Integration with other music systems Squeezebox/Logitech/Chromecast/RuneAudio/Volumio etc.

[Rob_in]

Hi all,

Strangely I cannot find this question already asked a million times which I find odd as it must be so common:

Q. What's the best approach to integrate Loxone with other third party music systems?

Having looked at the Loxone Music server it's simply a non-starter for me due to cost. The price of the hardware for what is basically a standard PC with a few extra sound cards is an outrage. I would gladly pay something for the software to run on my own hardware. Given I'm already a Loxone customer (this software would be useless to anyone without a Miniserver?) you would think that should be an option. Surely the Loxone music server (their PC) needs software updates from time to time, has anyone tried downloading this and putting on another machine? :D

That aside, there are many, many choices for alternate systems. I happen to have a couple of Squeezebox devices for example. These are getting a bit long in the tooth but work very well.

There are many newer options available... take your pick. On a budget I really like the look of RPi based stuff like RuneAudio and Volumio combined with an higher quality DAC and/or amp 'hat'. One of my friends loves his Sonos Play speakers.

A ChromeCast would also fit our needs as I have a Google Music subscription. I'm sure there are loads of people using Apple Music, Spottily, etc, etc.

So... all that said:

1. Is it worth trying to integrate these systems with Loxone?

2. What's the easiest way to react to stuff like a doorbell (pause or attenuate playback and play some other alert) for example?

Cheers,

Robin

[Duncan]

hidden carefully inside loxones music server is squeezebox with some custom wrapper.

take a look at musicserver4lox

https://www.loxforum.com/forum/projektforen/musicserver4lox
use chrome to translate

its basically logitech/squeezebox with some software to give feedback to loxone such as volume, whats playing, mode etc and also has facilitites to integrate doorbell, text to speech etc
it also allows you to link idevices so i can play from my phone to a zone, and uses a line-in on the audio to play from my record deck
and it can use chromecast, airplay and dnla (sonos) devices as additional zone players so they all become integrated

it uses cheap usb sound cards to create multiple zones - each can be mono, stereo or more channels, and links in with existing squeezebox hardware

i used a reconditioned i7 dell laptop (ebay £240 with a year warranty)
2 x usb sound card for 16 mono channels (£40)
12 ceiling speakers, 1 per room for 12 zones
a dayton audio multi-channel amp (same as loxones, but 60w/ch rather than 40w)6 stereo channels = 12 mono zones (£500)
9 logitech hardware players (1 boom, 6 radios, 2 duets) - all from ebay around £70 per radio and £70-£100 per duet including hand remotes which are great

and a long press on the kitchen light switch sends a text to speech message to a group of zones to tell everyone to come down for dinner - thats the best bit according to my wife.

the squeezebox server scans my itunes folder every few hours so the whole house has access to all my itunes music and playlists, which i use on a PC for easy music management. It also has a spotify plugin so any user has access to that as well.

[Rob_in]

That looks pretty cool. Thx.

When it comes to audio I'm a bit of a mixture of old school + streaming services + podcasts, etc. Still trying to figure out what would be most useful but I can see some ceiling speakers driven by centrally housed RPi based Squeezeboxes & digital amps would be quite economic and do what I want audio-wise.

That is... everywhere but the lounge...

I have a dilemma of what to do with audio in the lounge because it has to cater for a TV. There should be a better hi-fi sitting here and the TV needs to allow for future options like satellite boxes, video player from local NAS library (Plex or Kodi no doubt), Chromecast and other sources. Most modern TVs have at least 4 HDMI inputs so one can probably leave video source selection to the TV itself. Which leaves one audio output from TV to amp/speakers.

It would be nice to pull out a single remote (your smartphone) and tell the lounge system to play something from the NAS (via a Squeezebox?) or stream from Google Music without having to find a separate remote to make source selections and set the volume.

It would be nice that if I turn the TV on then the system automatically stops any source playing and switches to the TV audio output.

What it appears is required next to the TV then, is a pre-amp with a source selector and volume control that is controlled via a LAN (or an IR remote). Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

It's been many years since I bought any hi-fi gear and have to say, things seem to have become a lot more disorganised since then! ;)

I'm not keen on a Cinema Receiver so not sure what to do about this. Anything more than 2 speakers and maybe a sub - only because that way one can have a smaller stereo pair which is an idea that back in the day I wouldn't entertain but things have moved on a bit ;) - doesn't interest me. Would love to hear suggestions.

Cheers,

Robin

[Duncan]

in my tv room i have a squeezebox duet connected to my av amp, and a logitech duet controller to choose the music

my logitech harmony remote controls the av amp/tv to select 'play music' (av amp on, tv off) - unfortunately the harmony remote cant control a squeezebox despite coming from the same company!

some smart tvs are able to act as a dnla or media player, so that might work too, but a logitech duet outputs at line level and has inbuilt volume controls so that could connect direct to your tv either via an analog av input

[Rob_in]

On Sunday, 12 March 2017 13:02:54 UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

my logitech harmony remote controls the av amp/tv to select 'play music' (av amp on, tv off) - unfortunately the harmony remote cant control a squeezebox despite coming from the same company!

Well... Logitech bought SlimDevices and then killed all their products. Doh! :(

[Rob_in]

On Saturday, 11 March 2017 16:53:41 UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

take a look at musicserver4lox

https://www.loxforum.com/forum/projektforen/musicserver4lox
use chrome to translate

For some reason Chrome refuses to translate the manual here: http://music-server.net/help/ :(

Nevertheless, I have managed to install MS4L and it runs fine.

I can't work out if the Miniserver is supposed to detect this as a Loxone Music Server though. Is it? Because when I use Loxone Config and do a network device search, the Logitech Music Server (LMS) part of it is found but nothing more. You don't seem to be able to add an LMS in Loxone Config, nor does it appear to be possible to manually add a Loxone Music Server using it's IP address for example.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Robin

[Duncan]

no it doesnt detect it as a music server - you have to manually add the functions to loxone using virtual inputs/outputs

so for instance in the kitchen, you create 2 virtual text inputs, one for mode (play/pause etc) and the other 'now playing', a virtual input with a 0-100 for volume (reads current volume) and a virtual output 0-100 to control the volume

you make a note of the ID of each virtual i/o such as VT1 (virtual text 1) and feed these into the ms4l settings for the kitchen zone
you can now add these virtual in/outs to your config, and they will display the relevant data in the config, and read the current volume/update the volume

to add further controls for a lms zone such as play, pause, fforward etc, you manually add a virtual output device and select squeezebox from the device template - the template includes loads of control functions that can be linked to loxones virtual outputs on the interface or via real inputs such as wall buttons linked to the lms virtual outputs. i have a wall switch (mdt smart button II) which includes a play/pause, favourite and volume up/down buttons.
 you now have to configure the virtual output squeezebox device with the IP address of your lms server (will be the same as your ms4l machine) and then set up the mac address of the internal or external zone (can be got from the ms4l interface or from lms . fyou have to have a blank space at the end of the mac address for the 'command to establish connection' otherwise these virtual outputs such as play/pause wont work.

its certainly not as easy as loxones music server, but its a lot cheaper, particularly if you have a requirement for a larger install, and if you already have logitech hardware or buy cheap stuff off ebay it makes a lot of sense. i already had 6 squeezebox radios, a boom and 10 duets from a couple of old installs, so integrating some of these along with inbuilt ceiling speaker stuff makes a lot of sense.

[Simon Still]

On Sunday, 12 March 2017 09:57:26 UTC, Rob_in wrote:

That is... everywhere but the lounge...

I have a dilemma of what to do with audio in the lounge because it has to cater for a TV

I'm not keen on a Cinema Receiver so not sure what to do about this. Anything more than 2 speakers and maybe a sub

Why are you discounting a Cinema Receiver?  They're designed for the job and you don't have to use all the channels.  I've run simple stereo for TV sound and the soundstage is near impossible to get perfect - speech always feels dislocated from screen.  I'd highly recommend using a Cinema amp and 3.1 sound (ie adding a centre speaker).   Then you can locate all your TV sources with the amp and just run a single HDMI cable to your TV.   Some amps will let you use rear/surround channels to power a second audio zone which might work for you.

I use Logitech harmony to control sources and have had them controlling Squeezeboxes in the past (but only IR devices - i'm guessing the Duet are wifi or radio?).   I never actually got hold of a duet but third party iOS apps for Squeezbox were excellent.  Logitech Harmony has an iOS app as well so you can control both music and audio from a phone or iPod touch (if nothing else useful for when the rechargable battery on the Harmony remote goes flat).  

I have one AV amp in the kitchen (a DAB radio enabled Yamaha) and another in the Living room.  Both have Harmony remotes. 

Loxone integration is minimal - all lights off/leaving the house sends an 'off' command to the kitchen amp over IP.  There's also an IFTTT command to harmony but it's has a huge delay (up to an hour I think) so it's OK for 'off' but no use for starting a scene. 

  

 

[Simon Still]

On Saturday, 11 March 2017 15:53:41 UTC, Duncan wrote:

hidden carefully inside loxones music server is squeezebox with some custom wrapper.

take a look at musicserver4lox

https://www.loxforum.com/forum/projektforen/musicserver4lox
use chrome to translate

its basically logitech/squeezebox with some software to give feedback to loxone such as volume, whats playing, mode etc and also has facilitites to integrate doorbell, text to speech etc

That' interesting.  I should never have sold me Squeezboxes (though I see you can build a headless unit cheaply out of a rPi).  Currently have music on my always on iMac acting as server and Apple Airplay inbuilt to my Yamaha amp and using Apple TVs.

That's fine so long as you want the same music everywhere but not good for different music in different rooms (though very very rarely a use case we have - and can be got around with direct airplay from a phone).  Spotify is better than Apple music but will only Airplay to one device at a time.

Gramofon is a potential solution for low cost 'sonos alternative' to connect to existing amps.  

Loxone integration is of course not supported (yet)     

[tkn]

Can I run this as a VM? I am thinking about closeting my media storage onto an Unraid server and would love to use the same machine for zone music.

[tkn]

Seems like Max2Play on Raspberry Pi is another option that can be integrated.

[Paulus]

Hi Duncan, I have just built my ms4lox but I can't control the LMS volume from Loxone, could you clarify what the command should be, I have "03:4d:30:6f:ef:cb: mixer volume <v> \ r" but I think I am missing something fundamental.

Thanks

Paul

On Saturday, 11 March 2017 15:53:41 UTC, Duncan wrote:

[Duncan]

you need to create a virtual output using the ip address of your ms4lox eg

tcp://192.168.0.200:9090
close connection after is ticked

under that virtual output you create virtual output commands for each device and function eg:


virtual player 1 increase volume by 3% for each pulse is
playername mixver volume +3\r

to create a slider that adjusts the volume
add a pushbutton +/- and connect its output to a virtual command under the same virtual output connecter above
playername mixer volume <v>\r
to add feedback from the volume from the musicserver (if you use squeezebox app or a duet remote for instance there will be a disparity between the real volume and your pushbutton +/- above)
create a virtual input in loxone
note the VIxxx number assigned to it in loxone
connect the virtual input to your pushbutton +/- block P input
configure lox4music server to send the zone volume to the save VIxxx address which is used by the virtual input you created above

[Paulus]

Hi Duncan, many thanks for sharing your expertise.

I had most of it working except I couldn't control the volume from the Loxone app.

I deleted my VQ and reconfigured using the name instead of the MAC and now it works!

Thanks again

Paul

[denver]

On the squeezebox radio you have favourite/memory  buttons 1-6, how would you identify these in the 'Command for On' value please.

[Duncan]

ive used an air remote to cycle through the favourites, and a virtual output drives the text to speech to say the name of the favourite.

ive attached images of the virtual outputs for the text to speech and to play the favourites, as saved in lms and also the buttons