Arc Fault Breaker question
Jeff Johnson
Mark Endicott
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Jeff Johnson
Jeff Johnson
Okay…
There are four 15 Amp circuit breakers (one for the master bedroom/bathroom, one for girls’ bedroom/bathroom, one for living room/front door lights, and one for the guest bedroom/hallway light and receptacle).
When the house was built, these were placed directly under the rest of the house’s breakers. Each breaker tripped at least once and the master and girls’ bedroom tripped multiple times. We called…the tech moved the breakers to the bottom of the breaker box. The master and girls’ bedroom breakers kept tripping. We called again…the tech changed the guest bedroom breaker. The master bedroom still trips a lot, and the girls’ bedroom breaker trips randomly about once a month. Another company is coming out tomorrow to take a look, so I’ll let you know what they say.
Thank you very much for thinking of us and posting this on the board. The whole neighborhood is like this by the way. I see my neighbor resetting his breakers all of the time…at least once or twice a week.
Anyway, thanks again! Talk at you later, buddy.
Brian Wagner
ground. That is make sure there is a heavy gauge copper wire running
from the panel to a 6' ground rod driven into the ground. A ground
connection to a cold water pipe is not good enough. Also double check
that the screw connections to the ground are solid.
b
Brian Wagner
went away when I replaced the old cheap dimmer switch in our dining
room. Check for that.
Pat McCarthy
The Current is probably NOT the issue here. You could be only sipping 2A of the 15A limit, but SOMETHING is causing the "trip-to-safe" condition.
For a brief intro to AFCI, take a look at the Wikipedia entry here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter
And the fact sheet, here:
Thanks,
Patrick McCarthy
-----Original Message-----
From: lv...@googlegroups.com [mailto:lv...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Wagner
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 3:06 PM
To: lv...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {LVL1} Arc Fault Breaker question
Another thought... I had a breaker tripping problem in my house that
went away when I replaced the old cheap dimmer switch in our dining
room. Check for that.
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Brian Wagner <br...@tegrasys.com> wrote:
> Not sure what is going on, but make sure your have a very solid
> ground. That is make sure there is a heavy gauge copper wire running
> from the panel to a 6' ground rod driven into the ground. A ground
> connection to a cold water pipe is not good enough. Also double check
> that the screw connections to the ground are solid.
>
> b
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Jeff Johnson <jeffj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Got this from Scott:
>>
>> Okay.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are four 15 Amp circuit breakers (one for the master bedroom/bathroom,
>> one for girls' bedroom/bathroom, one for living room/front door lights, and
>> one for the guest bedroom/hallway light and receptacle).
>>
>>
>>
>> When the house was built, these were placed directly under the rest of the
>> house's breakers. Each breaker tripped at least once and the master and
>> girls' bedroom tripped multiple times. We called.the tech moved the
>> breakers to the bottom of the breaker box. The master and girls' bedroom
>> breakers kept tripping. We called again.the tech changed the guest bedroom
>> breaker. The master bedroom still trips a lot, and the girls' bedroom
>> breaker trips randomly about once a month. Another company is coming out
>> tomorrow to take a look, so I'll let you know what they say.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much for thinking of us and posting this on the board. The
>> whole neighborhood is like this by the way. I see my neighbor resetting his
>> breakers all of the time.at least once or twice a week.
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Pat McCarthy
Interestingly, Purdue has been playing a part in the adopting of the breakers
"... Perdue urged the chairman of the Building Code Council not to roll back a requirement that arc fault circuit interrupters be used for all rooms of new homes....The council appeared ready to roll back the requirement under pressure from the homebuilding industry. Builders say the devices add hundreds of dollars to the cost of a home and can trip when devices such as ceiling fans are turned on.
Perdue says the benefits of fire prevention outweigh the drawbacks..."
So, look for items that draw an arc (anything with a motor). Whatever you find, you are probably looking at the problem device.
It will most likely cause the issue right at activation, before the field is completely developed (startup surge) when it "looks" most like an uncontrolled surge
(Good idea, Stupid breaker)
Jeff Johnson
Pat McCarthy
One thing that you could do is to have the tech replace at least the most often tripped breaker with one from Siemens...
All Siemens Combination Type AFCIs include unique Siemens exclusive and patented LED trip indicators. These indicators provide a valuable analysis tool to help electricians and home owners alike pinpoint the type of problems that cause the AFCI to trip, and therefore save valuable time during troubleshooting and repair. These indicator LEDs are located near the handle of the breaker and will distinguish arcing faults, arcing to ground and overcurrent conditions.
Here is how the trip indicators work:
The LED indications will appear for 5 seconds each time the CAFCI is turned "ON" up to 30 days after the last trip.
One LED will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault. On the 2-pole CAFCI, the leg on which the arcing fault was detected can be determined based on which single LED was illuminated.
Two LEDs on the 1-pole CAFCI device or three LEDs on the 2-pole CAFCI device will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault to ground.
No indication will be displayed if the CAFCI trips as a result of an overcurrent condition.
The last known trip indication can also be manually cleared from memory to assist with verifying resolution of the problem.
Things that are causing false readings :
Ceiling Fans
Vacuums
Heating pads
Toasters
Washers/Dryers
Christmas trees with twinkle lights
So, looks like 2 groups:
1: Motors
2. Thermostats
Good luck finding the offending item(s)
Jeff Johnson
Jeff Johnson
Pat McCarthy
Pick me up a toilet when you go next…
Thanks,
Patrick McCarthy
Aaron VerDow
small arcs from the breaker?
On Aug 29, 3:57 pm, Pat McCarthy <pmccar...@humana.com> wrote:
> Pick me up a toilet when you go next...
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick McCarthy
>
> From: lv...@googlegroups.com [mailto:lv...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Johnson
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 3:54 PM
> To: lv...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: {LVL1} Arc Fault Breaker question
>
> Well, if they are phased out here (forgive the pun), perhaps I can pick some up in Canada when I go to get my large flow toilets.
> > Not sure what is going on, but make sure your have a very solid
> > ground. That is make sure there is a heavy gauge copper wire running
> > from the panel to a 6' ground rod driven into the ground. A ground
> > connection to a cold water pipe is not good enough. Also double check
> > that the screw connections to the ground are solid.
>
> > b
>
> >> Got this from Scott:
>
> >> Okay.
>
> >> There are four 15 Amp circuit breakers (one for the master bedroom/bathroom,
> >> one for girls' bedroom/bathroom, one for living room/front door lights, and
> >> one for the guest bedroom/hallway light and receptacle).
>
> >> When the house was built, these were placed directly under the rest of the
> >> house's breakers. Each breaker tripped at least once and the master and
> >> girls' bedroom tripped multiple times. We called.the tech moved the
> >> breakers to the bottom of the breaker box. The master and girls' bedroom
> >> breakers kept tripping. We called again.the tech changed the guest bedroom
> >> breaker. The master bedroom still trips a lot, and the girls' bedroom
> >> breaker trips randomly about once a month. Another company is coming out
> >> tomorrow to take a look, so I'll let you know what they say.
>
> >> Thank you very much for thinking of us and posting this on the board. The
> >> whole neighborhood is like this by the way. I see my neighbor resetting his
> >> Anyway, thanks again! Talk at you later, buddy.
>
>
> >>> I sent Scott an email to list out the exact specifics, but in some cases
> >>> its a audio device (lulaby playing thing for babies) and then turning on a
> >>> bathroom light would set it off.
>
>
> >>>> Does it matter which devices are plugged in? There may be a short in one
> >>>> of those devices.
> >>>> Mark
>
>
> >>>>> My daughter and son-in-law's house has a weird situation that their
> >>>>> electricians cannot figure out. I thought I would run it by you guys.
> >>>>> Whenever they run 2-3 items off of a circuit in their house, the arc
> >>>>> fault breaker keeps tripping. I'm familiar with GFCI, but these are
> >>>>> different. The breakers are 15 amp and they are no where near that usage
> >>>>> when the breakers trip. They have swapped out breakers but still get the
> >>>>> problem. I offered to just switch them with regular breakers, but that will
> >>>>> void their house warranty (its a new house).
> >>>>> Any suggestions? Scott is going to run a clamp meter over the line to
> >>>>> see how much current is actually running, no results on that yet.
>
> >>>>> --
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> >> --
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> read more »
Jeff Johnson
No
Caps on ac act as short circuit
Tyler
and for some reason the remote control ceiling fan controls if they
have any of those. I had to put the darn things in my house and they
certainly are a pain.
Tyler
On Aug 29, 5:14 pm, Jeff Johnson <jeffjohn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No
> Caps on ac act as short circuit
> >> >>>>> For more info about LVL1 visitwww.lvl1.org<http://www.lvl1.org>
>
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Jamie Copeland
Jeff Johnson
Jamie Copeland
Tyler Martin
deals with the phase between voltage and current. Capacitive and
Inductive loads changes the reactance (related to phase shift) of a system.
Correct some motors have starter windings which only conduct at lower
than running RPM.
tyler