Signs/how SD cards fail in Loxone, estimated life

[Simon Still]

So my upgrade to 11 didn't go smoothly....it seems to have killed my SD card.   

Switches on wall still working but orange light on miniserver, can't connect from iOS app (cannot load structure file).  I've written another card from backup but also trying to write to the card that's seemed to be corrupt.  

MacOS will erase and format it, and will happily write 4gb of music to the card, but when Loxone Config tries to write it gives a 'insufficient access rights or no SD card' error.  

- Why would Loxone fail with this card while MacOS is fine

- what's the expected life of a card?

- why would an upgrade kill it?

[Simon Still]

and final question, does anyone have the name of the idiot who designed and the idiot who signed off on the mini server having the micro SD card in an inaccessible slot on the side that requires opening the wiring cab case, possibly moving another part and then it still being possible to lose the card inside the case of the mini server.

FFS - its the ONLY consumable on the unit - it should be replaceable by an end user without needing a screwdriver....

[Duncan]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R2.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xmicro+sd+extende.TRS0&_nkw=micro+sd+card+extender&_sacat=0

over the years ive found sd cards can easily corrupt the s (secure) bit and become unusable during a write - theres no going back, only replace, unfortunately

i keep a backup card with an older but working version sitting by the cabinet and periodically upgrade it to the current version, a quick swap using a card extension gets things up and running in a couple of minutes

card life is very brand variable - my loxone card died very early on, but my blue lexar 633x cards have had thousands of development rewrites and loads of logging without any issues at all (5 years so far)

[Simon Still]

thanks, an extension has been on my todo list for a long while. 

2 cards and an extension bought...

[Rob_in]

On Friday, 8 May 2020 21:15:06 UTC+2, Simon Still wrote:

and final question, does anyone have the name of the idiot who designed and the idiot who signed off on the mini server having the micro SD card in an inaccessible slot on the side that requires opening the wiring cab case, possibly moving another part and then it still being possible to lose the card inside the case of the mini server.

FFS - its the ONLY consumable on the unit - it should be replaceable by an end user without needing a screwdriver....

Yes, stupid design decision. Our Miniserver is installed in the left most position on the DIN rail for this very reason (cabinet extends beyond the rail so slot is accessible).

If you feel the need, this is a neat extender in a DIN rail mount...

http://www.paluxtronic.com/loxone-sd-karten-adapter.html 

... or you could just buy a generic micro SD extender & DIN rail box from AliExpress for a couple of bucks and hot glue the extender in the box ;)

Robin

[Simon Still]

Yes, stupid design decision. Our Miniserver is installed in the left most position on the DIN rail for this very reason (cabinet extends beyond the rail so slot is accessible).

Mine is at the left most position, but still need to take cover off cabinet, move the end block that keeps the MS in position and use something to lever the card out.  Then miss the slot inserting the replacement and lose the card inside the MS, take MS out of cabinet and lever open it's case!  

 

If you feel the need, this is a neat extender in a DIN rail mount...

http://www.paluxtronic.com/loxone-sd-karten-adapter.html 

19chf is fine but don't seem to offer shipping to UK and charge another 19 to ship in Switzerland!  

[Simon Still]

one last question -- where does Loxone config store SD card backups?  I can't them it in the folders that it writes the config files too.  I wanted to keep a cloud backup of the SD card so its' recoverable if I lose the laptop.

[Rob]

In the Loxone documention it states:

LOCATION

The backup is stored locally on your PC in the following location: C:\Users\User\Documents\Loxone\Loxone Config\Backups\Backup_10.7.7.134_20170321145623_08030321

In the file name the IP address is seen (10.7.7.134), the date and time (2017.03.21 14:56:23) and the version number (8.3.03.21).

[Rob]

The new Gen2 Miniserver has the SD card slot at the top which is definitely an improvement although as a "consumable" item it would make more sense to have it on the front so you don't have to take off the cover of the panel.

If you had a 3D printer you could do this

[Tico]

"but when Loxone Config tries to write it gives a 'insufficient access rights or no SD card' error."

Have you also tried running Loxone Config as an Administrator?

I have the shortcut to Config permanently set to 'Run this program as an administrator'. It's causes one extra click to launch, but solves problems when formating.

[ErlendVK]

I already have a backup SD card straight from Loxone. I've had it for several years now, so I guess an SD card failure is likely to happen sooner than later.
Question: how can I make a backup of my most recent program on the miniserver (v1) straight to that backup SD card, so that I, in case of failure, just need to swap cards? In essence, I want to clone the original card, but without removing it from the miniserver, because that would be a pain. OR write the program from Loxone config to that backup card instead of the miniserver.

How do I do that?

Cheers!

[Chris Pitman]

You can write direct to the sd card in a pc via config, dose not need to be in mini server.

My loxone card failed actually locked they have a hardware limit on writes when reached you can read but no longer write data. So if you have stats logging it will shorten life of cards. The standard cards are nothing special, I replaced mine with a industrial card they use single layer much more reliable than the cheaper multi layer cards, and hence are 3 or 4x the cost.

[ErlendVK]

This is good to know!  Obvious question of course : how do I do this?  I only see a "backup SD card" option in the menus.  When I click this, it indeed starts backing up, but I have no idea where to?  And how can I restore one of these backups? 

Edit : I have since found where it is stored : C:\Users\User\Documents\Loxone\Loxone Config\Backups\   Is it now a question of simply copying the content of this folder to a backup SD card, and then I'll have a working SD card which the miniserver can boot from?

Or is there is more simple way of doing this, eg. simply saving to a microSD card that is plugged into my pc?  If so, how do I do this?

Cheers!

Op zondag 10 mei 2020 09:36:18 UTC+2 schreef Chris Pitman:

[Duncan]

open loxone config

click on the sd card in your tree

click on format sd on the top ribbon (right most icon)

from the selection box, select your target micro sd card drive, and the backup file which will be written to it

sit back and watch

thats it

[ErlendVK]

Excellent stuff Duncan! Cheers!

[ErlendVK]

I've now done exactly this, and ended up with a microSD with only one file on it : LOXONE1.FS   Is this normal? Also, there is a drop down menu in that SD card format menu in which I can select my miniserver. Is this necessary and for what purpose?

Cheers!

Op zondag 10 mei 2020 20:50:48 UTC+2 schreef Duncan:

[Duncan]

im assuming if you select the miniserver instead of a backup then it loads the new card with whats already on the miniserver....

i formatted a 32gb card and have a number of 4gb files loxone1.fs to loxone 8.fs so it seems to be correct

[ErlendVK]

Op maandag 11 mei 2020 12:47:03 UTC+2 schreef Duncan:

im assuming if you select the miniserver instead of a backup then it loads the new card with whats already on the miniserver....

I've no idea.  You can do both, which seems a bit strange.  But it works, so...

 

i formatted a 32gb card and have a number of 4gb files loxone1.fs to loxone 8.fs so it seems to be correct

Ok, that's reassuring.  Cheers for the feedback Duncan!

[Tomasz Nowak]

I do backup of all Miniserver data automatically every single night using LoxBerry and its Miniserver backup plugin.

Each backup contains stats data, etc. and it goes to my Synology NAS where I always keep last 30 backups.

See attached screenshots.

The card has never failed me so far.

I'm using Sandisk Industrial microSD 8GB cards (white).

I've bought them from Ebay UK for ~9 EUR each as far as I remember.

Not sure about this, but I believe 8GB is better then 4GB because [writeable] sectors over-provisioning.

Anyway I do a LOT config changes (over 4500 so far), have most probably >50 blocks with remanence flag and write about 30-40 data statistics (some 1 hour avarage, some even each change, ie: heating valve position).

No problems so far whatsoever.

Sdtest shows I've used 1% of card life.

As for card adapter, see also:

https://www.allroundbastler.de/produkt/sd-karten-hutschienengehaeuse/

[Simon Still]

On Monday, 11 May 2020 11:47:03 UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

i formatted a 32gb card and have a number of 4gb files loxone1.fs to loxone 8.fs so it seems to be correct

 

With what purpose?