Winery Automation

[ryanprel]

I'm working on an automation project and I've done a large assessment of all the viable automation options I can find.  I currently use the mFI system by Ubiquiti but they are EOL'ing that system.  That worked pretty well for my main automation goal - controlling and graphing the temperature of the wine in a tank.  There's a thermometer probe in a thermowell in each tank which connects up to one of mFi's MPort's and is wireless from there to the network.  There is a solenoid valve (the valves I current have are 110 AC but 24V DC and 12V DC valves are available as well) that is plugged into an MPower power strip controlling the flow of chilled glycol/water into the jacket around each tank.  When the wine warms up too much during fermentation, the power strip outlet opens the solenoid valve leaves it open until the temperature gets down to a set lower temperature.  

This is all graphed and monitored on-site and remotely with the data stored indefinitely.  There are about 15 tanks that get temp controlled and that may increase over time.  The tanks are all along 80' or so of wall space and this is next to a separate room that could store a Loxone cabinet.  

I have a few questions about using Loxone for this type of setup:

How granular is the storage of data and how long is the data kept and where?

Can the Miniserver be in one cabinet and a relay extension controlling the solenoid valves in another cabinet 20' away (I think so but just want to make sure if that may or may not be a good option)?

What components should I be using and with what protocols?  There are so many different options and I'm just not sure what direction to go with both the temperature side and the solenoid valve side of the equation.  

Can the Temperature Sensor Air's be used outdoor (maybe changing the enclosure)?  I'd like to use a series of those throughout the vineyard at different heights and different locations to monitor the differences in temperature.  

This is obviously just the start of the potential for automation.  With a Loxone system in place, I'll definitely be trying to do a lot more than just this with wine and also with the rest of the facility.

Thoughts on all of this?

[yesimag]

Definitely an interesting project.  I think you'll find loxone will handle this quite elegantly for what you are trying to do.  I've had no personal experience with their liquid temperature sensors, but I know they exist, and I'm sure you can get more scientific grade ones which can also be interfaced.  Data can be logged to a sd card (2gb max) in csv format.  That should give you plenty of data before it fills up unless you have some insane polling rate. If you really thought you were going to fill up the sd card more often than it could be conveniently changed you could use a wifi enabled sd card and dump the data elsewhere with a simple linux server + cron script.  And if you wanted that data to be available in real time, it wouldn't be difficult to send it to a virtual output and have a server somewhere on the network capture data and do with it as you please.

Controlling valves of any standard voltage will be trivial.  Whatever 110v valves you have now will easily work assuming they're full on/full off style.

I wouldn't personally suggest the temperature sensor air, simply because from my experience their air products have pretty dismal range in terms of the scope of a winery.  Is scratching some conduit and running cat5 that prohibitive?  If so maybe you want to just do datalogging with separate miniservers on different parts of the property (possibly solar powered if you don't have power nearby.)  I don't imagine you're going to be doing any time-sensitive automation with this, so the data could be collected once a month or less.  If you needed live communications with extremely remote miniservers you could always do some long-distance point-to-point wireless networks, assuming line of sight is available.

The miniserver and relay extensions can be separated.  If you're talking serious distance you'll want to have a local power supply due to dc voltage drop.  In terms of the com bus, I don't want to quote you on the length because I've heard a few different numbers and have yet to personally test it, but I'm sure 20' won't pose a problem at all.

I think overall loxone isn't a bad choice for what you've got in mind, but if you want stability/reliability, I'd always err on the side of wired communications.  Again we'd need some more details about your physical topography to give specific recommendations. 

Where are you located?  I'm near the California wine country myself.  I can definitely see the value of marketing this to wineries in the area and may be interested in being involved in the project in some capacity if you're nearby.

[ryanprel]

I can run conduit for all the wiring inside the building, that's not a problem at all and what I'm planning on.  The miniserver and relays could be 20ish' apart so that shouldn't cause an issue.  What's the best method of controlling 110v valves? A relay extension?  A third party relay connecting back to Loxone?

It seems that there are plenty of temperature sensors available reasonably priced.  Here's a simple 1-wire 10m sensor: 

http://yourduino.com/sunshop2/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1

What's the best way of connecting up 15-20 different temperature sensors to loxone, all of which are on about 70' of wallspace.  Seems like 1-wire might be a good option but maybe there are other better options?

I have an IT background and only a light working knowledge of electrical.  The wiring for 1-wire confuses me slightly.  Any good practical tutorials out there that cover the basics?

The outdoor air sensors are more for outdoor temperature monitoring throughout the vineyard.  I'm looking for something that's weatherproof, has a built-in power source and can transmit data wirelessly to Loxone.  

I'm located in Wisconsin, so nowhere near traditional wine country but this is technology that would definitely be applicable to many of the 4,000 wineries that are in California.  That being said, you can certainly be involved in planning this regardless of the distance.

[Duncan]

how big/powerful are your valves? presumably they dont take much power, in which case the relay outputs of loxone should be ok for the valves, else use coupling relays controlled by the loxone relay outputs if you need to switch a high current. an alternative is to use a dmx extension and dmx relays

once you need multiple temperature sensors then 1-wire is the cheapests and simplest.

1-wire is a simple serial bus with 3 wires, usually cabled using 3 cores of the 8 in a network cable - in theory it can be around 500m if used as a single long chain - see
https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/148

for long reliable 1-wire you need to use actively powered devices not parasitic ones.

dont buy 1-wire devices with long cables, as this forms stubs on the side of the chain connecting the devices - use temperature sensors with short wires around 30cm or less and attached these to a single strand of cat5/6/7 cable going from the loxone 1-wire extension past each sensor until it reaches the last device, and ignore the loxone web site advice to star wire them, which is the most unreliable possible way to set up a 1-wire network.

if your vineyard outside temp sensors are over a very long range, then using a directional wifi network with devices such as the pokeys io board would work well - the pokeys boards connect to a number of 1-wire sensors, then the pokeys boards are read by loxone over a network, but you would need a local power supply for the pokeys, wifi interface etc

[yesimag]

Ya I actually google stalked you and found your winery.  Cool project you've got going there, seems like you've got a lot of local support.  Here you can throw a rock and hit 3 wineries without even trying so its harder to gain public support.  But I'd definitely be down to you offer you whatever help I can give.  I've been in the electrical world for some time, comp/sci in college, but I'm rather new to loxone.  That said I'm growing more knowledgeable and comfortable with it every day.  When you get further along with your project maybe we can put together a case study I can show to prospective wineries when I attempt to sell them on the system.  The advise Duncan recommended all seems logical, and it appears he has more experience with collecting sensor data than myself.  I'd say just order up a miniserver and a few peripherals and start tinkering around.  I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything with better flexibility+software for the price.  A lot of the other consumer automation gear tries to dumb it down for us sparkys, which comes at the cost of flexibility.  This means you'll have to write a lot of intermediary to do the same things which are built into the loxone config software.

[ryanprel]

These are the valves:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=2WJ16015N

The model number has a 2W in it but that's the only possible reference I can find to power draw.  

With the 1-wire, what's the best way of connecting all the wires onto the bus.  I understand the idea of a bus but how do you connect the wires together?

Something like these 1-wire hubs?  

http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/OW-RTD4W--1-Wire-Interface-for-4-Wire-RTD_p_165.html

http://www.hw-group.com/products/sensors/1-Wire_HUB_power_en.html

The tanks I'd be monitoring are each about 5'-10' apart from one thermowell to the next.

[Duncan]

no you shouldnt use hubs with loxone 1-wire - the 1-wire sensors need to be connected to the bus (like  a spine) in a linear way, using either soldered joints (best) or any electrical connector for low power signal

as an example i have used jst plugs/sockets such as

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-Pairs-3-Pin-JST-Connector-Female-Male-3PIN-plug-and-socket-with-wire-red-green/32318721787.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.75.2yLM9L&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10037_10017_507_10032_401,searchweb201603_6&btsid=0172a137-0b2d-4ac1-903f-d5437dfd3f85
 to enable individual sensors to be added/removed/swapped out without having to unsolder things from the bus made from cat5 cable -

you can crimp, solder, use gel connectors or whatever takes your fancy
eg http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Hot-50-Pieces-Yellow-Button-Gel-Filled-Phone-Wire-Butt-Splice-UY-Connector-2-Port/32264680802.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.dnYsIR&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10037_10017_507_10032_401,searchweb201603_6&btsid=613fc9b6-c494-4b46-b1f1-a40c97187a01

[Andrew B]

I would recommend the embedded data systems 1-wire to Ethernet interface. It gives you three independent, powered 1-wire buses supporting up to 22 sensors. I wrote a loxone picoC script to poll the EDS every so often (20s currently), parse the xml and set the values of virtual inputs in the loxone. For the past week and a half I've been running with loxone logging turned on and it seems to be working well. I've had the EDS and miniserver running together for six months. Can download the stats easily, and the web/phone interfaces give simple history plots built in.

I have had nothing but problems with the loxone 1-wire extension despite trying extensively and buying two (one seems fried, the other I haven't gotten it to read a single sensor yet). If you need more than 22 sensors, it is trivial to buy as many EDS boxes as you need and my loxone code could be very easily extended to poll all of them. Could probably handle 100 of them without breaking a sweat, at least with polling slower than 1 Hz. My sensors all have 2 rj45 ports which makes daisy chaining with cat5/cat6 trivial. I also have a single hub at the end of one chain to which I've attached six 3m waterproof sensors. Works fine... reliability isn't perfect but more than good enough for my uses. The main thing is don't try running parasitically -- you want to supply gnd, 5v and signal lines to all your sensors. Easy with EDS and they give you a nice web interface that lets you see your voltages and health levels.