so the road to St.
Petersburg should stay open.
Sun 2 Jan (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1906: What do you need me
to do for you to survive? My entire Southern force is at your
disposal.
Sun 2 Jan (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1906: Do you really want
to attack me? I've got my entire northern border guarded, plus a fleet
in the Western Mediterranean, so it'll be slow going- and you're
leaving all of Scandinavia completely open to an attack from Russia's
3-unit northern navy. In my situation, I'm hardly going to backstab
you in revenge, either.
Sat 1 Jan (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: Reminder to all:
You need to order both the army to move via convoy AND the fleet to
convoy the army to its destination for the order to be valid. Either
order by itself does nothing.
Fri 31 Dec (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1906: Okay, good luck.
Turkey has you outnumbered down there, so you'll need to fight smart.
I am trying to get Italy and Turkey to fight, to slow things down and
get Turkey's armies into the peninsula. Once they are out of
commission it will be much easier to stab him, esp if his fleets are
not in position to convoy.
Fri 31 Dec (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1906: Italy seems
unwilling to cooperate, but I'll try to maintain the pressure against
Turkey.
Thu 30 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: Needless to say, no
reason not to throw some support to Kiel if Holland and/or Ruhr are
free.
Thu 30 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1906: Thank you. I'm
worried that was the wrong fleet, since England has a free shot at
Portugal, but we can hope he doesn't notice and I won't point it out.
Thu 30 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1906: As you can see, I'm
complying.
Tue 28 Dec (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1905: You not attacking
me would be nice...
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Figured out you had
no intention of letting Germany hold and were making a deal with
Italy, so you weren't being straight with me. There was no deal to be
made. You didn't even trust me enough to tell me you were headed to
Naples, although I knew you were.

If you withdraw from the Italian area in a way that lets me freely
absorb Italy, I will pause to do so, you'll have units for the north
and I can hopefully use the builds to fuel my invasion of Russia. I
have no interest in the fall of France, I can't win the game that way.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Won't go to Naples
unless you give me the ok, to avoid confusion. If it happens to be
free I'd appreciate the shot at an extra center.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1905: anything you want
in return?
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: or if you want
support in, I can do that too
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: But to repeat the
question, should I order Ionian Sea to Naples?
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Might as well
support Munich if he's not doing anything, but as you say it's going
to be cut. Budapest is far more likely to be open than Vienna.
Sun 26 Dec (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1905: No, I won't attack
Venice.

Do you want a (probably worthless) support into Vienna from Tyrolia?
Sun 26 Dec (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1905: Italy (and
possibly Germany). The only reason I was supporting German troops was
that I wanted to delay Russian expansion- I'm not opposing you or
anything.

Also, since you obviously don't want me to, I won't move to the
English Channel.
Sun 26 Dec (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1905: How about now? You
said you were going to take holland, but are now supporting German
troops! Where are you planning on expanding to?
Sun 26 Dec (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Spring 1905
summary up on mailing list; I sent emails upon my return last night.
Sat 25 Dec (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1905: Russia is saying
Galicia was to support into Vienna, and I *almost* believe him on
that. In any case, it only gets in the way of the stab if he actually
uses it that way. I'll need A Trieste for the east, of course, but let
me know if you need a support cut in Venice (or if you can support me
in somehow, although Tyrolia is obviously cut if it tries). Also, let
me know if you're taking a stab at Venice, since it's free for me to
try if you're not going to.
Sat 25 Dec (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1905: It looks like if you
take Rome, Turkey is going to take Tunis.
Fri 24 Dec (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1905: Can you try to
persuade Turkey to stop supporting Italy/to not attack me? As it is,
I'm already not going to be able to support Munich from Tyrolia, and I
may not be able to support it from Burgundy either, depending on how
the situation develops.
Fri 24 Dec (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1905: Really, you can
trust me completely. I'm way too tied up in the South to think of
betraying you.
Fri 24 Dec (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1905: If you didn't want
me to move to the Channel, you could've just asked me, and I would've
moved to Mao or Picardy instead...

Anyways, I still oppose Germany, I just didn't want Russia to get too
much of the corpse. This way, you've got a shot at Kiel, and I've got
a chance at taking Munich.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: I will be away
on Christmas Eve and much of Christmas Day, so I plan not to check in
during that period. I should be back on the night of the 25th, but
don't read anything into it if I don't reply until the 26th. I will
assume that many of you have similar tasks to attend to, and as Tom
Leher says: On Christmas Day you can't get sore. Your fellow man you
must adore. There's time to rob him all the more the other three
hundred and six-a-ty a-four... Merry Christmas, everybody!
23 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1905: I've got Tyrolia
and Burgundy supporting Munich, Belgium holding, Paris moving to
Picardy, and Brest moving to the English Channel.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: The Trieste army
has... other matters to attend to, starting next turn.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: Agreed. Pushing
him out this turn accomplishes nothing and reveals what we're up to
for no good reason.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1905: OK. In that case,
I won't be able to support you into Venice this turn- I need to defend
Munich from Tyrolia and prepare to defend or retake Rome with
Piedmont. I'll do it in the fall, though.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: The plan is to do
it in the fall turn, yes. That turn seems clearly like the right time
to do it tactically.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1905: Hmmm. I got
Russia's message. I'm unfortunately not going to be able to take
Venice next turn, so the trade idea's off; however, I won't attack
Venice, nor will I support the Turkish attack.

Incidentally, would you be willing to trade Naples for Rome, instead
of Venice? I've got two fleets already in the southern front, so I
think it makes sense for me to be able to use them- especially since
you've only got armies for now.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: Conditional on you
and Italy working together successfully this turn, I will support you
into Trieste next turn and begin my own attack on him. I am not
turning against him unless we have numerical superiority, and Italy
working for Turkey makes this battle quite difficult. Otherwise, I let
him take Italy now and he will be knocking on your doorstep before the
time is right to move against him. Right now, while his forces are
away from home and he is unable to get more builds, is the best time
to strike.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1905: That depends. Are
you willing to attack Turkey next turn? 'Cause otherwise they've got
enough fleets piling up to eventually overwhelm any resistance Italy
and I put up, so we're going to need a distraction.
23 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Spring, 1905: Are you going to
attack Russia next turn? I'm worried that if I commit myself to
support Germany without you at least distracting Russia, they and
England will just steamroll over me and Germany.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Spring, 1905: Ok, I won't
mention this truce. However I will need you to support Munich to
prevent Russia from steamrolling me. Let me know your plans.
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: In the south, with
Italy on your side, you can successfully hold off Turkey. If I join
you as well, then we beat Turkey for sure.

Because Turkey is an incredibly strong player, I highly recommend we
ally against him in the south. I am willing to have completely
separate diplomatic relations with you in the north - in fact, that
could be quite fun indeed. Our interests may diverge in the two cases,
but so much the merrier. If we agree to this, your army at Tyrolia
must be devoted to the southern front. What say you?
23 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: I just sent this
to Italy: "Looking at the board, I actually think you should work with
France, if you think you can trust him. You currently hold two
centers, you can still keep at least that under this arrangement. If
Turkey convoys an army into Italy YOU ARE DONE. You know he can use
those supply centers better than you can.

France has to protect Tunis, so he moves Rom-Tyr, you move Ven-Rum and
Nap-Apu. Next turn you bounce Rom-Nap Apu-Nap, or Rom S Apu if you
suspect a support move. France can move into Trieste, especially if I
am outright supporting you two against him by then. Turkey has to
disband, and I will get to build a fleet in Sev, we will be in a good
position to take him down.

If France thinks you are working with him, it is also strongly in his
interest to let you get a supply center, so that you can build a fleet
right in the middle of the battle.

I am proposing this to France as well."
23 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1905: Nowhere, I fear.
They did tell me that their next goal was Denmark; also, I've been
trying to get England to fight Russia, but with little luck; could you
try to convince Russia to stab England, which would distract both
sides. (I fear I have no credibility with them at the moment.)

On a side note: Please don't tell anybody but Turkey about this truce
yet.
22 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Spring, 1905: Yep, I'm going to
move to the Channel.

I'll probably go for Holland from Belgium, and move Bur -> Bel, and
Par -> Bur.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Spring, 1905: Hey France, I see
you've got a new fleet in Brest. I assume that going towards the
channel and not MAO? I'm trying to decide whether to secure the
channel or retake the North sea. I'm curious what your plans are with
Holland, since its recently unoccupied.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: Germany reports
you've made a deal with him. Keep in mind that Russia will likely keep
England on his side at least at first, so you'll want multiple fleets
for the north. I'll have two fleets to help you finish off Italy, so
if we use A Pie and F Rom as well that should be plenty to beat a two-
center Italy with no fleets; you'll help me into Venice and I'll help
you into Naples.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1905: The opening
Russia played on my suggestion is a double-edged sword; it's obviously
superficially aimed at Austria but can be a setup of Turkey. I
certainly don't think it offers anything that dooms the two to a war,
but it's the most powerful thing R/T can do against Austria quickly.
The Bulgarian Gambit I've never seen pulled off successfully, but it's
obviously beautiful if you do.

I've offered my own strategic commentary, but I think that your
comments are mostly on point. There are certainly a lot of ways things
can go down.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1905: With those
disbands, Germany will fall quickly to the three of us. If you move on
Holland and Ruhr, I move on Munich and Kiel, we get at least one of
the four. That frees up your unit in Tyrolia to fight in Italy. I
still think we should be in a long-term alliance.
22 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1904: Ok, I agree.
Where are we standing with regards to England?
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904:
---------------
The has worked out well for Russia because of England initial mistakes
and disinterest on placing pressure on Russia's north. Germany's
current collapse puts Russia in a very strong position.
---------------
In addition because I feel like it my 2 cents. Interested in feed back
from Zvi on flaws in my view.
---------------
England has recovered a bit and looks to be working with Russia. Will
they try a backstab and go for ST.Petersburg? How are they going to
handle the German fleet in the North Sea? What do they expect to get
long term from an alliance with Russia?
--------------
Germany, can they make peace with France and hold off collapse? Doing
so would probably not gain them a win but would prevent destruction.
They still could be a king maker. How does Germany feel toward France
vs Russia? Who do they want to win?
-----------------------
France, if they can make peace with Germany and convince England to
attack Russia the game would find balance. They could push though
Italy or perhaps better give Italy back rome hold Tunis and work with
Italy and place pressure on the Russian/Turkey alliance. If Turkey can
not move forward they are forced to stab Russia.
----------
Russia, keep the status quo, keep the alliance with England, Crush
Germany, Stab Turkey before they stab you, Win.
--------
Turkey, you need to grow quicker. Can you use diplomacy to slow Russia
down while keeping him your friend? Can diplomacy get you into Italy
and the centers you need to keep pace with the northern bear?
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I did not
study that much book but I found this to be of use.

http://www.diplom.org/Online/Openings/interactive.html?

I don't know if Russia meant it but this is the description of his
opening:

UKRAINE SYSTEM, AUSTRIAN ATTACK VARIANT
Russia's second most popular opening, this generally means that Russia
is confident he has a Turkish ally against Austria. A drawback is that
the fleet in Rumania is poorly placed.
Russia must usually choose between a northern or southern strategy.
This means putting her eggs in the appropriate basket. Here she is
allied with Turkey against Austria. If there is a stand-off in Galicia
or Rumania, there will be support for the same order in the Fall.

[BULGARIAN GAMBIT]
This Austro-Russian combination requires a careful diplomatic setup of
Turkey, but guarantees to keep the Turk at three SC's by the end of
1901. Austria opens with Tri-Alb and Bud-Ser, while Russia sends the
Sevastopol fleet to Rumania. In the Fall, Turkey is convinced by one
or both of Austria and Russia to attempt a move out of Bulgaria, and A/
R combine to dislodge the unsupportable Bulgaria. Doug Beyerlein wrote
an article on the Bulgarian Gambit.
22 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1904: To be fair, as
Italy or Austria I'm going to want to kill any Turkey that takes the
Black Sea Spring '01. Either Turkey has Russia completely flummoxed or
has an alliance. Either way Turkey has a safe North border so either
he'll rape Russia or move west. I was going after Turkey regardless of
the player.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1904: He asked me
himself too. Just covering all his bases I guess?

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet. Meta-gaming, I'd put Turkey's
chances higher, though he can't do it in a vacuum, which makes our
cooperation valuable (to either T or R).

Cooperation makes sense until Germany's out of the picture. Until then
it should be interesting to see what shakes out.
21 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Turkey asked me
to ask you to ally with them...I'm not really sure why he didn't just
ask you himself.

I think that they, and Russia, are going to get into a war fairly
soon.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: There is a bug
in the game that prevents disbands from being locked in. We're simply
going to wait until the time runs out; not Germany's fault.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: See what you can
do. I think your proposal is beyond generous to you, but I'm more
interested in the bigger picture, I understand that your growth would
be stifled for a bit if we went after Russia. I'm not comfortable with
some of the details you proposed, but I can see doing a deal based on
a 3/1 split in Italy. Frankly, I think 2/2 is fair, but if a 3/1 that
makes me secure is the price to get F/T as the game's main alliance
I'd be willing to take it.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Again, I'm
willing to offer you peace and support against Russia in exchange for
me keeping Belgium.
21 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1904: England's neutral,
for now. Russia told me that they were allied with you, and England
told me their cooperation with Russia would end once Germany was "put
down." We may be able to recruit him.

I've been offering Germany peace agreements semi-continuously since
the start of the game, with my only demand being that I get Belgium,
but I haven't had any luck with that. I'll try again, though.
21 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1904: Russia supported
my move to Sweden, so we have [at least a temporary] alliance. Of
course, that move was more to keep Germany out of St.P than to through
me any bones. Once Germany is "put down" I'm not counting on an
alliance to last long.

I haven't spoken much to Turkey, since we're still not close enough to
interact meaningfully.

Right now, my sights will be set on Denmark, though I definitely want
to think of creative solutions for expansion.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: Thank you for the
warning. I'm confident he's not ready to start attacking me yet. I'm
not so foolish as to think this game ends 17/17 with Russia. He has no
intention of doing that, and he knows I have no intention of letting
that happen unless we're on a stalemate line. I am watching the border
very carefully, as I would advise you to watch yours up north.

Are you planning on making a deal with Germany to stop Russia and
England from eating the rest of it? If I make a deal for Italy that
only gets me one center I need Russia to stop growing.
20 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Agreed.

I'm not sure if you've spoken with Russia yet, but they suggested that
they'd take Kiel, I'd take Holland, and you'd take Denmark- is that
acceptable?

I'm indeed going to move a fleet to the English Channel, unless the
German armies collapse much faster than I expected. FWIW, I'll promise
not to attack you- I mean, it wouldn't make any sense to pick fights
with my allies, when Russia's just made a land grab for Munich and
Turkey's publicly announced that they want Italy.

Incidentally, are you allied with Turkey or Russia yet?
20 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1904: I take Naples with
a fleet, leave another in Tunis, and keep Rome; you take Venice with a
fleet; we establish the Ionian Sea and Piedmont as DMZ's, so it's
impossible for us to surprise attack each other.

Also, a word of warning: Russia's trying to get me to attack you. I'm
not going to (you're too tough a target for me to make any progress),
but you may want to watch your northern border, especially after he
gets a ton of new builds following the conquest of Germany.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1904: Hey France, great
turn reducing Ger to 4 centers. If I'm guessing right, we're both
interested in building fleets. I also want to convoy to the main land
to carve a piece out of Germany.

I'm curious what your tactics are so we can come to come mutually
agreeable arrangements. My original idea was to convoy into Belgium,
but this took to long and I lost the north sea, so via Denmark is
still possible.

Where do you want to position your fleets? Obviously it will be easy
for you to secure the Channel, if you wish. If that's the case, I'd
appreciate a signal of your good intentions towards my homeland.

After Germany is taken down, we will have to look to the east. Russia
and Turkey are stable and growing, so that diplomatic ties will have
to reorient after Germany is taken care of.

What do you think?
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: What do you
consider a fair division of Italy? No reason for us to fight over it
when we both have better things to do.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: Huh, didn't know
that. I should probably be reading those Diplomacy rules! :)
20 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Errrm. It's only
possible to build units in your home country, so I can only build in
Brest, Paris, and Marseilles- and since I already have an army in
Paris, I would have had only two extra possible builds even had I
taken Munich.

Anyways, I'm going to build fleets in both Marseilles and Brest.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: I realized Germany
might try to bounce Munich against an unsupported move into Berlin, so
I decided to support move. Plus if my only road into Germany is Berlin
I can't get my armies mobilized in any effective way, and I didn't
trust you to surrender a supply center next turn with three extra
builds. Your army in Tyr will be much more useful against Italy/Turkey
than in Germany. Next year you get Ruhr and Holland, I get Munich,
England gets Denmark, and Germany is dead or a vassal state.

Now you have two builds. With a fleet each in Mar and Tun you are in a
commanding position in the Mediterranean. Italy is the battleground
against Turkey, and you have more than enough units to keep him
contained.
20 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1904: I've done it-
thanks so much!
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: It might be too
late for this message to reach you. Oh well, I hope you support moved
into Belgium. Good luck!
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: ---------
Intel has to be fake. Look at rum.
20 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Agreed.
Incidentally, would you be willing to support me into Munich with the
(presumably) unused army in Silesia? If you don't, I can't take
Belgium this turn.
20 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1904: I've got no clue.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: let me guess war
with Germany is fake for Russia?
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: You have my
assist into rome.
20 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: We need to talk
soon if this is going to happen, especially about dividing Germany in
the right places. You can take Mun this turn for the build, which I
hope is a fleet in Tun or Mar. Next turn I need to get into Germany
through Munich, and long term I think that should be one of my supply
centers from the deal. You get Belgium and Holland. England gets
Sweden and Denmark. Kiel is the grab bag - I expect we will further
divide once we turn against England eventually. Germany should fall
next year, after he disbands from these losses.
20 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1904: Hmmm. I have semi-
reliable intel (from Russia) that a war between the Turkish and
Russian alliances is about to start up, so Turkey's support from
Trieste should be cut. (They told me that, if I wanted in, I should
attack next turn.)

If you support me into Rome (from Tuscany), I'll support you into
Venice from Tyrolia, and grab Belgium instead. The Rome attack will
cut the support from Rome, so you'll be able to take Venice. You
should also be able to take Naples, assuming that Italy's supporting
Venice; otherwise, you still should get Venice.

It's a bit of a gamble, but I think it ought to work. Please message
me back, so I can know whether or not to adjust my orders for this.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I understand.
Just give the the orders you would like done. That said if I double
support you you might want to support ion sea.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I understand.
Just give the the orders you would like done. That said if I double
support you you might want to support ion sea.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I understand.
Just give the the orders you would like done. That said if I double
support you you might want to support ion sea.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: I understand.
Just give the the orders you would like done. That said if I double
support you you might want to support ion sea.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: The last thing
Turkey wants is to be facing a strong presence in the south. He is
advising me to protect Munich to slow your growth. I think this would
indeed be in Turkey's interest, which, unfortunately, is in my long-
term disinterest.

I think we should carve up Germany quickly. I am working with England
in the north to take Sweden, Berlin is undefendable, Tyr-Mun S Bur-Mun
gives you a center. That gets you another fleet build in Tunis. After
Germany is gone, we will probably have to deal with an England/Turkey
alliance.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1904: I am starting to
see us increasingly as long-term allies. Specifically, you are going
to win in the south, which means you and me will ultimately face a
showdown with Turkey. Italy is a key battle ground. It is in my
interests to see you have a strong southern presence.
19 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1904: OK. If you still
want to hold on for another turn or two, I'll support you into Naples
this coming turn, but Italy/Austria will wind up defeating you
anyways- I don't have the forces in Italy to stop them. Otherwise,
would you mind supporting me into Naples?
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1904: .
FYI:
Turkey.

I will likely be supporting Venice, and I will definitely cover
Greece. If you wish to survive, plan accordingly.
19 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1904: While I am
officially allied to Italy and at war with Austria, and will likely be
supporting Italy in Venice to keep it that way for a bit, if you
wanted to support Austria into Rome or Naples (or Venice but I assume
Tyrolia is busy), this would not in any way upset the Sultan.
18 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1904: I'm still willing
to offer you a truce in exchange for Belgium.
18 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1904: I am waiting on
confirmation with Russia then will lock in.
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1904: right now moving
to ion sea.

ven will fall tri will be attacked to cut support I am sure.
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1904: Just send me
movement orders. Not logging in as much. Will enter them in the morn.
What do you want alb fleet to be used for.
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1904: Never mind,
thought that was a fleet. We're good.
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1904: What exactly are
you looking for in the South?
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: France, soon as
you're ready we can proceed to Spring 1904.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I take a nap and
general chat explodes
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I'd also note
that it sounds like next time I should probably be Gamemaster rather
than participate, since there are going to be multiple players who are
going to want me dead from the start! That turns it into a very
different game.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I understand
why you view Tuesday night the way you did, but believe me when I say
I wasn't meta gaming and I don't think anyone else was, either; I
certainly didn't think I was talking to Russia or Austria, unless you
were Russia, and I wasn't thinking about anything but the fact that it
was too good not to talk about it.

You're right that Turkey/Austria is a one-sided deal. The problem is
that Turkey ends up with the edge of the board and naturally flanks
Austria. He is safe and can't be effectively attacked, while Austria
remains vulnerable, so eventually Turkey can either get a better and
better deal and/or stab Austria for the win. That is also, of course,
why I was so eager to work with you the whole time!

The problem is that you can't choose a middle path here. If Italy/
Russia wants Turkey dead, joining them is a good plan. Pretending to
do that then joining with Turkey is also a good plan, but striking out
on your own was an invitation for them to let me join up which is what
happened. By the time you were willing to talk, it was one turn too
late to turn things around once I was confident Russia was willing to
let me script the attack and Italy was willing to support into Greece.
And frankly, the withdraw of support in Fall 1902 while I was already
on a train to New Haven and the explanation you gave said to me you
weren't prepared to think and play as a team.

Your play makes a lot more sense now; you basically saw other people
playing one way because of my identity, and didn't want to play along
which is admirable, but also saw the other option as unacceptable for
strategic reasons, and tried to take a third option where there wasn't
one. Diplomacy is not about setting up interesting alliance matchups
and then playing fair! It's about crushing the opposition like a bug
and then going to find new opposition.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Yep, Tuesday
was very sad. Over all the game has been a sour one for me.

I did not join Russia's and Italy's attack against Zvi because from
Russia's correspondence it was clear the attack would be purely
motivated on the belief that Turkey's was Zvi, a player considered to
dangerous to let live.

At the same time I did not want an alliance with Turkey. The bit of
book I read said it rarely works out for Austria. I started off the
game in a bad place. To make things worse I messed up my and moved alb
->tri instead of alb-> Greece.

Later, to my surprise after being so against Turkey, Russia rejected
my offer to align against Turkey by disbanding the fleet in Rum
instead of Gal. I was also surprised that Turkey and Italy did not
work together and take Greece the turn beforehand. I had hoped for a
Russia/Austria against Turkey/Italy that would have been victorious
yet make for an interesting game.

To top it off Tuesday night gave me way more meta-game then I ever
wanted. For me it changed the game from Diplomacy to... I don't know
what.

Germany at some point if you don't mind I would like you to send me
Russia German correspondence. I would like to know what I sound like.
Sali...@gmail.com
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: The more I think
about it, the more I think you should build a fleet in Brest.
Germany's three fleets are going to own England in fairly short order
without your help. Turkey is the long-term threat, but it will take
many turns to finish Austria and then Italy.
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Process of
elimination, but I never would have suspected either. Very
interesting.
17 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Thanks, Austria
should go down fairly quickly. I am still quite worried about Turkey,
gaining two centers this turn was a huge coup. I am surprised Italy
supported Turkey into Greece, at the cost of not defending Tunis. Are
you building a fleet in the north to hold Germany, or a fleet in the
south to take down Italy and then Turkey?
17 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Wait, so....
wait, Scott is AUSTRIA?!

Tuesday must have been awkward.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: ok
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: is that true
for anyone who takes a nap?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Eh, that failed.
I'd kill Austria for the betrayal, only you're already doing it for
me. :)

Anyways, good luck!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Forget assisting
Burgundy to Munich; I'll move Pie -> Tyr and do it myself. If you can
hold Venice next turn (w/ support from Trieste), then I'll come in and
mop up Italian resistance with you.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Yo. I'm Alex
Richard, from Atlanta.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I take a nap and
general chat explodes
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I'll let you know
if I find a tactical reason why not, but given Italy's not going to
get in the way I don't think it's necessary.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Yep, that's great.
You need any help fighting Austria?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: The thing is,
England's got me supporting a move from Yorkshire to Belgium, so if
that's blocked (presumably from Denmark), then my army in Picardy
isn't able to make any moves, and it's still three vs. two.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: And. It. Gets.
Better!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Germany) - Autumn, 1903: "Germany's
writing style was obviously Scott"

Fail! I'm the newbie, 'sceptical lurker'.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: You have my
assist into ven and assist into munic this winter.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I got you Tunis,
and the idiot is no longer useful. Italy won't be knocking on your
door again, I assure you. Couldn't risk saying what I was up to in
case you revealed to Austria. I'll ask Italy to disband the fleet,
which renders him harmless, and you can build in Brest, head off into
Tyrolia and flank Germany. Sound good?
16 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Also, to the best
of my knowledge, Austria and Turkey are now allied against Italy and
Russia. I'm trying to straddle the two groups in order to get both to
attack Germany.
16 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1903: From Yorkshire, I
assume?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: FWIW, I didn't
establish priors, but besides for Zvi being Turkey, I wasn't confident
about labeling anyone. Though, I've missed the past couple RL
meetings.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: France and
Austria, welcome to OB/LW NYC! Introduce yourselves.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: I deliberately
was trying to conceal my identity during the game, and I am curious to
know how effective it was. It had Zvi fooled at least. I was most
worried about my particular writing habits showing up. Feedback?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: <reliable
narrator voice> No. Way. In. Hell. </voice>
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: I wonder if
people will be less willing to backstab given the reveal. Knowing this
group, I doubt it...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: I agree, I am
loving this right now. :)
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: ---------
I will assume you are double supporting bur. That you are supporting
me from tyr to ven. That you are moving int tyr or tunis with fleet.
(I think try is better myself)
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: -------
When you get centers in Italy you build fleet at brest and you can
take Bel with support from England.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: pic paris support
bur. This should maintain the stale-mate for you a turn. I don't lose
all my centers and don't collapse.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Why not just
tripple support bur.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: You on for a few
min? I need to think about this.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: By the way, I
am actually laughing out loud right now. I love it. This is like a
whole new level of the puzzle! Plus it passes the tension while I wait
for the turn to trigger since I locked in everything a while ago.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I figured you
couldn't be Russia both because of how long it took you to communicate
with me, contrasted with how obsessed with the game you obviously
were, and because you clearly assumed I was Turkey, and several of
your communications didn't jive with my model of you if you thought
you were talking to me. In particular, the communications surrounding
the building of the second southern fleet.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: To actually
answer your question, Zach... I figured out Zvi almost immediately for
the reasons he posted. The first Tuesday after the game started, I had
lots of conversation with Andrew and Zvi, before I had figured out who
anyone else was for sure, and that got me to Andrew/Scott being Italy/
Germany. Once I had that figured out, Germany's writing style was
obviously Scott. Andrew's bad mood post came just a few hours after
Italy checked after the Venice backstab. Then this most recent
Tuesday, with my guesses in mind, I watched microexpressions on Andrew
and Scott, and they reacted appropriately during the discussion for
those countries respectively.

Incidentally, I dropped MANY clues about being Russia during our in-
person discussions. So many that I was shocked no one noticed!

But hey, I could still be proven wrong...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Austria: Turst?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I didn't
realize until you built the second army that it was even an option to
build a second army with the first stuck at home. It completely
transformed the game. So did Austria's typo on turn two to not get
Greece, although in that case I have no idea what happens next. First
games are like that. If we decide to play again, quality will be much
higher.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Yes the mile
high walls of text were a give away. I was surprised you did not go
turst in your writing at least at first.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: Will, same
with me. though, being water locked, I think being unfamiliar with the
rules cost me a bit more than for other nations
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: And by zero
entropy I meant maximum entropy... Christ.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Turkey says that
they're allied with you now- is that so?

Anyways, in all seriousness, I am going to be attacking Munich this
turn. If I don't take it, then he'll get Burgundy with three (?)
supports, and I'll practically collapse. I'd really, really appreciate
it if you did support me in; I'm going to have to withdraw from Italy
entirely if you don't, in order to defend Marseilles and Spain.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Zvi, I think
you underestimated how low of a priority this game was to me
(especially in the very beginning). I very nearly didn't sign up to
play at all, and I didn't learn the rules until a few turns in.
Obsession didn't take long to sink in though...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I was obvious,
if only because my analysis and my statements in-game always line up
and the writing style is hard to miss. Also, who else would write this
goddamn much?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: My priors were
zero entropy of course. Then people contacted me.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: I'm curious
how you established those priors
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: If we can get a
DM I'm fine with moving to email entirely. And wow. I had you as
Germany, but I suppose there's no reason you *couldn't* be Russia
aside from coming late to the party.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Oh, my
predictions were p~=1 that Zvi is Turkey, Andrew is Italy, Scott is
Germany.

For Zach I was p~=0.8 he was France and p~=0.2 he was England. Damn
you Zach!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: Well, you asked
for it... william...@gmail.com

HAH! :D Are you having fun yet, Zvi?

Austria makes an excellent point, my older correspondence is already
disappearing - we really should save what we have now. Looks like e-
mail is strictly superior. We could also move the game entirely over
to e-mail, but we would need someone other than Zvi to resolve the
turns, or Zvi hands over Turkey to someone else.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: -----
I won't get int ven next turn. Italy will build and block it.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: Austria, that's
not *quite* right. It purges it from the listed here to save time, but
if you click on "messages" you get the whole archive.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903:
zdk...@gmail.com
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: FYI as far as
future record keeping this site purges itself. It looks like it keeps
a certain amount of characters. I have all of my correspondence with
the UK for instance but little with Turkey.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1903: i'm convoying a
unit into Belgium. support from Pic would be greatly appreciated.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: We are
revealing, and allowing outside communication so we don't have to
check here all the goddamn time. I still suggest we all communicate
here most of the time, since it's an easy way to keep track of
everything now and for future record keeping and do it quickly, but
use email (or poke with it) when something is urgent. I want to both
keep track of everything I said and am keeping a journal of my own
thoughts, so we can go over it afterwords, and I hope many of the rest
of you are doing the same!
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: we are
revealing, as well as moving to e-mail?
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: OK, that's
everyone. I can be reached at the...@gmail.com; everyone else who
wishes to communicate in this way please share name/contact info here
so we know no one's faking.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Autumn, 1903: not dropping
out, just had a busy day yesterday (which won't be the case for the
next few weeks, at least). I vote yes as well.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: i certainly wont
interfere with your attack on germany, best of luck to you
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: If I don't hear
back I'll assume I just misread #1 and that you meant next turn, now
that I think about it. In any case, if he's willing to gift a center
to you so you can build us a unit, that's his business.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: My hat is off to
you if he did convince you of that, and I'd love to work with someone
that gullible. Guess he overcompensated for his inability to deal in
the east. Nice negotiating!
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: He told ME he was
going Tyrolia-Venice. Are you saying that's not going to happen and
he's going to support into Munich?
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1903: Ok. And fwiw,
Turkey has been floating the possibility of a 5-on-2 against Ger and
Austria. There could be a conflict of interest here, since you're anti-
I and cooperating with Austria (at least for now) but that could be a
powerful strategic alliance since Ger-Aus have 13 supply centers
between them, and that benefit none of us.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: 1: Heh. I think
that Austria agreed to support Bur -> Mun from Tyr anyways.

2: Nope, no problem. (As long as I get Tunis.)

3: I don't think he's lying, but I'm not very confident.

4: Yes, I'd switch sides. Frankly, my alliance with Austria never did
extend past the destruction of Italy and the capture of Munich.
16 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Sure, it's all
good.

And, yeah, you're right, I'll concentrate on attacking Germany this
next turn.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1903: You don't need to
actively attack Germany- I just want one support. After that, Germany
will almost certainly be too distracted to attack you. (Just as
they've stopped their offensive even with their number of units.

Or, if you're not willing to do that, at least please don't attack
Tyrolia- it's going to be the other unit supporting me into Munich,
and I might get luck and have Munich be unsupported.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Ya I probably
should not have said that. Thinking long term I did not mean it. I
meant it but only in the way that I did not want tyr to go to waist.

I think it goes more like this. If you don't support me I crumble and
Russia and Turkey get stronger and Italy gains back it's build. Italy
becomes able to mess with you while you fight Germany.

I will try to help you but yes going into Ven delays that.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Actually, Austria's
probably called off their attack. They just sent me a desperate
message offering to delay their attack on you and to support me into
Munich from Tyrolia in exchange for peace, so I assume that they won't
be attacking you.

OTOH, for obvious reasons I'd rather not attack Tyrolia while it's
supporting me. Next turn, though...
16 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Errmm.

Do you really want to tell me that if I don't support your attack,
you'll support mine? Because I'm now guaranteed not to support you, so
that you'll support me.

So yeah, now I'll attack Munich, and leave my army in Pie still so
that you can still take Venice next turn. Also, because I realize that
this is kinda a dick move on my part, I'll give you Tunis after the
Italo-German alliance is defeated. (You're closer to our next targets,
the rest of the Triple Alliance, anyways.)
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I'll be able to
hold Venice this turn unless Austria gives up a home supply center or
two to Russia. I'd be willing to support you into Tyrolia to help you
in your fight against Germany.

Friendship is for the best.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Need a
confirmation, I don't want a bounce. Rather support you into munich if
I am not getting into ven this turn.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1903: I think that, at
least for now, you should forget about Italy. He's talking a pounding
from Austria right now and will be distracted. We need to concentrate
our forced on Germany if we want to win this. Our current forces in
the region combine barely even match German firepower.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1903: sorry, had a
really busy day yesterday IRL, didn't have time to log on
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: i agree we could
be good long-term allies against both germany and turkey, but
currently it is in my interests to work with them. if either one
becomes a significant threat of course i would work with you. right
now austria is large, untrustworthy, and sitting on my back door if i
go after either germany or turkey
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: OK, that leaves
England, who I'm worried is about to slip into Civil Disorder; if he
doesn't move then I'll take that as a Yes. I'll also see what we can
do about replacing him if he's dropping out; he'll still have four
centers so the position will still be viable.
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: i vote yes
16 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: I have strong
reason to believe that Austria and Germany are also in favor; if
either of you is not, please respond here. That leaves England and
Russia.
16 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: It was a cool idea
to get your army into Venice instead of Austria's, but he's simply not
buying it and asked me to confirm this to you; he's determined for it
to be his army Tyrolia that moves in. It turns out that I can, in
fact, reason with him, but it took a triple alliance to get him
talking for real. He's going to support me into Ionian Sea and abandon
Greece. Also note that the division he agreed upon with me gives me
both Rome and Naples; if you have a problem with this, best to speak
up now while you have leverage.

My opinion of him hasn't changed. I'd appreciate your estimate of the
probability that Austria is lying his ass off, and would ask you this
as insurance: If after this deal he stabs me AGAIN, will you switch
sides in exchange for me getting Italy to hand over Tunis without a
fight?
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: tyr is attacking
ven assistance from pie would make it happen.
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Yes
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1903: I vote yes
15 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1903: You'd get a
stronger France to help you face Turkey, instead.

Also, you don't want Sweden back immediately? Germany is going to be
rather preoccupied with me and England in the short term; if I take
Munich, his first priority is going to be retaking it, not going after
you- and he'll only have 6 armies left to do it with. 5 supply centers
are directly threatened by England and I, so the only spare unit he'll
have (currently far away from you in the Ruhr anyways) will have to be
dedicated to retaking Munich, and later defending against our superior
numbers.
15 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: A general
announcement: After getting a sufficient number of affirmative votes
(5 of the 6 other players including a non-NYC player) I am revealing
my identity; yes, I am the one writing the summaries at lw-
dipl...@googlegroups.com which are open to all. When I write those
summaries I am in "reliable narrator" mode and what I say is
trustworthy, since a large part of the point of this game is to give
us a basis for analysis and building our rationalism along with our
Diplomacy skills. Anything I say as Turkey, of course, is in-game talk
so take it as you wish; if I wish to make global commentary as Turkey
I'll do it here.

I'd also like to state that I'm not alone in that this game is taking
up far more time than I would like, because of the fact that we have
to constantly check for messages and that the turns last two days. If
ALL players approve via lw-diplomacy we can take this game into e-mail
mode so it goes faster and stops destroying our lives. Not that I'm
not gaining oodles of utility out of the game on net, but the time
sink is getting silly, so I vote yes. I assure you non-NYCers that
we'd much rather be rational, make good moves and win than help our
friends.
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1903: what would i get
out of this deal? germany has clearly moved away from my flank, he
cant harm me right now, but he could easily redirect his attention my
way again. i would prefer a stronger italy to help me face turkey
later on down the road
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: In that case,
let's see how useful an idiot he really is. Tell him you're moving
Piedmont-Venice, and tell him to support it if he wants your
involvement. If he doesn't give it to you, he was never that useful.
If he does give it to you, you get your center.
15 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Hey Russia! I see
you've moved into Bohemia, and are planning to stab Austria. I don't
really care, (in fact, I'll support you actively) but I'd prefer you
delay until Austria's done with Italy, for obvious reasons. (I can't
trust Italy, nor can I afford to keep enough forces watching him.)

Instead, would you be willing to have your army in Bohemia support an
attack from Burgundy into Munich?
15 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: I could see why
you'd want to call that off.
15 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Yeah, probably.

Anyways, per Turkey, there's currently a triple alliance against you
(Russia + Turkey + Italy). I suggest that you try to surrender
unconditionally to at least one alliance partner (Turkey?), because
otherwise you're dead. I'm powerless to help you. Also, are we still
planning on attacking Munich this turn?
15 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1903: I regard Italy as
a dangerous threat, and Austria as a useful idiot, though I can see
your point of view. I'll join, but not until after Italy is destroyed.

Italy's previously lied to me about his moves, and then tried and
failed to stab me, so there's no way I can trust him. However, I then
need to keep an army in Marseilles and a fleet in Spain; otherwise,
Italy, who's obviously allied with Germany, can just stab me again.
But I can't fight a war against Germany and ward off Italy with my
current supply centers

So, in the short term, all I care about is getting one more supply
center in the Mediterranean, plus distracting Italy. Austria is more
trustworthy, if only because Germany is a much better target than me.
However, if you say he's a mad dog, then I'll indeed join you in
putting him down- right after Italy is dismantled.
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1903: You probably
thought I was going to ally with Austria when you agreed to move
south. I thought so too for a while. I apologize for not letting you
know it was otherwise, but I didn't think you could spare the fleet
since it was securing Belgium. Obviously I'm with Russia and Italy,
and here's why: Austria is basically a psychopath. He's impossible to
work with. He's lied to me outright multiple times, he's refused to
offer any support, he's thought of nothing but securing his own short
term gain at every turn. He also lied to Russia multiple times and
also passed up a solid triple alliance against me in order to pick off
Venice in a way that precluded any additional gains... then refused to
make even a half-reasonable alliance offer to me.

This man is not your friend, because he is no one's friend. If he's
offered to let you be the one to take Venice my jaw will be on the
floor. Plus, he'll be gone in a few years because none of us want to
have this psycho around. This is something you want to happen, because
once he's gone we can all move on Germany; if you want it to be this
game is a five against two. We can even get Italy to support you into
Tyrolia right away to get you a flank on Munich, and next year we can
probably spare at least one army and probably second a new army as
well. We can dismantle Italy at our leisure later, and we'll split it
down the middle. There's no need to rush into that while he's still
useful. If you complicate matters you'll likely end up forcing the
alliance into Germany's arms, and no one wants that.
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: unis = tunis
15 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: I'm guessing he
just wanted you out of mao so he could leave ec. He may think that he
can hold germany off with ns and nor. I'm not sure what he is
thinking.

unis or tyrr? I can not figure italy risking the loss of tunis. I then
could go ion.
14 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Would you please
tell me in the future when you change a move I've said I'd support?
14 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1903: Yeah, I thought
the plan was to convoy Lond -> Bel last turn; I had both Pic and Bur
supporting that move. Apparently UK decided not to, without informing
me or responding to my message 18 hours before saying that I'd be
supporting such a move unless I heard otherwise. *sigh*
14 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1903: Since you are on
good terms with the UK you should take out bel.
14 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Spring, 1903: In my orders, I'm
assuming that you're going to convoy your army in London to Belgium;
I've got two armies supporting that move. Please, tell me if that's
not so.
14 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1903: Yeah. OK. I'll
won't attack Munich this turn.
14 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1903: hey, just an idle
thought, moving mar-pie could make things very diplomatically
interesting, you have leverage on the italy/austria conflict and thus
indirectly germany
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1903: Nod, I'm told
that uk suported by sev will bounce rum. Why not just leave Rum?
------
Probably as you say misinformation. RU knows that we talk right...
13 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1903: Nope, no thanks.
13 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1903: Russia sent me
something. (There wasn't any context to it, and nothing from me really
provoked it, so it might have been passed on from Germany.) They claim
that they disbanded Rum in order to concentrate on fighting Germany,
and that the move to Galicia was originally intended to be support for
an attack on Silesia. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have just gone to
Prussia instead...
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1903: -----
Hear anything good?
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1903: i correctly
guessed germany was going to attack me and so i disbanded the southern
fleet. the plan remains to support move into silesia. i am sure
austria is not thrilled with the army in galicia, but it wont be there
long
13 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1903: Yep.
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1903: Your moving mar -
>pie right?
13 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1903: This was what I
was planing but RU disbanded Rum. How could he do that and still be on
our side? I view that disbandment as a stab.
12 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Spring, 1903: They said they
didn't know, in a message to me.

Anyways, are you going to the North Sea, or to attack Belgium
amphibiously? (So I can know whether to support you.)
12 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1903: I'd attack
Bulgaria, possibly with support from Russia. The worst that can happen
is that you get defeated, which is no different from a hold;
otherwise, if you'd been going to get pushed out anyways, then you've
got a chance at taking Bulgaria- and holding it, with either Russian
support, or help from A Bud -> Ser.

Also, Russia claims that they're with us, that they're about to attack
Germany, and that Galicia will wind up being a DMZ after they leave
it. If you don't trust them, I can delay the attack on Munich for a
turn, so you can bounce Tyrolia and Budapest off each other in Vienna.
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: Germany says RU
and Germany have an alliance?
------
I see a good probability that TU/IT team up and strip Greece from me.
-----
In your view what tactics would you suggest?
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: i have no interest
in conflict, i cant make any headway against austria, and a fleet
build in tri would allow him to swallow italy quickly. i either need
to go after germany or turkey. if i disband that tank i have no choice
but to attack turkey. if you want me to attack germany, the army
support moves into silesia next turn, and gal is dmz. germany will go
down quickly with all four of us together
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I don't know
whether you have allied with England against me, but even if you have
you can't get anywhere - you can bring two or at most three units
against me, England can bring two and I have seven. No help is coming
from Russia, we have agreed a truce- Russia is fighting Austria and
Turkey, and can't spare any units to fight me.

So either, we should have a truce, or we combine forces and split
England between us.
12 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Russia hasn't
responded yet. Germany says they have an alliance.

Against who- are Italy and Turkey allied? If it's not needed up North,
I'll send down my fleet in Mao to distract Italy.
12 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: So, I hear that
you've set up a truce with Germany in order to fight Austria (please
tell me if this isn't true). I'd like to suggest that you instead ally
with Austria against Germany; Germany is by far the bigger threat to
you, as they're demonstrably aggressive, dug in in the East, and
currently the most powerful nation, while Austria is actively seeking
a peace treaty with you (through an intermediary- me). They're
requesting that Galicia be established as a DMZ.
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: Sorry the move to
North sea bounced. I think by now Germany suspects our alliance more
then ever (no word from him yet). If I try again, it will be with
fleet support
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: -----------
Ideas on how I should handle Greece?
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: -------------
Hows it going with RU.
12 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I don't know
whether you have allied with England against me, but even if you have
you can't get anywhere - you can bring two or at most three units
against me, England can bring two and I have seven. No help is coming
from Russia, we have agreed a truce- Russia is fighting Austria and
Turkey, and can't spare any units to fight me.

So either, we should have a truce, or we combine forces and split
England between us.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: Ya I want to go
full out on IT. If I have your support I will vacate ven then re-enter
it the next turn with your help. The sea fleet plus the tank should
let me roll IT.
11 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: England and you do
something up north that stops the German advance. I take Munich,
supported by Austria, and probably lose Burgundy. England takes
Belgium, supported by me. Germany loses SC's, we gain them, we wiped
him out.

And, on a side note, would you be willing to stop attacking Austria
until the war with Germany has been resolved, and to set up Galicia as
a DMZ?
11 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Errr, I mean
against Italy. :)

I don't really care how many you commit against Germany- I just can't
afford to commit any more than two units against Italy, or for them to
take any of my Supply Centers, so I'm hoping for a fairly short war.

And, yeah, I'll get negotiating with Russia.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: -------
One thing on RU, should he not be down on unit? That happen after the
build? I thought before?
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: Three on the
German front. Probably not, I have to deal with IT. Plus how would I
fit three? I would love to DMZ with RU if he moved into sil/prussia.
If you can find a peace between me and RU that I can believe in then I
don't see you needing three units of mine.
11 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: How many forces
are you going to commit to this front? If it's at least three, then
yes; otherwise, maybe.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: england and i will
be working together. what is your plan?
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: If you go into
Pie would you be willing to help me re-take Ven if I decide on that
tactic?
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: I'm still
thinking about tactics. I am going to IT but probably not that turn. I
may be able to help you. I need to figure out my next turns though.
11 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Plotting the
destruction of Germany with England and Russia. Would you be willing
to support my attack on Munich next turn if I moved A Mar -> Pie, or
is your army in Tyrolia headed for Italy?
11 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Can you coordinate
your counterattack with England? They're definitely against Germany,
but didn't want to tip their hand too early.
11 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Hmmm.

Pity, but it doesn't matter. You can take Belgium this turn; I'll
support you from Picardy, and Burgundy if necessary; since your fleet
will then be free, you can still defend both Edinburgh and London.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: What are you
thinking?
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: Do we have a
truce?
11 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Got it, thanks.
11 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: do it
10 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Italy's just
claimed that they're going to retreat from Piedmont in order to deal
with Austria, so my southern border should be secure.

If you're moving your army to Picardy, though, then you don't get any
new supply centers anyways, and barring random luck like Germany
retreating, you can't capture Belgium as it is.

Wrt the North Sea, while that's certainly doable, it requires the F-UK-
R alliance to lose Sweden long-term, and possibly Norway as well.
(Russia, assuming that it doesn't invade Norway, can only attack
Sweden with one army, from Finland. Germany can block that attack with
its fleet, and prevent you from landing troops in Norway by attacking
from Sweden- and capture it if you don't then use your North Sea fleet
to move reinforcements there, so you'll have no naval support against
Holland, and Denmark. By keeping his fleet in Bothnia attacking
Finland, his army in Sweden attacking Norway, a fleet defending
Holland, and armies in Munich, the Ruhr, and Prussia, Germany will be
able to stalemate me, you, and Russia indefinitely with a new army or
fleet left over to attack.) That doesn't make much sense to me, when
I've got an unused fleet sitting in Mao that can be used to hold the
English Channel.
10 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1902: ok
10 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: Lets think this
through: If I move my fleet out of the Channel into the North Sea,
then my armies are landlocked for yet another round. I don't get any
new supply centers so I don't build.

I can also move my fleet out of Norway into the North sea to prevent
German occupation there.
9 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: If you're
absolutely sure you want to do that, then tell me and I'll move aside;
with that said, there are a few disadvantages to that plan. First, if
Germany moves F Bel -> Pic, then your move gets blocked. Second, I
think I may be able to convince Italy to back off, since Austria's
already attacking them. Third, that leaves you unable to reinforce
Scandinavia/attack Denmark, meaning that a stalemate will probably
result and Germany will be able to keep Sweden (so he'll have 7 supply
centers total). Fourth, that means I only have one to two offensive
outlets for my 4 armies and fleet, Burgundy and Marseilles, so Italy
can block me with its one army and Germany can block me with two-
certainly not the most efficient way to attack them. Fifth, if you do
take Belgium, then Germany can retreat its fleet to the North Sea,
threatening Norway, Edinburgh, and London; you don't have enough
armies to land one in Picardy, and leave two to defend Edinburgh and
London, plus that pins you down in Norway. That gets prevented if you
occupy the North Sea using your navy in the English Channel, and I
then occupy the English Channel.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: Here's another
idea: If you let me take Pic (temporarily, obviously) then I can more
effectively wage a land war with Germany. I'll move into Pic next
round then take over Belgium with support from my fleet. Meanwhile,
you can concentrate on kicking Germany out of Burgandy and keeping
Italy at bay.

This has two benefits: Germany won't know about our alliance until the
last possible moment, and I'll be able to get my Armies onto the
mainland that much sooner in a way that allows my fleet support
9 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Actually, do you
mind if I move my fleet to the English Channel instead, so I can
better support a land attack on Belgium?
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: How about a truce,
with Burgandy and Pic as a DMZ? I might consider that. Might.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Turkey, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Yeah, I've
contacted him.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: I need to think
this over and get back to you.. thanks for the info!
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1902: I have a peace
treaty with Austria, who is far too busy fighting Italy and Russia to
fight me too. Russia has deployed almost all his troops against Turkey
and Austria and poses little threat to me, while England is my ally.
Next turn I will have 7 supply centres, making me the largest power.

Our conflict is stalemated, and we may be able to negotiate, but you
have to stop pretending that I am in danger of imminent collapse or in
any kind of weak position whatsoever. Your hand is nowhere near strong
enough that I could agree to give up Belgium, that is just laughable.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Yeah, I'm with you.
9 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1902: If Russia
collapses, you'll get, at most, one SC: St. Petersburg, and Germany
will probably get two: Sweden and Warsaw. If Germany collapses, you
might be able to get two plus: Holland and Denmark, plus a chance at
Sweden and Kiel, and Russia will probably get 1: Berlin. So attacking
Germany is probably the better choice.

OTOH, you could delay, ally with neither this turn, make excuses, and
move F English Channel -> North Sea, which puts you in a better
position to fight against either side, since then you can land armies
in either Scandinavia, Denmark, or Holland.

PS: So we can avoid conflicts this time: I'm moving all my armies/
navies along the coast one province to the right: Mao -> Bre, Bre ->
Pic.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1902: A word of warning:
your expansionism is making you a lot of enemies. Honestly, I don't
particularly want you to collapse right now, if only because because I
wouldn't be able to grab many of your provinces.

So, I'll make you an offer: if you'll immediately withdraw from
Burgundy, and withdraw from Belgium next movement turn, I'll then halt
my advance and attack Italy instead, and you'll (hopefully) be able to
hold out against Austria, Russia, and England.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I see, thanks for
explaining.

Less facetiously, I'd suggest that you immediately withdraw from
Piedmont; if you don't, Austria and I will completely crush you. You
don't have the resources to fight a two-front war, but I'm willing to
tell Austria that I'm busy fighting Germany (ie to not attack you now)
if your next move is to retreat.
9 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: That would be very
useful, thanks.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1902: hi there! Looks my
attempts at getting onto the mainland are not going very well at all!

Two questions for you, if you feel like answering them: What do you
think Germany is up to moving back to the easter front...?

Russia is asking me to support his hold onto Sweden against a German
invasion and join up with you against Germany. It seems that Russia
needs me (and you) more than Germany does, and I'm not sure how long
it's going to be before Germany comes after me. The easy thing to do
right now is to slip into St. Petersburg to get the supply depot - but
this would obviously support Germany's invasion, but in the long term,
it might be easier to deal with Germany sooner rather than later.

Your thoughts?
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: you have two
choices, side with england or side with germany. england is clearly
the weaker player, he will be easy for you to swallow once he helps
you with germany. germany, on the other hand, if he gets rolling then
he might be unstoppable. i pointed out to england that germany is
getting two more builds, while england is behind one and unlikely to
get more soon, and with germany moving east you are going to survive a
long time. the best thing for germany is for you and england to get
tied up in war while he rapidly expands
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1902: I haven't had
occasion to talk with you yet, but I wanted to say: Well played! And
if you haven't, talk to Germany. You're in a strong position and
there's no reason you can't make a deal with him.
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: I think we are
natural allies. Need help with IT and GE?
9 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1902: looks like austria
and germany sided with turkey, which fortunately takes some pressure
off of you. i recommend that you and england join me and italy against
the three of them. if i am lost, turkey escapes and everyone loses
7 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1902: italy is being
opportunistic, the rest of his forces aren't coming after you
7 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Spring, 1902: Supposedly Austria
asked Italy to retreat from Venice. For now, I'm assuming that they're
planning to attack Marseilles with Germany.
7 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1902: No, I'm in for the
long haul.

Incidentally, did you ask Italy to move its troops out of Venice? It's
player is giving that as the reason behind A Ven -> Pie.
7 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1902: Re: Belgium: You
might want to hurry, since England is about to capture it.
Incidentally, might I ask why you've moved into Burgundy again?
7 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: England unless
you are waiting on dipl, you are not, press your ready button.
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: How serious are
you about the game. Any chance that you will quit?
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Autumn, 1901: I'm working with
Austria and he was getting upset that I had an Army next to Trieste.
Had to put him somewhere. I'll move him next turn.
6 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Hey, Italy, what's
up with A Ven->Pie?
6 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Nope- I've asked
him, but haven't gotten a response yet.
6 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Autumn, 1901: looks like england/
germany are allied against you, but england is not especially
competent. any idea what italy is doing with ven-pie?
5 Dec 2010 (To: Russia, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Yeah, hey. I'd help
you out against them, only I'm currently a bit distracted in Spain.
Maybe a few turns in the future?
5 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Unsure: their
moves are ambiguous, and we haven't had much contact. I think that
they're about to get into a fight with Germany over Belgium.
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Germany) - Autumn, 1901: That's ok - I can
probably take Belgium next turn, and I should have asked your
permission.

Germany
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: What do yo think
of england?
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: Sure, not happy
with tu/ge alliance.
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from England) - Autumn, 1901: Right now I'm more
interested in getting open supply depots than launching land wars.
4 Dec 2010 (To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Wanna devour
Germany at an unspecified later time? You can have Berlin and Munich.
4 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Re: Burgundy:

Yeah, sorry about that, assuming that you were aiming to capture
Belgium. Would you mind going through the Ruhr instead- Marseilles was
empty, so I was understandably concerned about armies in neighboring
provinces.

Thanks,
France
4 Dec 2010 (To: England, from you) - Autumn, 1901: Hiya England,

I'm wondering what you intend to do with your fleet in the English
Channel. Brest is, after all, currently a little exposed; while I'd
rather take Portugal, for now I'm going to have to keep my fleet in
Brest to defend it.

Thanks,
France
4 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1901: .....
3 Dec 2010 (To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: Hey Germany,

Wrt the Benelux nations, have you arranged anything with England?

~France
3 Dec 2010 (To: Italy, from you) - Spring, 1901: Sure- want to
declare Piedmont as a demilitarized buffer zone?

~France
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: Talk to me.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: And we have a
full game. On the repeats, I find you have to hit the Global (or
similar) button to avoid repeats.
3 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: hello over there,
just opening a line of communication. germany and turkey publicly
allied against my aggression, germany privately asked for peace.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: Sorry about
repeated messages guys... it's happening by accident when I refresh
the page.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: Is it possible
to kick/replace them?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: France is in the
house, which is good, but I don't know how to replace Russia and we
definitely can't do it before Spring 1901. I'm acting like Russia is
in Civil Disorder until we see orders or a message.
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: Is it possible
to kick/replace them?
3 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I'll take that
as a no. Shall we all agree that unless they show up this is a five
player game and carve them up accordingly?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Has anyone
received a message from either of them?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: I mean 5 on 2,
obviously.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: I mean 5 on 2,
obviously.
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: 4 on 2 alliance
against F and R if they don't move within, say, 5 hours from the end
of turn?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from England) - Spring, 1901: 4 on 2 alliance
against F and R if they don't move within, say, 5 hours from the end
of turn?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: -------
Are France and Russia playing?
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Affirmed by
Turkey. Good luck, everyone!
2 Dec 2010 (To: Global, from Germany) - Spring, 1901: Announcing
mutual defence pact between Germany and Turkey: if Russia moves or
supports a move against Germany, Denmark, the Baltic sea, Turkey,
Bulgaria or the Black sea, both Germany and Turkey will retaliate.
2 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1901: Any thoughts far
neighbor?
1 Dec 2010 (To: You, from Italy) - Spring, 1901: Hi and welcome to
the diplomacy game. I was just wondering if you saw any avenues for
mutual cooperation.

-I