DIY Fence Post question

[bruce]

Hi.

Most articles discuss placing a 8′ 4″x4″ fence post in a 2′ hole with
concrete. This implies you can dig that deep.

What happens when you can only go 12–18″ deep? (There might be an
underlying terra cotta pipe from the olden days!) All of this will
have to be hand dug to remove the possibility of damaging anything
already there.

Would it be sufficient to dig say 12″ but to enlarge the size of the
hole to build a larger base/mass of concrete in the ground?

Thoughts/comments…

thanks

[Larry Richardson]

No.  the depth is related to frost line/frost heave . 18" is the MINIMUM I'd put a post that is supporting say a privacy fence panel. 

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[bruce]

thanks!

but... can you treat me like a six year old!! (old movie quote). Is
the frost issue related to the concrete, the post in the concrete? the
ability for the concrete expanding/contracting within the soil during
potential freezing?

Again, sites that I've see discussing this, don't get into exactly why
the depth is a good thing!

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[Jim Dallam]

Google is your friend, type this and see many links “frost heave and fence posts”

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 4:29 PM, bruce <bado...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> thanks!

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[bruce]

ahh..

so all of this is really about the "ground" moving (moisture
content/water) when freezing/thawing/etc... in a vertical plane..

cmon climate change!!

thanks

"frost heave!"

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[Matt B.]

Needed to know this myself soon!

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[Greg Miller]

Yea, the 24" is the frost line around here, there's a page on noaa.gov somewhere where you can look up the frost line for other places.  The good news is there shouldn't be any water carrying pipes less deep than that, and they're supposed to be covered with gravel so you know you're getting close to something.  You can use a probe to test for any solid objects and move the location of the posts accordingly.  You'll want to call and have the utilities marked (it's actually a legal requirement here in Indiana).  You'll probably need a permit too, and part of that permit will probably be having the holes inspected.  When I had the utilities marked for my fence, the building inspector actually called me, and walked me through what was needed for the permit.  Of course, when I actually started building the fence, he also came and put a "stop work" notice on my door, even though the permit was displayed in the window.  So they're also pretty aggressive about enforcing the permits too, even if you have one.

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[bruce]

Hey Matt!!

Needed to find some sort of "rod" to poke in the ground to get a feel
for how deep the old sewage terra cotta pipes might be. Discovered in
a scrap area of an Ace Hardware, some "garden" looking thin solid
plastic rods/poles ~3/8". For less than a buck, discovered I can go
down at least 18-2" with no issue. So hand digging should suffice!

Now to figure parts list. (And pray the guy for the tree issue, will
honor his price!)

I'm thinking a vertical picket, with a capped top, and possibly trellis.

https://www.woodshopdiaries.com/how-to-build-a-diy-privacy-fence/

perhaps something similar to this.. except I'll need back/front gate

Since I'll have neighbors, I'm also thinking of having the pickets
"inside" the 2x4 by post areas.. I might create a trimmed 2x2 strip
along both sides of the area, and have the pickets attached to it...

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[Greg Miller]

FYI, on my permit it specifically stated the pickets had to go on the outside.

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[bruce]

I've seen that. And some have said pickets on outside if the fence is
facing alley/street... But to be honest, a wall of pickets facing
someone's yard... from an aesthetic view.. ain't that great!

I was thinking shadow box.. I'm still working it out..

Oh, if you're looking to do this yourself, I've found that the big box
might give you a discount if you go through the pro services,
depending on how large the order is.

-bruce

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[Larry Richardson]

Ok. Like a 6yo. "Because I said so" lol. Like a teen "if you do this , it will cause the sun to explode ". Like an adult :" you could come out and your entire fence falls over , and lands on your neighbors dog killing it and the 7 unborn pups. ".

Choose wisely


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 8:09 PM, bruce <bado...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've seen that. And some have said pickets on outside if the fence is

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[bruce]

lol!!

freeze heave..  something new.  but I was able to put a thin rod in a couple of spots to 18-24"  so it should be ok.  didn't feel any potential pushback from the pipe. 

thanks.

ps.  this area of the fence would be ~30ft..  so it would need to be built with a solid footing.  the rest would be 2' with no issue.

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[Matt Schutz]

I may be ignorant about terra Cotta tiles, but aren't they relatively soft? If so, and you're relatively sure there's nothing else down there, I would 1000% recommend renting a one man auger from (yuck) Home Depot for 4 hours. So worth it. If this is within maybe 6' of your foundation I wouldn't do that though.

[Larry Richardson]

There is an older type of drainage "pipe" that is made from tile. This is most likely what it is , based on other questions Bruce has asked (age of home)

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2024, at 7:52 AM, Matt Schutz <matt....@gmail.com> wrote:

I may be ignorant about terra Cotta tiles, but aren't they relatively soft? If so, and you're relatively sure there's nothing else down there, I would 1000% recommend renting a one man auger from (yuck) Home Depot for 4 hours. So worth it. If this is within maybe 6' of your foundation I wouldn't do that though.

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[bruce]

Hi/Hey.

Right you are (I think). It's the burnt orange pipe. As far as I can
tell, it used to be wide spread, but it's been replaced by other
materials over time. But hey, West End of the city, beggars can't be
choosy! Should be glad they actually put plumbing in when they did!

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