Rechargeable wireless roller blinds to integrate with Loxone

[Simon Still]

We self built the house and some things got value engineered, and some got 'time engineered' - there were things I wanted to put in the prep for and in the end didn't  (ran out of time and energy to drill though a steel beam!)

So I've got a few places where I have manual roller blinds that I'd really like to automate now.

I've been told there are now 'battery' wireless blinds that only need charging a couple of times each year (which means they should get through the whole of the summer shading season.   Has anyone used any and integrated with Loxone?  I've so far avoiding having to run any intermediate gateways so big preference for that continuing. 

[TomM]

Somfy RTS based roller blind motors with battery power (8xAA batteries, change once a year roughly).  [~£100 per blind]

Then use a Tahoma interface [~£200] connected via FHEM + Loxberry

OR 

Grab a standard Somfy remote control per blind or group of blinds [~£30] and solder wires to it which connect to a relay and thus integrate with loxone (remote requires a new battery every few years).  Range on those remotes is quite surprising and avoids all 3rd party integrations.

Good luck!

[Simon Still]

now I like that solution - hard wire a remote to Loxone!

It looks like Luxaflex now have a battery powered, wireless, option and it has a Loxone interface. of sorts.

"In addition, from version 12 of config due for release soon there will also be native integration of Luxaflex blinds. You don’t have the ability of granular control of the blinds but can recall scenes set within the Luxaflex Powerview hub and app.
"

[Simon Still]

https://www.crosbyblinds.co.uk/resources/uploads/files/Powerview%20Retail%20Sept%202017.pdf

£200 for the hub.  

£131 per blind for the motor (which took 12 AA batteries, though there seems to be a Li-Ion option now) 

[Rob Lynes]

You might want to have a look at the bond hub, normally about 80-£100 http commands from loxone to bond hub and you have to read in your blinds to the hub. Works well with somfy RTS.

[TomM]

Re the Bond hub - any ideas where to buy it in the UK?  Bond won't ship direct to the UK, there appears to be a UK based trade only distributor and all ebay listings won't ship to the UK but no direct UK supplier.

Of course, I will contact the distributor but wondered if anyone had a quick link to a B2C supplier.

[Simon Still]

this is interesting - Bond Hub also replaces a Loxone IR unit as it will learn IR as well as 2.4Ghz radio remotes.  Put it in the right place and could use it for things other than just your blinds though it's a shame it doesn't have an IR out socket for a remote blaster (though you could probably wire one into it yourself) 

https://www.jaci.com.au/blogs/smart-home-automation/bond-bridge-pro-v-bond-bridge-which-tech-is-right-for-you

[morning_call]

Just installed Luxaflex roller blinds in the house with the rechargeable motor blind. These run on the Neo Smart Blind Controller -  Smart Controller | Integrations (neosmartblinds.com)

Although they have a number of integrations Loxone is not one of them.  They are however controllable with HTTP or TCP commands and they have provided the protocols for these when I enquired, attached.

We are based in Ireland but looking at the luxaflex UK site it would appear they have the powerview hub as standard so the template already exists for Loxone.

Have implemented the Luxaflex/Neo blinds and have these controlled with a zigbee 4-way switch with inputs through node-red into Loxone as a test with no problems.

Don't have a price for the individual motors and hub from Neo but it is another option.

[Simon Still]

thanks - do you know if the motors are retrofittable to existing blinds?

Also  - any idea why they'd use a different smart hub for control in Ireland to UK? that seems odd

[morning_call]

As long as the existing blinds can take a tubular motor I do not see why not, there are a few different motor options available re-chargable and wired.

No idea why the different version for Ireland and didn't know there was another option until we got them. If I could not have gotten the Neo working with Loxone I may have followed up on it. As we have a Gen1 server It would have meant getting the Gen2 in order to get the powerview working so this suits our needs.

[Simon Still]

I'd not realised that the Powerview integration required the gen 2 hub. damn.

[Simon Still]

Bump on this thread as I'm thinking about it again...

Somfy seem to now have their own proprietary smart home system "Compatible with Somfy wireless technologies io & RTS | Zigbee 3.0 | EnOcean".  which I'm guessing doesn't make it any simpler to integrate.  The RS485 for Loxone is £250 and the Somfy RS485 transmitter another £650 so nearly £1000 which puts it out of the question. 

Did anyone ever source a Bond hub? This place appears to ship to the UK for £166.   https://www.desertcart.co.uk/products/50901922-bond-add-wifi-to-ceiling-fan-fireplace-or-motorized-shades-works-with-alexa-google-home-remote-control-with-app-works-with-iphone-or-android?gclid=CjwKCAiAkp6tBhB5EiwANTCx1BsTHU27nCKka8LRYO_eqycbsVkQ1Bwje4Zb8eKmQF8LmOU7ilEBgBoCDFoQAvD_BwE

That would presumably allow me to 'learn' the older Somfy remotes.  But I'm not clear how that helps integrate to Loxone. 

[duncan]

if somfy is now zigbee compatible  and more importantly zigbee2mqtt - https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/devices/SOMFY-1241752.html

then a cheap integration is a loxberry with zigbee2mqtt plugin, around £100 all in with the option to do lots more for free

[Ian Henderson]

I have managed to run 4 core to all of my windows but may use 24V Somfy blinds via RTS using a Somfy Tahoma hub. The hope is that we can use the API to get Loxone to work with Tahoma. This would then also connect to our Velux Windows and possible additional devices. 

[Simon Still]

I've resisted setting up a Loxberry up to now but this might be the final straw but it looks like it would be by far the cheapest solution here.   My Linux skills are rusty to non-existent so it's going to be a learning curve.

Do I need a Somfy hub and then Loxberrry talks to the hub or would it be connecting Somfy devices direct to Loxberry?

[Simon Still]

You've not started yet?   
So that would mean programming in Loxone with it talking to the Somfy hub? (so no Linux/Loxberry required but lots of API programming in Loxone) 

It does look like there are lots of options for Somfy.  
Theres a dry contact RTS transmitter purpose built for integration with HA systems (would need 2 relays per blind plus one of these - https://thehomeofinteriors.co.uk/product/somfy-dry-contact-rts-transmitter/).  but a software integration should be the cheapest. 

[Jonathan Dixon]

>  I've resisted setting up a Loxberry up to now but this might be the final straw but it looks like it would be by far the cheapest solution here.   

I'm not sure it will help in this case. You mention the Somfy hub / ecosystem is "Compatible with Somfy wireless technologies io & RTS | Zigbee 3.0 | EnOcean"

however, it's not established that the Somfy  motors themselves are compatible with Zigbee??

i.e. Loxberry may be worth it if going

MS -> tcp-> Loxberry -> mqtt -> zigbee -> Somfy Motor

But I'd say it's a non-starter if the idea is:

MS -> tcp -> Loxberry -> mqtt -> zigbee -> Somfy Hub -> RTS -> Somfy Motor

As you then have 2 wireless protocols in series talking to one blind. Guaranteed nightmare.

You might also consider

MS -> tcp -> Home Assistant -> Somfy Connexoon RTS -> RTS -> Somfy Motor

The Somfy Connexoon RTS actually looks pretty good value for money, fwiw

(Per Ian Henderson maybe you can get MS to talk directly to Somfy Hub  via the Local API, but it looks quite complex to use from a brief skim of  https://github.com/Somfy-Developer/Somfy-TaHoma-Developer-Mode )

HTH!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/8c1edf9f-5081-497d-8394-0bef76472219n%40googlegroups.com.

[Simon Still]

The more I'm looking at Somfy stuff online the more confused I'm getting.

I think - please correct me if I'm wrong. - that 

Motor

- Somfy wireless motors use their proprietary RTS wireless control system  (ie nothing is connecting to the motor without a Somfy controller somewhere(

They also seem to have a 'io home control' system which has two way comms (ie would report actual blind postion) but I can't find any motors that actually use the tech??

Controllers

1) simple remote  (completely manual) from about £10. (could solder to relays) 

2) dry contact RTS transmitter  (could integrate via relays) 

3) RS485 radio transmitter. about £600.  Also need the Loxone unit = another £250

4) Somfy smart hubs (superseded - old stock only) 

US - Somfy Mylink https://store.somfysystems.com/products/app-voice-control/somfy-my-link.html

RoW - Somfy Conexxoon https://www.somfy.co.uk/products/1811592/somfy-connexoon-rts

5) Somfy smart hubs (current) - 

- Tahoma  'switch' is about £180  https://shop.somfy.co.uk/somfy-tahoma-switch/

Technology: io-homecontrol, RTS and Zigbee 3.0

max products

io-homecontrol: 200 pcs
RTS: 50 pcs
Zigbee: 50 pcs
Sensors / alarm sensors (Somfy): 50 pcs
Cameras: 5 pcs
Maximum number of scenes: 40 x Manual Scenes / 20 x Scheduled Scenes / 20 x Advanced Scenes
Philips Hue: 1 Bridge (gateway) 50 Hue products

- Tahoma  'mini' connectivity kit from about £60. https://shop.somfy.co.uk/somfy-connectivity-kit/

Technology: io-homecontrol & RTS

No compatibilities with sensors, security and heating systems
No timer feature: only manual scenes available in the app (20 max)
No partner compatibilities (except Velux io products)

So this one looks like a stripped down processor unit that's not as powerful. 

Their switch is cheap enough but I can't find much about its newly open API - presumably someone *could* do the hard work of integrating it to Loxone and share it?

[duncan]

https://asset.somfy.com/Document/c2c8f7f2-d075-4af7-9b57-544cc97da65c_5157264_Sonesse%20ULTRA%2030%20WF%20Zigbee%20Li-ion.pdf

this somfy motor is rechargable and talks zigbee directly to a zigbee hub (could be theirs) and zigbee2mqtt / loxberry / mqtt to loxone

this would seem to be the simplest and cheapest way of getting loxone control of blinds

[Simon Still]

The Zigbee motors are in the US 2023 catalogue but I can't find any reference to them on the UK site, or see them for sale anywhere.

Will make some enquiries. Or see if there are any other options - there seem to be some Matter blinds now which should eventually mean no Loxberry 

[Tico]

I'm running a Bond Bridge Pro with direct link to Loxone. Here's a link explaining how they're controlled via Virtual Outputs -

https://forum.bondhome.io/t/loxone-integration/2532/5

Bond Bridge Pro is advertised at $379USD. A Bond Bridge would likely be sufficient at $119USD.