adding a new lucee site on shared hosting causes all other lucee sites to go down for half an hour?

[Luke]

hi

i have a few sites on shared hosting using lucee. today i wanted to set up a subdomain for a test site, and was told by the hosting company ( host media ) that they have to do this in what they call off-peak hours because setting up a new lucee site means restarting the lucee service;

"Once we have added your domain to lucee configuration file, we will have to restart the lucee service and it will take about a half hour to complete the process. During the restart process, all the Lucee enabled domains on the shared server will be down. In order to avoid this, we are scheduled to perform the task during off peak hours. Hope you understand the situation. We will update you once the task has been completed. Your patience is much appreciated."

is this really true? we were on railo before and i don't remember this, i remember setting up new sub domains and new sites with railo really quickly. is this a change in how lucee does things? or are the hosting company trying to blag me? they did have some trouble after the railo to lucee migration ...

if thats true, its really bad for those of us on shared hosting that any time a new lucee site is added, all the other lucee sites are down for half an hour!

luke

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 3:05:36 PM UTC+1, Luke wrote:

and was told by the hosting company ( host media ) that they have to do this in what they call off-peak hours because setting up a new lucee site means restarting the lucee service;

"Once we have added your domain to lucee configuration file, we will have to restart the lucee service and it will take about a half hour to complete the process. During the restart process, all the Lucee enabled domains on the shared server will be down. In order to avoid this, we are scheduled to perform the task during off peak hours. Hope you understand the situation. We will update you once the task has been completed. Your patience is much appreciated."

is this really true?

It was, and of course it depends on their set up, but Lucee normally installs the mod_cfml connector for Apache, which means this isn't required.

Tom

[Andrew Dixon]

Even if they are using mod_ajp, it is still possible to do this without restarting Lucee, you can do it via the Tomcat Host Manager, which is how we do it. 

Also, it sounds like they have a bad configuration if it is taking 30 minutes for their server to restart. There was a thread in this group a couple of months ago about this and if they are using Tomcat (I'm assuming they are) then they need to make the adjustments to their configuration that were suggested there.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Andrew Dixon]

Here is the link to the specific thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/lucee/Z0MqvS7z9gw/fQoOh2coB-MJ

and Gavin's post here explains it:

http://www.gpickin.com/index.cfm/blog/how-to-get-your-tomcat-to-pounce-on-startup-not-crawl

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

[Luke]

thank you both, i will point the hosting company to this thread

thanks again

luke

[jona...@hostmedia.co.uk]

Hi Luke,

The restart is estimated at 30min to be on the safe side and a lot of the process is the team checking to ensure everything is done correctly. I have emailed the Lucee team a couple times regarding full cPanel + Lucee integration but never got a reply from them. This is something that should be on their high priority list as this would increase the amount of hosting companies offering Lucee on their services. If more companies offer Lucee CFML then more people may try using CFML instead of the standard server setups of PHP/.NET etc.

It would be great if the Railo4cPanel (with mod_cfml) was extended to work fully with cPanel's multiply domain system/folder structure but sorry to say it doesn't. To have cPanel + Lucee running with all features this reboot is still required - that is of course if someone knows a better way then please do share :) always happy to improve the service to give customers the best possible!

Thanks and let us know if you have any questions.

[Luke]

thanks jonathon

as it turns out i don't think it was anywhere near half hour - at least i didn't notice it and i was checking every now and then!

i hope lucee replies and follows things up, i agree with you - with cpanel being so widely used things need to be made to work as best as possible. it'll benefit everyone - lucee, lucee users and hosting providers

luke

[Mark Drew]

What does anyone have to do to make it work in cPanel? Just asking, as when I was part of the team, these things would get asked but despite appearances maybe the best placed people to say this are the ones using cPanel (rather than the ones not using it!)

For example, whilst at Railo, I never used cPanel (as a hoster) so it would really need to come from the community on what is needed to be done and how.

Know what I mean?

Regards

Mark Drew

'Luke' via Lucee

6 July 2015 11:34

thanks jonathon

as it turns out i don't think it was anywhere near half hour - at least i didn't notice it and i was checking every now and then!

i hope lucee replies and follows things up, i agree with you - with cpanel being so widely used things need to be made to work as best as possible. it'll benefit everyone - lucee, lucee users and hosting providers

luke

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 10:56:14 AM UTC+1, Jonathon Lucas wrote:

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jona...@hostmedia.co.uk

6 July 2015 10:56

Hi Luke,

The restart is estimated at 30min to be on the safe side and a lot of the process is the team checking to ensure everything is done correctly. I have emailed the Lucee team a couple times regarding full cPanel + Lucee integration but never got a reply from them. This is something that should be on their high priority list as this would increase the amount of hosting companies offering Lucee on their services. If more companies offer Lucee CFML then more people may try using CFML instead of the standard server setups of PHP/.NET etc.

It would be great if the Railo4cPanel (with mod_cfml) was extended to work fully with cPanel's multiply domain system/folder structure but sorry to say it doesn't. To have cPanel + Lucee running with all features this reboot is still required - that is of course if someone knows a better way then please do share :) always happy to improve the service to give customers the best possible!

Thanks and let us know if you have any questions.

 

On Friday, 3 July 2015 15:05:36 UTC+1, Luke wrote:

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'Luke' via Lucee

3 July 2015 15:05

hi

i have a few sites on shared hosting using lucee. today i wanted to set up a subdomain for a test site, and was told by the hosting company ( host media ) that they have to do this in what they call off-peak hours because setting up a new lucee site means restarting the lucee service;

is this really true? we were on railo before and i don't remember this, i remember setting up new sub domains and new sites with railo really quickly. is this a change in how lucee does things? or are the hosting company trying to blag me? they did have some trouble after the railo to lucee migration ...

if thats true, its really bad for those of us on shared hosting that any time a new lucee site is added, all the other lucee sites are down for half an hour!

luke

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[Jonathon Lucas]

The Railo4cPanel was a great start which Jordan (Vivio) created but the issue is the folder structure that cPanel uses for its addon domain feature. With cPanel it is possible to create web roots inside the default web root. For example:

/public_html/ --(Default site: example.com)

/example2.com/ --(Addon domain outside of default web root)

/public_html/example2.com/ --(Addon domain in default web root)

/public_html/example2.com/example3.com/ --(Addon domain in default web root and an addon domain root)

All of the above is possible with cPanel so when the entries are created in Tomcat it needs to check the location and if it is within the web root it needs to apply an 'Alias' to the tomcat entry to the default website. If it is outside of the default web root (/public_html/) then it needs to create a new entry in the Tomcat service.

I have spent a little bit of time planning/playing about with this and should be possible but needs more development.

At the moment Vivio use the Railo4cPanel still (as far as I know) but for one of their customers to have multi domains they turn off the addon domain support and the customer needs to buy a reseller hosting package.

Love to hear other peoples insight into this.

Cheers!

[Nando Breiter]

Not sure this is even worth 2 cents, but it's dead easy to add an alias or a new host to a tomcat server.xml file. I'm sure others might find value in a tool that does that for you, but for me, a text editor is more than sufficient.

Aria Media Sagl
Via Rompada 40
6987 Caslano
Switzerland

+41 (0)91 600 9601
+41 (0)76 303 4477 cell
skype: ariamedia

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[Jonathon Lucas]

Yes Nando that is true if you are only managing a couple of websites or only change it now and again but when you host hundreds or even thousands sites over many servers then it is a different story. Integration with cPanel will increase the exposure of Lucee and CFML.

[Luke]

would it be easier to just make cpanel not allow new domains/sub domains for lucee accounts to be added inside an existing domain root folder?

i never liked that feature, doesn't make sense to me to put a new domain/sub domain inside a folder of an existing one

you could load the example2.com site by going to example.com/example2.com ( because example2.com is just a folder inside /public_html/ for example.com ) - but you'd have the lucee settings from example.com - so its pointless

then you don't need to check, just create a new entry in the tomcat service

[Tom Chiverton]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+1, Luke wrote:

would it be easier to just make cpanel not allow new domains/sub domains for lucee accounts to be added inside an existing domain root folder?

Unless that's an option I don't know cPanel has, and you expect hosting provides to toggle it on for Lucee customers (thus making them special), or otherwise change their entire hosting setup, no, it's not going to be easier :-)

Although I dislike it too, it's "how it is done".

Does Tomcat have an issue with nested web root folders like

sitea.com/WEB-INF
sitea.com/siteb.com/WEB-INF

then ?
I'd naively expect that to Just Work ?

Tom

[Mark Drew]

Sounds like an utter security issue to me! 

Mark Drew

- Sent by typing with my thumbs. 

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[Jonathon Lucas]

Unless things have changed in Tomcat it didn't work before when we were playing around with it. The service wouldn't start due to errors.

It is annoying we can't turn off that feature as it would solve a lot issues for our Lucee customers and even standard hosting customers as it would be less confusing on where to put the the addon domain path.

[Mark Drew]

Could you not just make a *fake* (unavailable and redirected) main domain and then all the sub domains have to be under it, for example:

markdrew.co.uk - > www.markdrew.co.uk

www.markdrew.co.uk -> /domains/markdrew.co.uk/www.markdrew.co.uk
stuff.markdrew.co.uk -> /domains/markdrew.co.uk/stuff.markdrew.co.uk
nonsense.markdrew.co.uk -> /domains/markdrew.co.uk/nonsense.markdrew.co.uk


Although I am sure you have already thought of this.

MD

[Jonathon Lucas]

It's not an option in cPanel to adjust this for customers. Also we can't tell customers not to do it how they want it otherwise someone could say "why does cpanel allow it when I have to do it for Lucee like this". This is when the Tomcat connector needs to be able to handle all of this automatically.

[Jordan Michaels]

The sites created under the main site are all owned by the same user, so it's not a security issue, just a pain for Tomcat contexts because of the nesting.

-Jordan

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[Jordan Michaels]

Mark, your suggestion is basically what we've been recommending: Use either a place-holder domain or static site for the primary domain, then set up your CFML sites as your add-on domains. That way there's no context overlap with the primary domain because it doesn't have or need a context.

But, as Jonathon points out, this is not easy to change once you have things set up, and it's confusing for folks who don't understand contexts yet. The improvements Paul has made in mod_cfml 1.1 will help a lot (with it's alias support and vdir support), and getting the Railo4cPanel project updated to Lucee4cPanel is on my shortlist after an installer update. There are several hosting companies using Railo4cPanel, so it needs to get done soon. I'm still bogged down with Vivio projects though, so it will be a little while longer.

Github repo is here if anyone needs it done faster than I can get to it:
https://github.com/utdream/Lucee4cPanel

-Jordan



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathon Lucas" <jona...@hostmedia.co.uk>
To: lu...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 6:19:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Lucee] Re: adding a new lucee site on shared hosting causes all other lucee sites to go down for half an hour?

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[Tom Chiverton]

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 6:57:29 PM UTC+1, Jordan Michaels wrote:

The sites created under the main site are all owned by the same user, so it's not a security issue, just a pain for Tomcat contexts because of the nesting.

Sure it might be? I can get the WEB-INF for a different site from
sitea.com/siteb.com/WEB-INF
and I bet it isn't protected by most IP restrictions for things like the Lucee admin either, because they expect to be in '/lucee-admin' not '/siteb.com/lucee-admin', but I've not looked at it extensively.

I'd want to try it more, but it looks like standing up a stand-alone cPanel is going to take longer than I have.

Tom

[Chris Jordan]

Are there any updates to the Lucee4cPanel project? I'm also a HostMedia customer using Lucee and ran into this problem when adding a subdomain. I notice that the last post on this topic is almost exactly a year old. I also noticed that last commits to github for this project (https://github.com/utdream/Lucee4cPanel) are four years old (ugh). Is there any hope of getting this up and working anytime soon? I'd volunteer to help work on Lucee4cPanel myself, but I'm afraid I don't know enough.

Cheers,

Chris

[Jordan Michaels]

Hi Chris,

This is still on my project list. Sadly, I just haven't been able to get to it yet.

--
Kind regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Jordan" <tof...@gmail.com>
To: "Lucee" <lu...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:04:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Lucee] Re: adding a new lucee site on shared hosting causes all other lucee sites to go down for half an hour?

Are there any updates to the Lucee4cPanel project? I'm also a HostMedia
customer using Lucee and ran into this problem when adding a subdomain. I
notice that the last post on this topic is almost exactly a year old. I
also noticed that last commits to github for this project (https://github.com/utdream/Lucee4cPanel)

are *four years old* (ugh). Is there any hope of getting this up and

working anytime soon? I'd volunteer to help work on Lucee4cPanel myself,
but I'm afraid I don't know enough.

Cheers,
Chris

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 3:17:26 AM UTC-5, Tom Chiverton wrote:
>
> On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 6:57:29 PM UTC+1, Jordan Michaels wrote:
>>
>> The sites created under the main site are all owned by the same user, so
>> it's not a security issue, just a pain for Tomcat contexts because of the
>> nesting.
>>
>>
> Sure it might be? I can get the WEB-INF for a different site from
> sitea.com/siteb.com/WEB-INF
> and I bet it isn't protected by most IP restrictions for things like the
> Lucee admin either, because they expect to be in '/lucee-admin' not '/
> siteb.com/lucee-admin', but I've not looked at it extensively.
>
> I'd want to try it more, but it looks like standing up a stand-alone
> cPanel is going to take longer than I have.
>
> Tom
>

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[Chris Jordan]

Well c'mon man, hope to it! Just kidding. ;)

I really hope this is able to get done sometime, as I do think it would make offering CFML hosting more attractive to companies who already host PHP and other languages. 

Also, really if there's anything I can do to help the cause, let me know. I'm a developer, but I've never even looked at the code for cPanel. I suppose I could look at what's already in the repo, and see if I can make heads or tails of it. 

Cheers, Jordan!

Chris

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