Re: {LVL1} What can be done to salvage the White Star MakerFaire demo?
Jeff Johnson
Can it be redone by sublimating dry ice with a small pc fan and heater?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bowen
Sent: Jul 13, 2011 10:57 AM
To: white-sta...@googlegroups.com, lv...@googlegroups.com, Gary Flispart
Subject: {LVL1} What can be done to salvage the White Star MakerFaire demo?
Ok folks,
The Henry Ford has informed us that they're just learning of our water usage in the White Star Demo, long after we described it in detail to and were told it was approved from the MakerFaire folks. HF has denied the use of dripping water indoors, due to their wooden floors. Rather late in the game for this I think. I'm waiting on a phone call from them to see if there's any way we can do the dripping ballast indoors.
So here are our options as I can see at this point:The demo needs to look like a free-floating balloon controlling it's own altitude (with some vertical guide rod/cable to prevent drifting away). Why? The farther we get from that clear visual balloon flight action, the less novel it becomes to the passerby, and the less value it has in demonstrating the coolest part about the real balloon flight will work (our mastery of altitude control).
- Cancel the demo and just set the payload on the table.
- Negotiate flying indoors with modifications to liquid ballast dispensing / drip capture
- Finish the build ASAP, buy helium, set up a giant rig outdoors to try to disprove predicted devastating effects of wind* on the delicate control of buoyancy at low altitude
- Modify ballast system to use non-liquid fine-grained flowing material for ballast
Your thoughts are requested for serious, cheap, safe and very low man-hour solutions. (please read the footnote below before suggesting any outdoor solutions)
Dan
Footnote:
* When air flows around all sides of any object in the real atmosphere, the shape of the object causes aerodynamic lift and drag. This 'lift' can be in any direction perpendicular to the wind, i.e. up, left, right, or down. Any direction of lift or drag other than perfectly horizontal will cause the balloon to move up or down, easily overcoming the very very weak neutral buoyancy that the ballast system works to create. This is why an outdoor demo would likely look like the balloon randomly banging up and down with no obvious control. This is not a problem at altitude, as the balloon will average the same altitude over a long period of time. It can vary more than a hundred feet in altitude due to this effect while neutrally buoyant at altitude. It is possible that we could create a rapid enough helium leak to overcome this, however that will be limited by the maximum continuous flow of ballast to be able to counteract the helium, which really would need to be explored in a cable-guided demo flight.
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Jeff Johnson
-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Cprek <paxti...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 13, 2011 1:07 PM
>To: lv...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: {LVL1} What can be done to salvage the White Star MakerFaire demo?
>
>glitter?
>
>/Chris
>Micro Colonel LVL1
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:48 PM, DE 'Tad' Heckaman III
><doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/25-lbs-80-grit-glass-bead-blast-media-46426.html
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Mark Endicott <drph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Porter Paints has a plant locally. They might donate some for free
>>> publicity.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:27, Dan Bowen <stea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Perhaps fine spherical glass beads like they use for reflective paint
>>> would be valvable with no change in our valve system. Anyone know a source
>>> for such things?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Brian Wagner <br...@tegrasys.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> rice?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Ben Hibben <the.bl...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > BB's might be cheap and reliable as ballast; they're less likely to
>>>> > clog the
>>>> > release valve than sand.
>>>> >
>>>> > Blenster
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Endicott <drph...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How much horizontal travel will the balloon have? If it's minimal you
>>>> >> could drop coins, marbles or bbs and catch them in a trough below. The
>>>> >> sound
>>>> >> of the solid ballast hitting the collection container would also add
>>>> >> am
>>>> >> appealing element.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >> On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:05, James Copeland <copelan...@gmail.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was thinking number 4 before I got down to read it. Sand? but just
>>>> >> wondering what could open/close that without getting grains caught in
>>>> >> the apparatus to keep it from fully closing.. ??
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Some type of ballast "sack" that could be reeled in and out (to the
>>>> >> ground) as a very basic method? (more complex than worrying about I
>>>> >> guess)..
>>>> >> wouldnt give you fine grained control.. but could illustrate a change
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> weight..
>> --
>> Tad Heckaman
Jeff Johnson
From: Dan Bowen
Sent: Jul 13, 2011 1:16 PM
To: lv...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {LVL1} What can be done to salvage the White Star MakerFaire demo?
Regarding different materials for ballast:
Any ballast material larger than about 0.2mm (two tenths of a mm) will require an entirely new ballast dispensing system to be built, and calibrated for flow rate.
We need to be able to repeatably release very small amounts of weight at a time, not more than 1 gram increments. We hardly had time to build the current planned demo and test it, so please let us know if you know someone willing and able to build a new ballast metering device for any proposed new ballast materials.
Thanks,
DanOn Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Jon Clark <jo...@leettech.net> wrote:I think the bb's, glass beads, rice, etc would be great, possibly
even a better "visual" then the water. Having the BB's or Beads fall
just seems like a much easier way for the spectater to visualize the
amount being released. Also if they were brightly colored BB's would
that make the amount left in the ballast easier to see from a
distance? .
On Jul 13, 12:48 pm, "DE 'Tad' Heckaman III" <dougl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/25-lbs-80-grit-glass-bead-blast-media-46...
> >> >> On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:05, James Copeland <<copeland.jam...@gmail.com>
> >> copeland.jam...@gmail.com>
> >> >>> <lvl1%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> lvl1+uns...@googlegroups.com
> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >> >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en>
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
> >> >>> For more info about LVL1 visit <http://www.lvl1.org>www.lvl1.org
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> >> Groups "LVL1 - Louisville's MakerSpace" group.
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> >> >> For more options, visit this group at
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
> >> >> For more info about LVL1 visit <http://www.lvl1.org>www.lvl1.org
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
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>
> >> > --
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> >> > For more options, visit this group at
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
> >> > For more info about LVL1 visit <http://www.lvl1.org>www.lvl1.org
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "LVL1 - Louisville's MakerSpace" group.
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> >> For more options, visit this group at
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
> >> For more info about LVL1 visit <http://www.lvl1.org>www.lvl1.org
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > For more options, visit this group at
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> >http://groups.google.com/group/lvl1?hl=en
> > For more info about LVL1 visit <http://www.lvl1.org>www.lvl1.org
>> > For more info about LVL1 visitwww.lvl1.org
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
> --
> Tad Heckaman
--
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Jeff Johnson
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Wagner <br...@tegrasys.com>
>Sent: Jul 13, 2011 1:24 PM
>To: lv...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: {LVL1} What can be done to salvage the White Star MakerFaire demo?
>
>Drip polyurethane so you can refinish the wood floors at the same time.
>
>On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Christopher Cprek <paxti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> glitter?
>>
>> /Chris
>> Micro Colonel LVL1
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:48 PM, DE 'Tad' Heckaman III
>> <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/25-lbs-80-grit-glass-bead-blast-media-46426.html
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Mark Endicott <drph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Porter Paints has a plant locally. They might donate some for free
>>>> publicity.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:27, Dan Bowen <stea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps fine spherical glass beads like they use for reflective paint
>>>> would be valvable with no change in our valve system. Anyone know a source
>>>> for such things?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Brian Wagner <br...@tegrasys.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> rice?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Ben Hibben <the.bl...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > BB's might be cheap and reliable as ballast; they're less likely to
>>>>> > clog the
>>>>> > release valve than sand.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Blenster
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Endicott <drph...@gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> How much horizontal travel will the balloon have? If it's minimal you
>>>>> >> could drop coins, marbles or bbs and catch them in a trough below. The
>>>>> >> sound
>>>>> >> of the solid ballast hitting the collection container would also add
>>>>> >> am
>>>>> >> appealing element.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >> On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:05, James Copeland <copelan...@gmail.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I was thinking number 4 before I got down to read it. Sand? but just
>>>>> >> wondering what could open/close that without getting grains caught in
>>>>> >> the apparatus to keep it from fully closing.. ??
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Some type of ballast "sack" that could be reeled in and out (to the
>>>>> >> ground) as a very basic method? (more complex than worrying about I
>>>>> >> guess)..
>>>>> >> wouldnt give you fine grained control.. but could illustrate a change
>>>>> >> in
>>>>> >> weight..
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Dan Bowen <stea...@gmail.com>
Christopher Cprek
all the way down to a collection basin by the White Star table?
/Chris
Micro Colonel LVL1
Pat McCarthy
There's a problem though
As you descend, more of the hose is on the floor (balloon is "lighter"), the reverse is true on ascent... effectively acting as a "buffer" (may be enough to overcome any ballast effects... just end up with pretty much a static balloon, slowly dripping with no apparent motion...) In any case, this may give the Ballast controller fits :)
Thanks,
Patrick McCarthy
Testing Automation Consultant
Software Quality Management Office(SQMO)
Humana, Insurance Inc.
(502)476-9878 - w
(502)939-1756 - c
/Chris
Micro Colonel LVL1
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information.
Jeff Johnson
-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Cprek <paxti...@gmail.com>
Dan Bowen
Pat McCarthy
Still say that, If they dislike water on their teak, they sure as heck will not want Sand blasting grit/sand/glass beads underfoot, scratching the #$#(* out of the finish
Thanks,
Patrick McCarthy
Testing Automation Consultant
Software Quality Management Office(SQMO)
Humana, Insurance Inc.
(502)476-9878 - w
(502)939-1756 - c
Pat McCarthy
A possible source (Honest… in the stained glass section) Hobby Lobby
Thanks,
Patrick McCarthy
Testing Automation Consultant
Software Quality Management Office(SQMO)
Humana, Insurance Inc.
(502)476-9878 - w
(502)939-1756 - c
Jeff Johnson
Brian Wagner
what about small beads for making necklaces at Michaels?
Dan Bowen
Pat McCarthy
Oh… If you get the beads, I’m curious… How well do they bounce? .. the low impact plastic ones bounce all over the place… not sure how the smaller glass ones react…