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freebsd-stable Digest, Vol 351, Issue 4

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Apr 7, 2010, 8:00:27 AM4/7/10

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: CPU problems after 8.0-STABLE update (Andriy Gapon)
2. Re: CPU problems after 8.0-STABLE update (Attilio Rao)
3. Re: FreeBSD 7.3/i386 libalias related panic (Peter Jeremy)
4. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Chuck Swiger)
5. xen vps issue loading disk? (Henrik Hudson)
6. HEADS UP: COMPAT_IA32 renamed COMPAT_FREEBSD32 (Nathan Whitehorn)
7. Looking for Supermicro distributors (Jeremy Chadwick)
8. 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass (Mikhail T.)
9. Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass (Jeremy Chadwick)
10. Re: Looking for Supermicro distributors (Sam Fourman Jr.)
11. Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass (Mikhail T.)
12. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Aristedes Maniatis)
13. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Andriy Gapon)
14. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Joshua Boyd)
15. Re: Looking for Supermicro distributors (Bill Campbell)
16. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Aristedes Maniatis)
17. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Matthew Seaman)
18. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Paul Procacci)
19. Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd (Alban Hertroys)
20. Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass (Julian H. Stacey)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:02:29 +0300
From: Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua>
Subject: Re: CPU problems after 8.0-STABLE update
To: Akephalos Akephalos <akephalos...@gmail.com>
Cc: Attilio Rao <att...@freebsd.org>, freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <4BBB22D5...@icyb.net.ua>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

on 06/04/2010 14:50 Akephalos Akephalos said the following:
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Attilio Rao <att...@freebsd.org
> <mailto:att...@freebsd.org>> wrote:
>
> What architecture is it?
> May you try setting machdep.lapic_allclocks to 1 in /boot/loader.conf?
> May you report #dmesg | grep atrtc
>
>
> Thanks,
> Attilio
>
>
> --
> Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein
>
>
> # dmesg | grep -B 5 -A 5 -i rtc
> acpi_button0: <Sleep Button> on acpi0
> acpi_button1: <Power Button> on acpi0
> acpi_tz0: <Thermal Zone> on acpi0
> battery0: <ACPI Control Method Battery> on acpi0
> acpi_acad0: <AC Adapter> on acpi0
> atrtc0: <AT realtime clock> port 0x70-0x71 irq 8 on acpi0
> atkbdc0: <Keyboard controller (i8042)> port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0
> atkbd0: <AT Keyboard> irq 1 on atkbdc0
> kbd0 at atkbd0
> atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED]
> atkbd0: [ITHREAD]
> ---

Is this before or after setting machdep.lapic_allclocks?
If after, could you please check what happens without the change?

> I set machdep.lapic_allclocks to 1 at statup - top works now!! I can see
> both processors with top -P, btw, everything looks fine, although I get
> core dump for xfce4-taskmanager and can't test it (it's probably related
> to something else).
> ---
>
> I started powerd - it scales the frequencies correctly now.
>
> This seems to be the solution, is this a bug should I report or leave
> things like this?

Bug report never hurts :-)
Could you please tell us what system us this (motherboard model)?
Also, could you post output of acpidump -dt?
Thanks!

--
Andriy Gapon

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:51:47 +0200
From: Attilio Rao <att...@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: CPU problems after 8.0-STABLE update
To: Akephalos Akephalos <akephalos...@gmail.com>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua>
Message-ID:
<y2q3bbf2fe11004060551i9...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

2010/4/6 Akephalos Akephalos <akephalos...@gmail.com>:
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Attilio Rao <att...@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>
>> What architecture is it?
>> May you try setting machdep.lapic_allclocks to 1 in /boot/loader.conf?
>> May you report #dmesg | grep atrtc
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Attilio
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein
>
> # dmesg | grep -B 5 -A 5 -i rtc
> acpi_button0: <Sleep Button> on acpi0
> acpi_button1: <Power Button> on acpi0
> acpi_tz0: <Thermal Zone> on acpi0
> battery0: <ACPI Control Method Battery> on acpi0
> acpi_acad0: <AC Adapter> on acpi0
> atrtc0: <AT realtime clock> port 0x70-0x71 irq 8 on acpi0
> atkbdc0: <Keyboard controller (i8042)> port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0
> atkbd0: <AT Keyboard> irq 1 on atkbdc0
> kbd0 at atkbd0
> atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED]
> atkbd0: [ITHREAD]
> ---
>
> I set machdep.lapic_allclocks to 1 at statup - top works now!! I can see
> both processors with top -P, btw, everything looks fine, although I get core
> dump for xfce4-taskmanager and can't test it (it's probably related to
> something else).
> ---
>
> I started powerd - it scales the frequencies correctly now.
>
> This seems to be the solution, is this a bug should I report or leave things
> like this?

Uhm, may you tell me which revision did you update to? May you update
to the latest now, recompile your kernel, remove the hint
machdep.lapic_allclocks and report if it works or not?

Thanks,
Attilio

--
Peace can only be achieved by understanding - A. Einstein

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 05:24:52 +1000
From: Peter Jeremy <peter...@acm.org>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.3/i386 libalias related panic
To: Artem Kim <arte...@inbox.ru>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20100406192...@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On 2010-Apr-06 00:37:51 +0400, Artem Kim <arte...@inbox.ru> wrote:
>Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
>cpuid = 1; apic id = 01
>fault virtual address = 0x7d4c

This suggests an offset from a NULL pointer.

>0x8069ac41 is in DeleteLink (/usr/src/sys/netinet/libalias/alias_db.c:857).
>852 {
>853 struct libalias *la = lnk->la;
>854
>855 LIBALIAS_LOCK_ASSERT(la);
>856 /* Don't do anything if the link is marked permanent */
>857 if (la->deleteAllLinks == 0 && lnk->flags & LINK_PERMANENT)
>858 return;

>(kgdb) bt
>#7 0x8069ac41 in DeleteLink (lnk=0x84e0f980) at /usr/src/sys/netinet/libalias/alias_db.c:853
>#8 0x8069ae3e in HouseKeeping (la=0x84874000) at /usr/src/sys/netinet/libalias/alias_db.c:843

In the absence of someone who's seen this before, my initial guess is
that lnk->la is corrupted in frame #7. I'd start with 'print *lnk' at
frame #7 to confirm this. If so, you could go up to frame #8 and work
through the linkTableOut chain to find which entry is corrupt - but
actually finding _why_ it's corrupt will take a lot more work.

If this is repeatable, I'd suggest adding WITNESS, WITNESS_SKIPSPIN
and INVARIANTS and see if you can get the problem to show up closer
to its cause.

--
Peter Jeremy
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:26:29 -0700
From: Chuck Swiger <csw...@mac.com>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Maciej Jan Broniarz <gau...@gausus.net>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <0A88DAC9-DCDC-49A0...@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Apr 5, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Maciej Jan Broniarz wrote:
> W dniu 10-04-05 22:43, jfa...@goldsword.com pisze:
>> Quoting Maciej Jan Broniarz <gau...@gausus.net>:
>> So first you have to define your workload, then define what errors you
>> must avoid or allow, and then define how to deal with failures, errors,
>> etc.
>> Then you can start talking about High Availability vs. level of Fault
>> tolerance, vs. ....
>
> Let's say i need to run a few php/sql based web sites and I would like to maintain uptime of about 99,99% per month. No matter how good the hardware - it will always fail at some time. My goal is to build a system, that can maintain that uptime.

You're attempting to move from ~1 hour of downtime per month to ~1 hour of downtime per year, or less than 5 minutes per month. To begin with, you must implement adequate monitoring to detect, notify, and track service outages (ie, Nagios, BigBrother, commercial test services like SiteScope, etc), and you need a 24/7/365 team available to immediately respond to pages/email/etc to minimize outage duration.

With 168 hours a week divided by nominal 40-hour workweek, that needs a team of 4.2 people, and also implies the cost of downtime per hour for the system should be higher than about 35K per hour to justify keeping such a team available. (Four people can do it with one working an extra 8-hour shift per week; however, at least local to me, California state law mandates that people on call for pager duty must be paid hourly overtime if they are expected to respond to issues.)

> From what You say I need some level of HA system, to maintain the required uptime.
>
> So, as I've said earlier (correct me, if I'm wrong) - the setup could look something like that:
>
> - 2 web servers with carp
> - 2 storage servers with on-line sync mechanism running
> - 2 mysql servers with on-line database replication
>
> (i'm skiping power and network issues at the moment).

Do you already know what your causes of downtime have been?

To my mind, you must consider all parts of the system, gather data, and resolve the problems which have the greatest downtime cost in a cost-effective fashion. The most common sources of machine failure are hard drives and PSUs; setting up RAID-1 mirrors for all machines and getting redundant power supplies on separate breakers should be a minimal starting point to avoid a likely single point of failure within a single machine.

Beyond that, the suggestion to have at least two of every component of the system is a right notion, but you need to include the glue which implements failover. That can be RFC-2391 style NAT to round-robin requests onto multiple webservers, but a hardware-based load-balancer (ServerIrons, Netscalers, etc) with aliveness or health checks will do a better job.

The better ones also support full redundancy, so you want a pair of those, or perhaps a pair of router/firewall/NAT boxes using VRRP or similar for the networking connectivity if you want to use software-based load-balancing.

Of course, all of this is assuming that the software is more reliable than the hardware it runs on. Good software can be, but it's more common for software failures, mistakes by admins, or the like to also contribute a lot to the system downtime.

Regards,
--
-Chuck

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 13:40:32 -0800
From: Henrik Hudson <li...@rhavenn.net>
Subject: xen vps issue loading disk?
To: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <2010040621...@alucard.int.rhavenn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hey Stable,

I recently setup a Xen VPS running FreeBSD and the system came with
8.0-REL-p2 on it. I rebuilt world and then kernel using a 100%
stock GENERIC i386. after installkernel and reboot the system
stops at "trying to load disk: /dev/ad0s1a" (or similar; i forget
the exact device node at the moment). I'm able to reset and boot
kernel.old fine.

Did I miss something or is there a regression somewhere?

Henrik
--
Henrik Hudson
li...@rhavenn.net
-----------------------------------------
"God, root, what is difference?" Pitr; UF

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 21:29:24 -0500
From: Nathan Whitehorn <nwhit...@freebsd.org>
Subject: HEADS UP: COMPAT_IA32 renamed COMPAT_FREEBSD32
To: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <4BBBEE04...@freebsd.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Starting with revision 206336, the kernel option COMPAT_IA32, used for
compatibility with i386 binaries on amd64 and ia64 systems, has been
renamed to COMPAT_FREEBSD32, in analogy to COMPAT_LINUX32. This follows
the same change in HEAD a month ago. As such, all kernel configurations
with this option need to be updated when updating to 8-STABLE past this
revision.

This change allows MFCs of recent improvements to the 32-bit
compatibility after the addition of 32-bit compatibility for non-x86
platform in -CURRENT.
-Nathan

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:36:35 -0700
From: Jeremy Chadwick <fre...@jdc.parodius.com>
Subject: Looking for Supermicro distributors
To: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Cc: freebsd-...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20100407033...@icarus.home.lan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi!

First off, sorry for cross-posting, but in this case I need somewhat of
a broader audience. This is the first time I've ever asked for
something like this, so I'm a bit shy. If end-users have other ideas
on how I can go about this, I'm all ears.

I'm looking for any Supermicro hardware distributors that linger on the
mailing lists here. I know I've talked at least two of you in the past,
so I'm certain you're out there, but I've lost your names/Email
addresses.

Simple version: I need hardware, or access to systems running hardware,
for me to continue enhancing bsdhwmon (yep, I'm actively working on it
again!). Finding users in the community who have all these different
boards is tedious, and sometimes there are frustrations that come about
since many of their systems are in production.

Providing me hardware:

- You send me a mainboard (I have all the other components), either
new or used. Please include all accessories, as the board will
end up on a bare workbench and not mounted in a case.
- I can provide collateral (full retail cost) up front, assuming you
credit my CC when you receive the hardware back.
- You pay shipping costs to me, I pay shipping costs back.
- Any boards which don't work after receiving them from me I have no
problem paying full cost for. (Please don't try to scam me. :P)

Providing me remote access:

- System should be running FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE or newer (not CURRENT)
- SSH + root-level access (sudo is fine)
- Serial console access (specifically to the BIOS) would be absolutely
perfect. Otherwise I need you to write down a bunch of stuff in the
Hardware Monitoring section of the BIOS (only once).
- System shouldn't be production -- for example, I just got an X7SBL-LN2
board myself, and while adding support for it to bsdhwmon, I managed
to tickle the Winbond chip in such a way that during the next system
reboot, the Winbond internal buzzer/alarm went off until the system
was power-cycled (not hard reset). I'm fairly sure smbmsg(8)'s -p
flag caused this (I've reached out to jhb@ about the bugs).

What you get out of it:

- Not really sure, but we can work something out. I've 2 or 3 different
ideas which might suit you, depending on your above role. Worth
noting is that I *do* purchase Supermicro hardware for use in my
co-lo, and I haven't settled on a single vendor yet (tend to pick and
choose depending on cost vs. what's in stock vs. shipping time).

Development usually takes me 1-2 months (depends on what's going on with
my full-time job, and how fast Supermicro can get back to me with
technical details).

Please get in contact with me (fre...@jdc.parodius.com) if you're
interested in helping, otherwise I'll reach out to some local
distributors and see if they're willing.

Thank you!

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:39:19 -0400
From: "Mikhail T." <mi+...@aldan.algebra.com>
Subject: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass
To: sta...@FreeBSD.org, u...@FreeBSD.org
Message-ID: <4BBBFE67...@aldan.algebra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello!

I'm suffering from a fully reproducible panic, that strikes, when I
connect a umass storage device (Blackberry Pearl with a mini-SD card
inserted) to the EHCI USB port.

The system runs a freshly rebuilt 7.3-stable/amd64. The crash is
somewhere inside USB-stack. The stack, as produced by kgdb, can be found at:

http://aldan.algebra.com/~mi/tmp/usb-crash.txt

The usb4-process -- the current process at the panic-time -- is
associated with:

usb4: EHCI version 1.0
usb4: companion controllers, 3 ports each: usb2 usb3
usb4: <NEC uPD 720100 USB 2.0 controller> on ehci0
usb4: USB revision 2.0
uhub4: <NEC EHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1> on usb4

The system is running has 6Gb of RAM and 2 dual-core Opterons. The
connection was just fine with 7.2-stable from March 5th, although that
kernel was not an SMP one (by mistake).

Please, advise. Thank you,

-mi

P.S. Is the USB supposed to work in 7.x, or do I have to go to 8.x for
it to work reliably?

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:47:52 -0700
From: Jeremy Chadwick <fre...@jdc.parodius.com>
Subject: Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass
To: "Mikhail T." <mi+...@aldan.algebra.com>
Cc: u...@FreeBSD.org, sta...@FreeBSD.org
Message-ID: <20100407034...@icarus.home.lan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 11:39:19PM -0400, Mikhail T. wrote:
> P.S. Is the USB supposed to work in 7.x, or do I have to go to 8.x for
> it to work reliably?

The USB stack was completely re-written from the ground up between 7.x
and 8.x. There's a couple active maintainers of the present USB stack
who should be able to help track this down for you.

Regarding your problem: it likely has nothing to do with SMP, so don't
worry about that aspect of it.

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 22:49:00 -0500
From: "Sam Fourman Jr." <sfou...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Supermicro distributors
To: Jeremy Chadwick <fre...@jdc.parodius.com>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org, freebsd-...@freebsd.org
Message-ID:
<t2j11167f521004062049g4...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Jeremy Chadwick
<fre...@jdc.parodius.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> First off, sorry for cross-posting, but in this case I need somewhat of
> a broader audience. This is the first time I've ever asked for
> something like this, so I'm a bit shy. If end-users have other ideas
> on how I can go about this, I'm all ears.
>
> I'm looking for any Supermicro hardware distributors that linger on the
> mailing lists here. I know I've talked at least two of you in the past,
> so I'm certain you're out there, but I've lost your names/Email
> addresses.

As long as this thread is already started, I will jump on board. :)

Our company too is looking for Supermicro distributors.
feel free to email me off list.

Sam Fourman Jr.
Fourman Networks

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 00:26:46 -0400
From: "Mikhail T." <mi+...@aldan.algebra.com>
Subject: Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass
To: Jeremy Chadwick <fre...@jdc.parodius.com>
Cc: u...@FreeBSD.org, sta...@FreeBSD.org
Message-ID: <4BBC0986...@aldan.algebra.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R

Jeremy Chadwick ΞΑΠΙΣΑΧ(ΜΑ):
> Regarding your problem: it likely has nothing to do with SMP, so don't
> worry about that aspect of it.
Thanks for the reassuring response, Jeremy. If this is not about SMP,
then there is a (bad) regression -- the 7.2-kernel from March 5 never
crashed this way... I connected the same phone numerous times, as well
as the camera...

I shall await response from USB-maintainers...

-mi

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:05:46 +1000
From: Aristedes Maniatis <a...@ish.com.au>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Maciej Jan Broniarz <gau...@gausus.net>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <4BBC20BA...@ish.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 6/04/10 7:10 AM, Maciej Jan Broniarz wrote:
> W dniu 10-04-05 22:43, jfa...@goldsword.com pisze:
>> Quoting Maciej Jan Broniarz <gau...@gausus.net>:
>>> W dniu 10-04-05 22:08, Tonix (Antonio Nati) pisze:
>>>> Maciej Jan Broniarz ha scritto:
>>>>> W dniu 10-04-05 17:45, Mike Jakubik pisze:
>>>>
>>
>> So first you have to define your workload, then define what errors you
>> must avoid or allow, and then define how to deal with failures, errors,
>> etc.
>> Then you can start talking about High Availability vs. level of Fault
>> tolerance, vs. ....
>
> Let's say i need to run a few php/sql based web sites and I would like
> to maintain uptime of about 99,99% per month. No matter how good the
> hardware - it will always fail at some time. My goal is to build a
> system, that can maintain that uptime.
>
> From what You say I need some level of HA system, to maintain the
> required uptime.
>
> So, as I've said earlier (correct me, if I'm wrong) - the setup could
> look something like that:
>
> - 2 web servers with carp
> - 2 storage servers with on-line sync mechanism running
> - 2 mysql servers with on-line database replication
>
> (i'm skiping power and network issues at the moment).
>
> Few people have told me about a setup with linux, drbd and heartbeat
> which offers them some level of HA. Has anyone tried anything similar on
> FreeBSD?

We've recently set up a new colo facility with the following:

* dual ethernet links from our upstream
* dual HA pfSense (FreeBSD) boxes running haproxy to load balance incoming requests amongst live web servers
* dual switches
* 2 (or more) web (application) servers
* database

Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.

You need redundancy within the database application across multiple machines. Possible, but not easy. You aren't going to be doing that completely within the operating system itself. DRDB sort of gets you there, but DRDB isn't synchronous with the database activity, so you might still lose data.

A cheaper option is to use master-slave replication (postgresql and mysql offer this) and CARP failover (just don't fail back!). But it hasn't been quite robust enough for my liking.

Ari Maniatis

--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
ish
http://www.ish.com.au
Level 1, 30 Wilson Street Newtown 2042 Australia
phone +61 2 9550 5001 fax +61 2 9550 4001
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:59 +0300
From: Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Aristedes Maniatis <a...@ish.com.au>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org, Maciej Jan Broniarz
<gau...@gausus.net>
Message-ID: <4BBC2DAB...@icyb.net.ua>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

on 07/04/2010 09:05 Aristedes Maniatis said the following:
> Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and
> manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond
> most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything
> available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to
> the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.

Out of curiosity: have you considered MySQL Cluster:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL_Cluster
http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/faq.html

If yes, can you share your evaluation results?
Thanks!

--
Andriy Gapon

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 03:15:16 -0400
From: Joshua Boyd <boy...@jbip.net>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID:
<p2h33c6b0bc1004070015ia...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua> wrote:

> on 07/04/2010 09:05 Aristedes Maniatis said the following:
> > Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and
> > manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond
> > most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything
> > available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to
> > the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.
>

Master-master circular replication in mySQL probably fits the bill.
Master-slave requires a slave to promote itself to master, which can get
tricky.

>
> Out of curiosity: have you considered MySQL Cluster:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL_Cluster
> http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/faq.html
>
> If yes, can you share your evaluation results?
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Andriy Gapon
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd...@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stabl...@freebsd.org"
>

--
Joshua Boyd
JBipNet

E-mail: boy...@jbip.net
Cell: (513) 375-0157

http://www.jbip.net

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 23:54:14 -0700
From: Bill Campbell <fre...@celestial.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for Supermicro distributors
To: freebsd...@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick
<fre...@jdc.parodius.com>, freebsd-...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20100407065...@ayn.mi.celestial.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Tue, Apr 06, 2010, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote:
>On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Jeremy Chadwick
><fre...@jdc.parodius.com> wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> First off, sorry for cross-posting, but in this case I need somewhat of
>> a broader audience. This is the first time I've ever asked for
>> something like this, so I'm a bit shy. If end-users have other ideas
>> on how I can go about this, I'm all ears.

We do a fair amount of business with Silicon Mechanics of Bothell
Washington. I don't know how much they do with freebsd as most
of our work with them involves Linux, but they have been
competent and provide excellent support.

Bill
--
INTERNET: bi...@celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820
Fax: (206) 232-9186 Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792

There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves. -- Will Rogers

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:23:45 +1000
From: Aristedes Maniatis <a...@ish.com.au>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org, Maciej Jan Broniarz
<gau...@gausus.net>
Message-ID: <4BBC3301...@ish.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 7/04/10 5:00 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote:
> on 07/04/2010 09:05 Aristedes Maniatis said the following:
>> Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and
>> manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond
>> most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything
>> available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to
>> the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.
>
> Out of curiosity: have you considered MySQL Cluster:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL_Cluster
> http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/faq.html
>
> If yes, can you share your evaluation results?
> Thanks!

This is getting a bit offtopic to this list, but there are severe limitations with that product which make it unsuitable for my needs.

Ari Maniatis

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:37:14 +0100
From: Matthew Seaman <m.se...@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Joshua Boyd <boy...@jbip.net>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <4BBC362A...@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/04/2010 08:15:16, Joshua Boyd wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Andriy Gapon <a...@icyb.net.ua> wrote:
>
>> on 07/04/2010 09:05 Aristedes Maniatis said the following:
>>> Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and
>>> manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond
>>> most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything
>>> available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to
>>> the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.
>>
>
> Master-master circular replication in mySQL probably fits the bill.
> Master-slave requires a slave to promote itself to master, which can get
> tricky.

Although with master-master you need to be really careful to only use
one instance read-write at any one time. In theory you can design your
DB schema and SQL to work correctly with multiple masters; in practice
virtually no downloadable applications will work like this.

Also remember that MySQL replication runs in a single thread on a single
CPU core. It's quite easy for a busy DB master with plenty of CPU cores
to go so fast the replica can't actually keep up even if the replica
uses exactly the same hardware. Anyone who has a really good solution
to this problem is going to make themselves rich beyond the dreams of
avarice...

>> Out of curiosity: have you considered MySQL Cluster:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL_Cluster
>> http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/faq.html
>>
>> If yes, can you share your evaluation results?
>> Thanks!

You need at least three machines to build a MySQL cluster; preferably
more like 6 or 7. All of your data has to fit in RAM on those machines
and you need at least two copies of each item of data for resilience, so
don't bother trying this with anything other than a well populated 64bit
box. Also, if /all/ of your servers crash at the same time (power
problems tend to have this result) then your data has gone *poof* and
you'll be restoring from backup. You did remember to set up a regular
job to create snapshots of the clustered data didn't you?

Cluster tends to be slower than what you can achieve with straight MySQL
on the same hardware.

Cheers,

Matthew

- --
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 03:53:37 -0500
From: Paul Procacci <ppro...@datapipe.com>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: <freebsd...@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <4BBC4811...@datapipe.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed

On 4/7/2010 2:37 AM, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 07/04/2010 08:15:16, Joshua Boyd wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Andriy Gapon<a...@icyb.net.ua> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> on 07/04/2010 09:05 Aristedes Maniatis said the following:
>>>
>>>> Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and
>>>> manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond
>>>> most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything
>>>> available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to
>>>> the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.
>>>>
>>>
>> Master-master circular replication in mySQL probably fits the bill.
>> Master-slave requires a slave to promote itself to master, which can get
>> tricky.
>>
> Although with master-master you need to be really careful to only use
> one instance read-write at any one time. In theory you can design your
> DB schema and SQL to work correctly with multiple masters; in practice
> virtually no downloadable applications will work like this.
>
> Also remember that MySQL replication runs in a single thread on a single
> CPU core. It's quite easy for a busy DB master with plenty of CPU cores
> to go so fast the replica can't actually keep up even if the replica
> uses exactly the same hardware. Anyone who has a really good solution
> to this problem is going to make themselves rich beyond the dreams of
> avarice...
>

I'd like to chime in and provide some ideas that we use here for some of
our clients which works quite well. In regards to master/slave, it's
quite trival to use a shared storage device like a 3par in combo' with
some heartbeat software. You have a floating ip that ping pongs back
and forth between two machines depending on the error conditions that
you set. As for the 3par itself, it has fiber to multiple switches so
losing that connection generally means a natural disaster taking it
offline. Multipath (teaming/bonding) configurations take care of switch
problems. I suppose this isn't really master/slave in the real sense,
rather two independant "masters" that can potentially read from the same
dataset, but does provide a very high level of redundancy without "data
duplication". As for shared storage devices, personally I'd only use
fault tolerant devices and stay away from an MSA for example.

In regards to master/master I agree with the above whole heartedly. We
have some clients that use it, but occasionally run into problems where
one of the "masters" falls so far behind another master, we're forced to
take it out of the pool. In our case, a quick and simple ipfw rule
blocking new connections tells our loadbalancer to quit sending new
connection here until it's caught up, but it's a royal PITA, but really
can't think of any other possible solution to this.

In addition, we evaluated commercial middleware appliances offered by a
couple of companies and while they all worked, they were all terribly slow.

Also in regards to MysqlCluster, I had tested its throughput about a
year ago, thinking that would be the way to go for future master/master
deployments. I don't remember the specific terminology so bear with me,
but as the number of "data stores" increased, the latency increased
along with it. On top of this, I was only able to get around 300 qps.
This is abyssmal compared to a standalone machine. Naturally this was
all on 8 core machines, tons of ram, and GigE interfaces. Needless to
say, we scratched that idea real quick. The cost to perfmance ratio
just wasn't worth it. Maybe this has changed since I've last visited
this, though I'm uncertain.

Anyways, I hope this provides some useful insight.

~Paul

This message may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise us immediately and delete this message. See http://www.datapipe.com/about-us-legal-email-disclaimer.htm for further information on confidentiality and the risks of non-secure electronic communication. If you cannot access these links, please notify us by reply message and we will send the contents to you.

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:35:36 +0200
From: Alban Hertroys <dal...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl>
Subject: Re: fault tolerant web servers on freebsd
To: Aristedes Maniatis <a...@ish.com.au>
Cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org, Maciej Jan Broniarz
<gau...@gausus.net>
Message-ID:
<2009EC16-FAAA-4756...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On 7 Apr 2010, at 8:05, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:

> Until we get to 'database' everything is HA and quite easy to build and manage. Having a clustered database solution is expensive and beyond most smallish budgets. mysql and postgresql don't have anything available that is quite ready yet (IMO), so you'll need to be talking to the bigger (expensive) players about their clustered offerings.

There are quite a few replication projects for postgres, aren't you writing them off a bit too easily? I know that for example the guys from Skype wrote and maintain one of them, I imagine they'd be quite concerned about HA. And there are a number more (see: http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Replication,_Clustering,_and_Connection_Pooling).

I suggest that you poll their mailing list with your problem/requirements if you didn't already. They're usually rather helpful and will certainly confirm if there's no solution to your situation (yet).

Alban Hertroys

--
If you can't see the forest for the trees,
cut the trees and you'll see there is no forest.

!DSPAM:74,4bbc600010411126416115!

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:20:17 +0200
From: "Julian H. Stacey" <j...@berklix.com>
Subject: Re: 7.3: instant panic upon connecting a umass
To: "Mikhail T." <mi+...@aldan.algebra.com>
Cc: u...@freebsd.org, sta...@freebsd.org, Jeremy Chadwick
<fre...@jdc.parodius.com>
Message-ID: <201004071120....@fire.js.berklix.net>

Hi,
Reference:
> From: "Mikhail T." <mi+...@aldan.algebra.com>
> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 00:26:46 -0400
> Message-id: <4BBC0986...@aldan.algebra.com>

"Mikhail T." wrote:
> Jeremy Chadwick ΞΑΠΙΣΑΧ(ΜΑ):
> > Regarding your problem: it likely has nothing to do with SMP, so don't
> > worry about that aspect of it.
> Thanks for the reassuring response, Jeremy. If this is not about SMP,
> then there is a (bad) regression -- the 7.2-kernel from March 5 never
> crashed this way... I connected the same phone numerous times, as well
> as the camera...

I wonder if it's eg a corrupt FS not being fsck'd first ? Did you
try patching out your devd.conf entry, & running by hand each stage
of whatever is listed in there for that USB device ?

Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
Mail plain text, Not HTML quoted-printable Base64 http://www.asciiribbon.org

------------------------------

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