CCT downlights

[Andras Gaal]

Hi,

I am looking for downlights which can be color temperature regulated with Loxone. I have only found wifi controllable products which I would be reluctant to use (would prefer a wired solution).

My questions:

- are these CCT tunable lights just two channel leds that I could drive with a DMX driver and throw away the in-box driver? (similar to RGB+W+WW led stripes)

- if i choose to go the wifi route, how easy is it to wire it up to loxone?

- any other thoughts?

Thanks

[Rob_in]

Hi,

I was originally considering tune-able lights, but ultimately decided didn't want to pay for twice the number of controllers. Of course a 4 channel controller can drive 1 x RGBW or 2 x tune-able or 4 x single colour.

However, if it helps, I found these when looking:

https://www.exklusivleuchten.de/deckeneinbauleuchte-kapegoled-cob-68-cct-aluminium-weiss-8-00-w.html

https://www.exklusivleuchten.de/kapego-led-panel-2700-6000k-led-8w-weiss-24v-dc.html

That store has more options.

FWIW, we ended up with the 60 degree 3300K COBs from Voltus and are very happy with them.

In regard to your other points: I would steer clear of anything wireless, and particularly WiFi unless you absolutely have no other option. I imagine any off the shelf lights that come with drivers designed for 240v could be problematic to integrate - you'd have to look at each individually.

HTH,

Robin

[Andras Gaal]

Thanks!

I am more wondering what signal comes out of these cheap wifi enabled drivers. I have a suspicion they are in realty plain ordinary two channel controllers emitting 12/24v pwm. If this was true, I could replace them with a DMX controller and just drive them from Loxone as two separate channels. Using a formula block maybe even going further and use the lightning controllers output as brightness and a centrally controlled daylight/outside light driven color temperature value.

[Dries Bex]

Hi Robin, 

Are you using these Voltus lights with the 24V RGBW tree dimmers?

KR 

Dries

Op zondag 11 februari 2018 09:05:34 UTC+1 schreef Rob_in:

[Rob_in]

Hi,

No, I decided not to buy any tree devices because it's a propitiatory  Loxone protocol. Much better to stick to standards supported by multiple manufacturers.

I'm using EldoLED LINEARdrive 180D dimmers.

On this topic, I notice Voltus now sell tuneable white and RGBW spots in the same design.

Robin

[Dries Bex]

Ok, clear.

I decided to go for the tree dimmer since they would be located in my electrical cabinet and if I would decide to change, no wiring should be redone.

Anyway, reason why I ask is because I want to find out if the constaled spots from Voltus work with these dimmers.

I wanted to order one to try but their shipping is €16 to Belgium...

Op vrijdag 31 augustus 2018 08:14:42 UTC+2 schreef Rob_in:

[smartbusinesstools.be]

We will order a bunch of all types of Constaled spots next week to test them with Loxone and other PWM dimmers.

If you want to try them yourself you can order them from us without shipping cost.

[Dries Bex]

Great news!

Last week I did the same and ordered the Loxone spots from you guys to try. 

Let me know when they are available!

Dries

Op zaterdag 1 september 2018 11:18:01 UTC+2 schreef smartbusinesstools.be:

[Andras Gaal]

I have all sorts of Constaled spots from Voltus (2850K 8W, 3300K 6W, CCT 8W) driven with Loxone 24V PWM tree dimmers. Running without issue and any sound. Very happy with them.

Few things that I have noticed:

• Lights switch off below 7% but are very-very dim already when below 10%
• CCT lights have to be driven as "Smart individual channels" and as such don't offer nice UI to set color temperature (essentially you have 2 sliders)
• 2850K 8W lights have the nicest color in my eyes. CCT 8W lights can be set (100% WW + 40% CW) to produce a quite similar color albeit a little bit more green in them.

Cheers,

[David Wallis]

Also Interested in anything that is 24v and available in the UK, without using expensive loxone fittings :)

Dimmer extension is £££..

DMX and Din Raill typically not CE approved.. 

Pruchasing a new house that is going to be a complete re-fit so need to decide - obviously some fittings wont warrant 24v bulbs - and some rooms dont warrant dimming.

Dali, DMX, 0-10v, Tree.. so many choices!

[Rob_in]

Hi,

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 14:59:53 UTC+2, David Wallis wrote:

DMX and Din Raill typically not CE approved.. 

All our gear has 'CE' stuff written all over it and in fact I demanded CE certificates from every manufacturer used in our build. Loxone, the DMX Extension, EldoLED dimmers. It's very important all over Europe so you shouldn't have an issue finding CE stuff.

Pruchasing a new house that is going to be a complete re-fit so need to decide - obviously some fittings wont warrant 24v bulbs - and some rooms dont warrant dimming.

We built from new and the plan was to put DMX dimmers in the electrical cabinet to send output to LEDs. We use the ConstaLED luminaires from Voltus. These are wired with 5 core 1.5mm2 shielded cable (max cable run < 10m). The number of cores means one can change the LEDs to RGBW or tunable white in the future (with addition of more drivers of course) - ConstaLED have these now but didn't when we ordered. You can also run straight 240v down that cable if we so wish in the future (although I can't imagine why we'd switch to any 240v lighting).

Dimming at the 240v level is just silly when all modern luminaires are LED at much lower voltages so forget about that. As you have noticed 240v dimmers are also expensive. If you want dimmable lights I can recommend the EldoLED/Constaled combination - it's very nice. The EldoLED 180D are around 18EUR a circuit and the Constaled luminaires currently around 26 each. This isn't super cheap, but I thought it was OK.

The cheapest 240v on/off relays I could find were the KMTronic Modbus ones - around 5-6EUR a circuit. You can get cheap 240v downlights for a few EUR each inc. driver. No doubt this is the most cost effective way to do your lighting but no dimming.

If you are considering RGBW LED strips to compliment spots, check out individual addressable (IA) ones - if I was going for something RGBW would certainly use IA ones now - although Loxone probably won't catch up with this tech for some time (I'd use an Arduino/Pi driven from a Loxone scene output).

HTH,

Robin

[David Wallis]

Hi Robin, 

With regards to the lack of CE approval on the Din rail DMX - I was referring more to the ebay / aliexpress variants.. 

Some of my cable runs may be getting to circa 30m (Need to get plans from the architect to look at where I can place the electrical consumer unit and loxone panel.. as the current location is behind a kitchen cupboard :o  so needs to move anyway!

I know what you mean about the addressable strip - I already have three 24v strips - that are natively driven so may just use these with tree dimmers as the cost isnt too bad.

Ill have a look at the ConstaLed and see if they are available in the uk.

I've been put of the modbus approach when it says about delays - However I have a couple of contacts and schnider and abb so looking at knx dimmer / relays

[Rob_in]

On Friday, 14 September 2018 10:17:01 UTC+2, David Wallis wrote:

I know what you mean about the addressable strip - I already have three 24v strips - that are natively driven so may just use these with tree dimmers as the cost isnt too bad.

Personally I'd stay away from Tree as it's a propriety Loxone protocol. I like KNX but DMX seems the cheaper option for lighting.

 

Ill have a look at the ConstaLed and see if they are available in the uk.

Just mail order them :)

 

I've been put of the modbus approach when it says about delays - However I have a couple of contacts and schnider and abb so looking at knx dimmer / relays

There's zero delay with Modbus outputs. It's the inputs that have to be polled where you see a delay. I'd use KNX if money wasn't a factor as it's a very mature and open standard so it's good to consider that. Shop around for pricing as there are large differences even in the same device branded differently.

Cheers,

Robin

[Dries Bex]

Do you already have them available in store?

KR

Dries

Op zaterdag 1 september 2018 11:18:01 UTC+2 schreef smartbusinesstools.be:

We will order a bunch of all types of Constaled spots next week to test them with Loxone and other PWM dimmers.

[Andras Gaal]

Reporting back on this thread. One of my 25 degree 6W 2850K ones started flickering and needs replacement.

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:25:03 PM UTC+2, Andras Gaal wrote:

I have all sorts of Constaled spots from Voltus (2850K 8W, 3300K 6W, CCT 8W) driven with Loxone 24V PWM tree dimmers. Running without issue and any sound. Very happy with them.

[Fabrizio Falca]

Dear Andras,

after how much time did u notice the flicker? Does it flicker at 100% or under a certain dim value ?

I'm also going to get some Voltus/Constaled & Loxone Tree Dimmer... J 

Il giorno mar 2 ott 2018 alle ore 13:52 Andras Gaal <andra...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

Reporting back on this thread. One of my 25 degree 6W 2850K ones started flickering.

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:25:03 PM UTC+2, Andras Gaal wrote:

I have all sorts of Constaled spots from Voltus (2850K 8W, 3300K 6W, CCT 8W) driven with Loxone 24V PWM tree dimmers. Running without issue and any sound. Very happy with them.

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 11:18:01 AM UTC+2, smartbusinesstools.be wrote:

We will order a bunch of all types of Constaled spots next week to test them with Loxone and other PWM dimmers.

If you want to try them yourself you can order them from us without shipping cost.

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[Andras Gaal]

Hi,

It's been in regular use for about a month after it has started flickering. It's actually not even a regular flicker but an occasional (every 3-10 second) increase in brightness for about half a second. I could not connect the effect to any dim value, happens at 100% and at 25% as well. Quite annoying. Just about to get a replacement lamp from voltus. 

No issues with the other 40+ constaled lamps I have.