Controlling lights with Loxone Air: do I need a DMX extension?

[Rodolfo Grave]

Hi.

I'm trying to determine what components do I need to have 10 independent LED lighting zones in my house in all Loxone "flavours": Star Wired, Tree and Air.

So far I understand that since there is no DMX Extension or RGBW LED Dimmer DMX for Tree, there really is no difference between those two as far as light control is concerned, and that I need:

• 1 DMX Extension, which supports up to 20 zones
• 10 RGBW LED Dimmer DMX, one for each zone, connected back to the DMX Extension

However, I'm not sure what the required setup is for Air because I can't find any DMX Extension Air but only the RGBW 24V Dimmer Air.

Is it the case that I don't need the DMX Extension at all in the Air setup?

It would also be great if someone could confirm my understanding about the wired setup.

Thanks

[Santeri / Finlandia Automation Ltd.]

Hi,

 

for the Air version you only need either of these: MS Go or the Airbase if you have the “normal” Miniserver. One Dimmer can control up to 4 zones if you only use white light zones, if you need RGBW then 1/zone.

So wired version:

MS+DMX+RGBW Dimmer DMX x3/10

 

Wireless:

MS+Airbase+RGBW Dimmer Air x3/10

or

MS Go+RGBM Dimmer Air x3/10

 

Greetings,

 

Santeri

[Rodolfo Grave]

Awesome. Thanks @Santeri!

[Seb Leal-Bennett]

I was looking to do exactly this and can to the same conclusion, but do you also need a transformer pack as well?

On chatting to my electrician he recommended against the low voltage led lights as he is always replacing the transformers. He recommended the GU10 240v led bulbs instead. Based on this I'm looking at the DALI system with the Auroa dimming module (au-datr400), anyone else done this?

[Duncan]

seb,
dc low voltage vs gu10/mains is still a huge issue of debate and it mostly depends on the type of lighting and your budget.

low voltage tends to be for feature, background and colour lighting such as led strips on stairs, under plinths etc
adantage - much better dimming control generally, offers coloured lighting etc, but it uses low voltage high current which might be a wiring issue, and yes transformers are used but these tend to be larger higher powered and centrally located so not so much of a problem reliability wise.

low voltage downlights are expensive and often dont have the same features as gu10, so the beam angle is often too wide, the cri too poor and the light output on the low side

mains dimmable gu10 leds for downlighting are cheap and easy to wire in standard downlight fittings, and the better ones offer a range of beam angles, high cri as high as 95-99% with positive R9 values. they are driven by 240v dimmers such as the loxone dimmer extension, but they generally suffer from poor dimming at the dim end of the range, can have problems with flickering even with the best dimmers, and often require a minimum number of lights/load to work properly with many dimmers

[Seb Leal-Bennett]

Thank you for the info. Been doing some additional research and found https://www.avforums.com/threads/dmx-for-home-lighting.1725237/ think I will look again at DMX and decide if DMX or DALI (have about 4 weeks to make my mind up).

Any recommendations welcome!

[Duncan]

for projects requiring a larger amount of dimming for downlighting the cheapest solution is:

loxone dmx extension
chinese 3 channel trailing edge 240v dmx dimmers - din mounting
dimmable gu10 240v led bulbs

the problems are:
1) the dimmers have a reasonable degree of early failure, but once you have replaced a few early failures then they seem to be pretty reliable - they are so cheap that i keep a few in stock to quickly swap out

http://www.yozop.com/index.php/dmx-triac-dimmer-led-controller-ac90v-240v-3-channels-dmx302.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-dmx302.html?spm=2114.01010208.0.59.K8ceIa&site=glo&SearchText=dmx302&SortType=price_asc&groupsort=1&initiative_id=SB_20160914033043&needQuery=n&isFreeShip=y

2) bulb compatibility is no better or worse than fancy and expensive loxone or knx dimmers - i have compared them all and there isnt much to choose - it comes down to selecting the right combination

3) philips gu10 5.4w work ok - that is they have a cri>90, choices of 2.7k, 3k or 4k, 360-380 lumens, dim to around 30-35% before flickering and are around £8 each
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/led-lamps-and-systems/led-lamps/master-ledspot-mv/productsinfamily

4) feit dimmable gu10 7w from costco dim much better - they go down to barely on at all without flickering, are around £5-6 each, but are only available in 2700k and probably a slightly poorer cri but pretty good for bedrooms, corridors etc where the downlights are only used as background or occasional. i dont use these bulbs in bathrooms and kitchens where 3 or 4k with a higher cri is better
https://www.amazon.co.uk/FEIT-GU10-Replacement-Energy-Saving/dp/B00FTCRVHY

[Seb Leal-Bennett]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Looking at the space available I would rather not run all my upper floor lighting circuits back to a central place (top of the cellar stairs, right in the middle of the house) as I just won't have the room. I see some people recommend the NJD 12 way dimmer and there is a wall mounted version http://www.jpgelectronics.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=41345 that I could put in the loft to power all upstairs circuits. More expensive that the 3ways you recommend, but a lot less wiring. Have you/anyone used one before?

[Duncan]

you are going to have 2 problems with the njd dimmers

1) there arent any actually available
2) its a leading edge dimmer so isnt that happy with many mains voltage led bulbs

if you use them with led dimmable bulbs the dimmers and bulbs tend to buzz a lot, as many lamps flicker and are not happy with leading edge dimming.- some work but most dont work well. ive got 5 of the njd dimmers sitting unused in my store due to bulb buzzing issues

you can mount any dmx dimmer in a distributed way - so for example mount 4 of those cheap chinese trailing edge dimmers in the loft in an enclosure with a power supply feed and dmx cable to control them will give you the same 12 channels as a single njd dimmer block