3d Building Paper

[Colette]

Interestinglymy 1913 house was built with red rosin paper underneath the cedar shingle siding. I've had to repair or replace shingles here and there, and when I've stripped off the old shingles the rosin paper underneath actually still looked pretty good (at least, pretty good for 90 year old paper.) I did put down 15lb felt under my repairs.

Local BI's require Tyvec or similar. You can read the local code to them all day, but they don't consider #15 roofing felt = "equivalent". I put up the felt and window/door flashing first, then "gift wrap" it with Tyvec (under flashing, of course).

The issue of tyvek under cedar has been a big bone of contention around here for a while. People line up on both sides. Arguments go for weeks. Some of these folks get their shotguns out and the whole nine yards. LOL. Last I heard, someone researched the Cedar Association or some such group, and they said there was no damage to tyvek from their wood.

Don, I built a large two story home in 1990 for a friend of mine. It was sided with W.R. Cedar beveled siding over Tyvek. Last summer, I put an addition on the home and tore off a large area of the siding. The Tyvek was basically turned to little, brittle flakes and just fell off in small pieces as we were removing the siding.

That was enough proof for me. Maybe they have improved the Tyvek composition since then?? I don't know, but I would never install it under cedar siding again. I would use one of the reinforced tarpaper type materials under cedar.

This was on the south side of the house in the direct sunlight. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?? The Tyvek was never exposed to the sun for more than a few days when we were building the home.

I found that walls we stripped on an addition that was, according to the homeowner, about 8 years old, had yellowed and the Tyvek was crumbling. Then I realized the Tyvek I thought was proper for a house wrap, to that point in time, had a warning not to leave exposed for more than 30 days. Then I switched to Typar which was recommended for exposure over 30 days- but I thought, what's the point- that's the whole idea in the first place. The water jacket must provide weather resistance over a building's life, not a few months. Tarred paper has always done that- sometimes the original idea should be left alone.

Anyone that thinks the tar paper is an additional moisture barrior should look at it on a roof uncovered in the morning- it obviously can accept moisture (disstort in shape from the expansion after taking on the moisture of the dew) then give it off as the temperature warms as the sun gives off heat to it.

Strikes me that what i call building paper - ie 30 minute tarpaper - means something different to others. If you mean that, well, that's what it's for... so go ahead. 15# gets a little unmanageable off a ladder around openings, so if you want to be safer with tarpaper use 2 layers.

Use 30lb felt, this equal to the old 15lb on the walls now. Like others I call building paper felt and vice versa. I also have seen red posin paper under cedar shingles, I would use felt ,rosin paper is for floors.

How are you attaching your siding? Are you running vertical strapping at stud locations and fastening to the studs? If that's the case I'd probably go with housewrap over paper, only because I think it will hold its shape better over time with such infrequent fastening. I'm assuming you'd run the housewrap over the foam and then hold it in place with the strapping.

I'm worried that the paper may no longer be as waterproof as it should.

Re-papering the entire house seems like a large task, but having a home

that leaks would be much worse. Is this something I need to worry

about, or can the paper take this much exposure?

That's an awfully long time to be exposed. The paper has certainly

started to deteriorate. I can't give you a definitive answer as I've

never worked on a building that had paper exposed for that long.

Repapering isn't a huge job unless the chicken wire is already in

place.R

Ideally I'd like to see a spec from a manufacturer that states the

maximum allowable exposure time for the paper, but I haven't found

anything. The exterior of the paper does have that dry and faded look

though.

The contractor installed the wire to help keep the paper from blowing

off in the wind. Not a bad practice in general, but 6 months is a long

time for it to be exposed. If he hadn't put the wire in place, laying

on a second layer of building paper wouldn't have taken very long - the

stuff goes up very quickly, and he probably wouldn't have had to redo

the flashings around the windows and doors.Who caused the delay? That's going to be of paramount importance in

any negotiation to redo the building paper, and will determine who will

pay for the work and materials.

> Ideally I'd like to see a spec from a manufacturer that states the

> maximum allowable exposure time for the paper, but I haven't found

> anything. The exterior of the paper does have that dry and faded look

> though.

's not specific in its language at all - it just says the paper is

to be covered as soon as possible. You may want to contact several

manufacturers and see if you can get some more detailed info on

acceptable exposure limits. If you can't determine whose paper is on

your house, just call some of the local lumberyards and home centers

and see what brands they carry and contact them.R

Not to sound flip, but if he's stapled chicken wire directly to a

single layer of Tyvek (or similar building paper) with stucco to be

directly applied over this, who cares what state the paper is in? The

surficants in the concrete will cause even new Tyvek to loose it's

water repelancy. And this is true for the so-called "stucco wrap"

wrinkly varieties as well. At that point any water that soaks through

the stucco or gets by bad flashings will be held against the plywood

with no way to escape. The data is in on this one. Visit the Building

Science Corp. website if you want more info. Stucco in the old days relied on two layers of felt. As the

concrete dried, it shrank just enough to pull the outer layer away from

the inner, creating a drainage plane. Couple the newer stucco

techniques with the generally sloppy or missing flashings that get

thrown up (pun intended) and rot/mold are almost inevitable. Looking

at the stucco jobs in our area, I'll bet about 98% are done

incorrectly. Most subs will tell you that's the way they always do it.

The fact is most people aren't willing to pay to have it done well.

Nine out of ten times they probably get by without major problems. We just applied 1300sf of stucco siding to the lower 3ft of our

new house. I worked with our mason to arrive at a system to create a

real drainiage plane. We applied a layer of Tyvek, a 1/4in layer of

EnkaMat, another layer of Tyvek, followed by explanded metal lath (in

place of chicken wire). The outer layer of Tyvek basically just acts

to keep the stucco from getting into the EnkaMat. This created a 1/4in

air gap behind the stucco, which was flashed at the bottom to kick out

any water. We expect this work to last 100yrs without problems. Some on the list, pointed out we could have used self-furing lath

instead of the EnkaMat. This would have saved a bit of labor and still

resutled in a decent drainage plane (assuming it was applied over a sub

layer of Tyvek or felt). The material costs of either system would be

similar. Nonetheless, our system was easy enough to apply and created

a very good drainage plane.Richard Johnson PE

Camano Island, WA

All-in-all the UV probably won't hurt it, neither will rail or snow

(although it may look a little weathered.) What hurts it is physical

movement (blowing in the wind and that sort of thing.)Here a link to a laboratory that makes the stuff and they also feel that it

will hold up to the elements for years w/o problems. You should be OK.

_paper_faq.html

This information is consistent with the link that Dennis provided. The

faq says that 2 layers of paper are better if there is extended

exposure and that simply having a weathered look isn't detrimental.

Both of these are true in our case.Recently, there have been heavy rainstorms and a couple of leaks

appeared, but none because of the paper. One was due to a huge pool of

water next to the basement and another because water leaked from roof

to wall because there was no drain pipe.Thanks for the advice and feedback. Hopefully this thread will provide

some guidance to others who run into a very slow contractor.

To begin, I selected three dark cardstock backgrounds. I started die-cutting the letters, sentiments, florals, and foliage from a variety of cardstock colors. Usually, I decide my colors ahead of time, rather than take this more playful approach. After placing the die-cut pieces on the dark-colored backgrounds, I eliminated colors that did not work.

With a variety of flowers and foliage on the backgrounds, I decided which items would be in which colors. I began building paper bouquets, without adhering anything. Like a floral bouquet, I used the largest shapes as the focal and supporting flowers, foliage pieces for structure, and the airy accents as delicate details.

The weather-resistant envelope under siding performs three important roles. In the first instance, it protects the building interior during construction and cladding renewal. When the job is complete it insulates the home although the family inside may be unaware of that. Finally, it acts as a moisture barrier if a storm damages the siding covering it. Hence, the right choice of envelope materials is a major decision point.

Building Paper is saturated with waterproofing asphalt. Asphalt has been around for a century, and we also use it on pavements and roofs. It prevents wind from reaching the rooms inside, while being last-resort waterproofing under the cladding.

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