Distribution Panel for USA

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

Anyone know of a UL listed distribution panel for USA?

[Karl Peterson]

For awhile LOXONE US recommended IBOCO ICB5465 enclosures, or others in that same lineup.

At the time they were being represented as UL listed to loxone, but it was later determined they weren't.

As of about 6 months ago I know they were hunting for a replacement, but I don't know if they ever found one or not.

I'd recommend you call Loxone-US and ask. Please report back here as well.

Personally, while it's not as pretty as a purpose built DIN enclosure, likely the correct way to do this in the US would be to have two cabinets. One non-compliant cabinet such as the IBOCO that handles your mini server and all low voltage extensions.

The second, a UL listed enclosure such as a hubble/wiegmann that you build up with enclosure sub panels, wire duct, din rails and all your high voltage extensions and power supplies. Any control signal wire, or 24v DC feeds that cross between the low voltage control enclosure and the line voltage cabinet would need to be listed for the highest voltage in the system: IE you'd need to run 300 volt jacketed cable for your 24v feed from the high voltage panel to the low voltage panel, and for the signal wire you'd need to use something like Belden 1352A which is a shielded Cat6 that is UL listed for 300V.

This is how I recently did a residential project in the US, where I used a simple wall cabinet for the low voltage stuff, and repurposed a UL-Listed industrial din-mount lighting control panel to hold the loxone HV modules and my 24V power supplies.

Hope this helps.

Karl P

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 8:52:45 PM UTC-5, Karl Peterson wrote:

...

Very helpful - thanks!

I'll ask Loxone US and post any answer I get.

I agree that putting HV in a separate enclosure is the best approach. I'm a noob regarding code - only looking for info to give to my electrician. Which UL ratings are required? UL50, UL67, and maybe UL508A look like candidates.

I've wondered if Loxone Link is optically isolated. I suspect the answer is no since they want grounds tied together across modules. Seems it would be ideal to have optical isolation between LV and HV enclosures. I could build my own if I knew the protocol - I guess I'll hook my scope/logic probe up to it when I get it. Probably RS485.

[Karl Peterson]

I can help you here by way of comparison.

The nearest example of what we are trying to do is Lutron and there control panels, such as the graphik eye or even the larger HWBP‑8D‑* panels.

Those control panels are all listed under 508A, and only 508A, as industrial control panels and enclosed industrial control panels. 

Now, I must admit that If I were to redo my install again I probably wouldn't use the loxone modules for line voltage. Not that there is a problem with them, just that until Loxone has a clean UL solution for the US, it's more trouble than I prefer.

Instead I would use loxone for all my low voltage stuff and all my control logic - but use one (or more) DMX modules hitting an enttec DIN-RDS4 opto-isolated splitter for my lighting.

I would then use Doug Fleenor DMX8DIM to run my 120v line level LED or dimming CFL loads.

I would use ETC SL1210W 12-Channel // 10-Amp dimmer panels for any conventional dimming I needed, and ETC SS-241P relay channels for any simple on/off loads.

That would solve all the listing problems, everything is opto-isolated, and everything is run by DMX which you can use from practically any control system in existence. 

Again, this isn't a dig towards Loxone. I own 8 something modules right now, and it works great. But as I said earlier, I had to actually take a preexisting industrial control panel and retrofit it to hold my line voltage modules. I recognize that this may or may not be a kosher use of the listing, but my inspectors liked the answer and I had no trouble with the install.

As always, YMMV, etc.

- Karl P

[Rustin Jessen]

Is there any chance you have photos of this installation you'd be willing to share?

[Stefan Friedl]

Hey,

we do not have our own panels but we recommend the panels of a Canadian company which produce them for Loxone needs and we also used in our new demo house near Philadelphia. 

They are CFA/UL proofed and fits perfect in the walls. Also different sizes available depending on how big your system will be. 

If you need further information's just get in touch with us directly. Of course we are happy to help.

@Karl we already have the NRTL for our products now. For more information's about that just get in touch with us. 

BR Stefan

stefan...@loxone.com

Phone: 859.554.3147;502

[Karl Peterson]

@Rustin - Sure thing

https://2020services-my.sharepoint.com/personal/karl_2020services_com/_layouts/15/guestaccess.aspx?guestaccesstoken=08dYNG7HuhI4VV762DuSOoylH6Oyk05w3rxnv1ZqJ58%3d&docid=04d27d6c7cdf94e5ca2504c37c890cd96&rev=1

https://2020services-my.sharepoint.com/personal/karl_2020services_com/_layouts/15/guestaccess.aspx?guestaccesstoken=OVOjjE5q7Q%2fA%2bJkFFRKKvGeCPyDZErv1rY9TaqQXXtQ%3d&docid=07bc283c921da44fa85d6aa8efb08e5c3&rev=1

@Stefan - Great to hear! Any information you can publicly say about the panels, who is making them, what the general price range is, etc? I don't see any info on your website about them at all.

[Stefan Friedl]

That's true they are not on our website at the moment as we tested them for a while now and we consider to sell them in the future.

The Price for sure is depending on the size and you can find a picture on our blog about the demo house. Sure if you need further details just write me an mail and I can forward you the contact details. 

BR
Stefan

stefan...@loxone.com

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 9:19:26 AM UTC-5, Karl Peterson wrote:

I would then use Doug Fleenor DMX8DIM to run my 120v line level LED or dimming CFL loads.

Any opinion on Doug Fleenor DMX12DIM-ELV? Seems to essentially be a 12 channel version although it is mosfet instead of triac so it can do either leading or trailing edge. Would be more future-proof in case a load behaves better with trailing edge. Only 100W per channel but plenty for LED.

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

I’ve lived in new house for about a month now. I have 4 of these DMX12DIM-ELV dimmer panels, each about 3/4 populated at this point. Most of our fixtures are Eaton Halo recessed ML56 series 900 lumen 2700K and a few 1200 lumen. Also some ML4 series.

Everything is working absolutely perfectly. Nice (typical) color; bright; smooth dimming. Like most luminaries they won’t initially light up below about 15% but will stay lit down a few % once lit.

I can recommend this setup as a good solution.

[Skarsol]

I'm also using 3 of the DMX12DIM-ELV along with 2 of the DMX8DIM with great success for almost a year now. Electrician managed to blow a few of the fuses on install, but no big deal. Using Nora LEDs for the recessed lights, random Home Depot ceiling pucks for the closets and such. 13% seems to be the magic number for getting turn on for me. I'm running them with inline UPS and that's worked great during power outages since I can run them fairly dim.

[Brad]

So I've recently been told by my local building authority that I can't use a distribution panel that isn't listed by a North American testing agency. This rules out the future automation lxn5 that I was planning on using two of for my install won't work unless they become UL listed in short order. The shocker automation panel that loxone USA recommended doesn't come in configurations that will accommodate my system neatly when considering the other din mounted components that I plan on using eventually. Does anyone have any recommendations on other panels to look at for the US market?

[Skarsol]

Deleted my previous post because I realized that the company I was recommending has apparently re-branded as "Shocker Automation" which you've already discounted. I can recommend them though if you can make it fit. I'm a little surprised they couldn't make it work for you as they had a good number of sizes and seemed open to custom work.