Re: LinuxBSDos.com article
Jayton Garnett
To the average PC user, yes it is going to be the only one to compete with
Ubuntu - unsuccessfully.
To the higher life forms - e.g. uber g33ks like us, no. Although when I
tried it out, I did quite enjoy the experience of PCBSD.
The keywords there is 'desktop distributions'.
FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, and requires prior knowledge
of what and where things are to get FreeBSD into a workable desktop
environment, whereas PCBSD is more plug'n play and dare I say it 'just
works'.
Charlie Kester
"PC-BSD is ... the only BSD-based distribution that’s in a position to
compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..."
<sigh>
Giorgos Keramidas
This is a pretty realistic way to put it, IMO. Note that, to PC-BSD's
credit, it is compares with the *best* Linux distributions. That's a
nice way of saying how cool PC-BSD is :-)
Matthew Seaman
Hash: SHA1
Interesting though that the feature he chooses to highlight is the PF
configuration applet. Sure PF knocks the socks off ipchains and the
other packet filters available under Linux, but judging by what he
shows, the configuration applet simplifies things so much it doesn't
really expose any of the bits that make PF special. That applet could
generate configs for just about any packet filter in existence with no
change to the user interface.
Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the
configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really
strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I
know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables
managing more complicated stuff?
Cheers,
Matthew
- --
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
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John Murphy
> FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ...
What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now?
--
John.
Max Laier
The BSD-Distro to play with midi is called OS X ;)
Cheers,
Max
John Murphy
"Those who would give up freedom for midi deserve neither freedom or midi."
:)
--
John.
Stephen Hurd
You mean driving MIDI hardware or the ability to play MIDI files? I've
never used any of my MIDI hardware, and I use timidity for playing MIDI
format.
Stephen Hurd
> Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the
> configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really
> strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I
> know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables
> managing more complicated stuff?
>
That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... the
only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into
some unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that
the GUI generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the
ability to tweak it if you know what you want and how to use the
software is removed and then it will be the equal of the best of Linux
distros.
Kevin Kinsey
[Root@Tux][/proc]$man ls
no manual entry for 'ls'
So, no "man" pages?? What brave soul will fight the demasculinization
of Beastie??!
KDK
</troll>
Dag-Erling Smørgrav
> John Murphy <fbs...@freeode.co.uk> writes:
> > Jayton Garnett <jayton....@gmail.com> writes:
> > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ...
> > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now?
> You mean driving MIDI hardware or the ability to play MIDI files?
The former. It's ancient FreeBSD history: our current audio framework
did not initially support MIDI, while the one it replaced did. There
was much bad blood at the time between supporters of the old framework
(people who used MIDI) and supporters of the new framework (everybody
else).
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - d...@des.no
Jayton Garnett
I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1
surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it?
Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be
streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is.
How will your MIDI cope then?
mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-)
Brett Glass
Wish it were fully BSD-based! Alas, it uses a GPLed GUI. (Yes, I
know that this doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters a lot to
me personally. I want to be able to hack on the code without
lending support to the political agenda that accompanies the GPL; I
also do not want to open myself to appropriation of my work due to
having inspected GPLed code. No flame wars, please.)
In any event, if I were to run a FreeBSD-based desktop system (as
opposed to servers and appliances, which is what I do with
FreeBSD), I'd want the GUI to be BSD-licensed or Apache-licensed.
--Brett Glass
FBSD UG
midi has nothing to do with audio.
it's a protocol to automate keys and sliders, send tempo,
velocity, etc etc on synthesizers, filters or even light equipment.
it's still a big part in audiostudios.
Arno
Lars Engels
> At 03:06 AM 2/18/2010, Charlie Kester wrote:
>
> >http://linuxbsdos.com/2010/02/18/pc-bsds-graphical-firewall-manager/
> >
> >compete with the best Linux desktop distributions..."
>
> Wish it were fully BSD-based! Alas, it uses a GPLed GUI. (Yes, I
> know that this doesn't matter to everyone, but it matters a lot to
> me personally. I want to be able to hack on the code without
> lending support to the political agenda that accompanies the GPL; I
> also do not want to open myself to appropriation of my work due to
> having inspected GPLed code. No flame wars, please.)
>
> In any event, if I were to run a FreeBSD-based desktop system (as
> opposed to servers and appliances, which is what I do with
> FreeBSD), I'd want the GUI to be BSD-licensed or Apache-licensed.
Fluxbox is also in PCBSD's base system. It is released under a BSD
license.
John Murphy
Thanks Arno. And supported in FreeBSD since about '96 as far as I
can tell. Shows how far behind the (freebsd) times I am. Nothing
in the multi-media section of the handbook though and only a very
old version of Rosegarden for instance. Better stick with Linux
I guess...
--
John.
Kevin Kinsey
X-actly. When 5.1 Surround evolves into a protocol
that will run my synths (any of which are worth more
than any computer I have that runs FBSD ... ok, they
*cost* more anyways), lemme know.
Kevin Kinsey
Stephen Hurd
MIDI is a protocol and the support that's (apparently) missing is the ability to speak this protocol to devices which use it (such as drum sets) over a port which exists soley to transmit this protocol (the MIDI/Game port on your sound card).
Turning a MIDI track into audio is a separate issue... if I happened to own a selection of drum machines and synthesizers and instead of being able to use them, I suddnely must use software synthesis output via the sound card, this would be a massive step down in quality regardless of it being 5.1 surround at 96MHz.
The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to not support firewire... dropping support for an interface/protocol which a small set of people in a specific group use but laregly doesn't impart the average user.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jayton Garnett <jayton....@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:00 am
Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article
> Why would I be bothered about MIDI?
> I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround
> Sound. 5.1
> surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it?
>
> Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content
> will be
> streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is.
> How will your MIDI cope then?
>
>
> mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> freebs...@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-
> unsub...@freebsd.org"
Dag-Erling Smørgrav
> The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to not
> support firewire...
Like Apple just did? :P
Stephen Hurd
----- Original Message -----
From: Dag-Erling Sm�rgrav <d...@des.no>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:27 am
Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article
> Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
> > The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to not
> > support firewire...
>
> Like Apple just did? :P
>
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Sm�rgrav - d...@des.no
>
KAYVEN RIESE
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p5060081.vhtml
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p5060083.vhtml
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/bsdend/P5170124.vhtml
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p506005801.vhtml
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/pcbsd/p506005901.vhtml
> _______________________________________________
> freebs...@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat...@freebsd.org"
>
*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
Charlie Kester
Not taking anything away from PC-BSD, but the way the article put it, it
sounded like a slam on FreeBSD (and OpenBSD and NetBSD too).
pete wright
hrm I took that as an indication of the good foundation that FreeBSD
has laid for pc-bsd. The only thing that irked me was that they used
the phrase "BSD-base distribution". *BSD is an OS, not a kernel with
a bunch of stuff bolted on to it - heh.
-pete
--
pete wright
www.nycbug.org
KAYVEN RIESE
Ummm.. is it because they actually _create_ music by playing an
instrument??
KAYVEN RIESE
So it is no longer a What-ever-you-want-except-flash distro?
>
> --
> John.
KAYVEN RIESE
<troll>
Yay! chat!
</troll
Oliver Fromme
> Why would I be bothered about MIDI?
You wouldn't because you're obviously not a musician.
> I've got an on-board sound card that has, get this, 5.1 Surround Sound. 5.1
> surround sound, can you ruddy well believe it?
What does that have to do with MIDI?
I've got a MIDI keyboard that can be connected to a PC.
It can be used with almost every OS on the planet, from
ancient MS-DOS to Windows 7, of course OS X and Linux,
NetBSD and OpenBSD, and even less common systems like
OS/2, BeOS and its successor Haiku-OS. They all support
MIDI interfaces out of the box.
But -- FreeBSD does not. It's the only OS I cannot use
my keyboard with. This is frustrating and annoying.
> Come on, it's 2010, not 1985! Get with the times. Most content will be
> streamed online within the next 5, a lot of it already is.
> How will your MIDI cope then?
>
> mv /dev/midi* /dev/null ;-)
Sounds like you don't know what MIDI really is, and how
important it still is for musicians.
Best regards
Oliver
--
Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M.
Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch�ftsfuehrung:
secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M�n-
chen, HRB 125758, Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart
FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
"UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things,
because that would also stop you from doing clever things."
-- Doug Gwyn
Vincent Hoffman
> On 19/02/2010 09:30, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
> > Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
> >> "Dag-Erling Smørgrav" <d...@des.no> writes:
> >>> Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
> >>>> The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to
> >>>> not support firewire...
> >>> Like Apple just did? :P
>
>
> Huh?
>
> seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0
> fw0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 4078
> lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44
> media: autoselect <full-duplex> status: inactive
> supported media: autoselect <full-duplex>
>
> MacBookPro, less than a month old...
>
I believe they only dropped it on the macbooks (not the pro.) There was
the usual hoo-ha back in 2008
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9117339/Apple_users_rage_over_missing_FireWire
http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/jobs-sort-of-speaks-out-on-macbook-dropping-firewire-20081017/
Vince
> Cheers,
>
> Matthew
>
Oliver Fromme
> John Murphy wrote:
> > Jayton Garnett wrote:
> >
> > > FreeBSD is more of a What-ever-you-want distro, ...
> >
> > What-ever-you-want-except-midi distro. Or has that changed now?
>
> So it is no longer a What-ever-you-want-except-flash distro?
Well, yes. Flash works fine.
I'm using the flashplugin with linux-opera on 8-stable.
(It's important to have the latest versions of all the
software involved, and don't forget to mount linprocfs
and the other prerequisites. There are instructions in
the FreeBSD handbook.)
Best regards
Oliver
--
Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M.
Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch�ftsfuehrung:
secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M�n-
chen, HRB 125758, Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart
FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd
"I invented Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but Bill Gates made it famous."
-- David Bradley, original IBM PC design team
Dag-Erling Smørgrav
> > > The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to
> > > not support firewire...
> > Like Apple just did? :P
Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports.
DES
Matthew Seaman
Hash: SHA1
On 19/02/2010 09:30, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
> Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
>> "Dag-Erling Smørgrav" <d...@des.no> writes:
>>> Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
>>>> The decision to not support it would be (was?) like deciding to
>>>> not support firewire...
>>> Like Apple just did? :P
>> Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X?
>
> Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports.
Huh?
seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0
fw0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 4078
lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44
media: autoselect <full-duplex> status: inactive
supported media: autoselect <full-duplex>
MacBookPro, less than a month old...
Cheers,
Matthew
- --
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard
Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW
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Jayton Garnett
If it caused you that much offence, I apologise.
Dag-Erling Smørgrav
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav <d...@des.no> writes:
> > Stephen Hurd <hu...@sasktel.net> writes:
> > > Oh? Firewire can't be used with new versions of OS/X?
> > Sure it can, but newer MacBooks don't have Firewire ports.
> Huh?
>
> seedling:~:% ifconfig fw0
> fw0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 4078
> lladdr d4:9a:20:ff:fe:d7:47:44
> media: autoselect <full-duplex> status: inactive
> supported media: autoselect <full-duplex>
>
> MacBookPro, less than a month old...
http://www.techspot.com/news/32102-Apple-drops-FireWire-on-some-MacBooks-incites-outrage.html
(note: MacBook != MacBookPro)
Rick N
> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:33:46 -0800
> From: ka...@sfsu.edu
> To: k...@daleco.biz
> CC: freebs...@freebsd.org; sh...@sasktel.net
> Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, Kevin Kinsey wrote:
> > Stephen Hurd wrote:
> >> Matthew Seaman wrote:
>
> >>> Saying "there's this really great firewall on PC-BSD, but the
> >>> configuration app doesn't let you use it very well" doesn't really
> >>> strike me as a positive statement about PC-BSD. Perhaps there's an "I
> >>> know what I'm doing" button somewhere yet to be mentioned which enables
> >>> managing more complicated stuff?
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's actually a very good comparison to the best Linux distros... the
> >> only tricks that PC-BSD missed are moving the configuration files into some
> >> unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the GUI
> >> generates in yet a a third place on every boot. Once the ability to tweak
> >> it if you know what you want and how to use the software is removed and
> >> then it will be the equal of the best of Linux distros.
> >
> > [Root@Tux][/proc]$man ls
> > no manual entry for 'ls'
...
---------------------------------
Yup,
("..... the configuration files into some
> >> unfindable place and re-generating them from a different file that the GUI
> >> generates in yet a a third place on every boot.....")
I found that a bit tedious too, "locate" became the most used command with every linux distro switch ? :)
_________________________________________________________________
Rick N
I'm picking up the M-Audio Audiophile 192, mostly becuase this sound card does work well with FreeBSD/OSS drivers, from what I've read. ?
But mmm, unfortunately I didn't even know/remeber that FreeBSD has no midi at all ? It certainly won't prevent me from using *BSD anyways.
Hopefully, midi may ba added in the future.
ahh well :(
> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:20:11 +0100
> From: ol...@lurza.secnetix.de
> To: freebs...@FreeBSD.ORG
> CC:
> Subject: Re: LinuxBSDos.com article
> _______________________________________________
> freebs...@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat...@freebsd.org"
_________________________________________________________________
spellberg_robert
it is particularly sad when that thingy was wildly popular, back in the before_time.
while not directly related to freebsd, at --this-- time,
i observe that the, formerly universal, rs_232 serial_port is no_longer always included on motherboards.
i am fond of the 908_series of embedded_controllers from freescale [ nee motorola ].
to program the flash_rom,
i could spend several_hundred dollars on a dedicated appliance,
which may_or_may_not program all of the devices which interest me.
it may not support future devices; if it breaks, i can't fix it.
on the other_hand, i can roll_my_own.
this costs a_few_tens of dollars, applies to any device using this interface and i can fix it
[ it should be noted that the things that i build tend to not_break, because i am the repair_man ].
the simplest approach requires an easily_programmed computer with a rs_232 port.
the interface is a single pin.
the pin used varies from part to part, which is why the appliance may not support all devices.
i need half_duplex, 9600 bps, 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop_bit.
converting half_duplex to full_duplex is easy.
i need complementary 12_ to 15_volt supplies, which are downright cheap.
this is child's_play.
[ for those who find an 8_bit cpu to be interesting,
a web_site page with a link to a pdf [ 2.6 mb ] of the data_sheet for
a representative and particularly_popular member of the series, the 908qy4,
may be found here:
]
on the freebsd side, i need to dissect the man_pages so that i can control the 16550.
the authors of these pages, while well_meaning, considered rs_232 as a means of
talking to a modem [ a full_featured appliance ] or
talking to a terminal [ also, a full_featured appliance ].
i found myself reading between the lines, frequently.
rs_232 works very well
for short messages,
over short distances,
in environments of up_to_moderate noise,
using inexpensive components.
for these reasons, it --will-- be made illegal; de_facto, if not de_jure.
it may be several years [ ten ? ], but, sooner_or_later,
freebsd will drop support for and/or remove the capability of implementing,
what are coming to be called, the "legacy" serial and parallel ports,
because the general_public will not be using them.
i will mourn this, but, i will understand, because
freebsd_people are, statistically, software_people, not hardware_people.
i will find a work_around,
either by implementing the new interface or by converting between new and old.
as long as i have six addressable bits whose level i can flip individually [ 3 out and 3 in ],
i can rig a full_duplex link that runs as fast as the slower end_point hardware.
apparently [ from what i read ], statistically, freebsd_people are not musicians, either.
neither am i; although i --did-- take violin lessons as a youngster.
so, make mine bob wills or jascha heifetx, please.
rob
Rick N
> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:27:33 +0000
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ya, I agree, FreeBSD has always been heavy in Software Development. many teeth have been sharpened with it for the best products, aka the new Apple's.
Its too bad 'cause obviously, hardware development in tandem with FreeBSD would...oops, well,... its commercially already here, in some derivative, called MacOS "X" (both HW and SW)-and that in itself is a testament to the power of BSD (and irs Licensing scheme) as well?
No market, then not much investment money from the rest of the hardware industry, unfortunatley. an that is too bad.
so Kudos to the folks at PC-BSD for keeping FreeBSD alive 'n well for all the NOT so "uber-G33ks"
;)
_________________________________________________________________
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121_______________________________________________
Charlie Kester
>apparently [ from what i read ], statistically, freebsd_people are not
>musicians, either. neither am i; although i --did-- take violin
>lessons as a youngster. so, make mine bob wills or jascha heifetx,
>please.
Heh, Bob Wills is still the king. Aaaah-ha!