Re: Loxone v Sonos & Alexa

[SavvySpaces]

Hi Bill,

There are no stupid questions...

The Audioserver is more than just music, it provides all your sounds too such as security/Smoke/Co2/alarm, doorbell/intercom.

There is no knocking Sonos, it has an amazing app and UI that is unrivalled in the marketplace at the moment. 

Loxone’s offering is different and there are many houses with both, clever planning and installation mean you can start with and throughly test Loxone’s offering safe in the knowledge that if you do move to sonos later for personal preferences the loxone kit will still be doing a host of other services in the automation setup, nothing lost or wasted. 

Keep the Audioserver out of the loxone panel, preferably in a 19” din rack enclosure in the main rack and you are free to change things easily as tech does in the future. 

On the Automation front, Loxone will provide you anything you could want from a home setup, the only limits are your imagination really. 

Find yourself a good partner with in-depth knowledge, try to avoid the ‘builders electrician’ unless they are a Loxone partner, dont be afraid to interview a few partners.

Use loxone’s partner search, the map function will show you those closest to you. 

If you are going to selfbuild, get yourself a good automation, electrical & mechanical design at the start, decide which parts you want to do and have a partner do the rest, the forum is always here for support you will find lots of people willing to help. If you need design help drop me an email or have a look over at our site / Loxone shop. Savvyspaces.co.uk

Good luck.

Martyn

On 24 Mar 2021, at 06:50, Bill Carr <bill...@carpe-diem.co.uk> wrote:

Hi,

Forgive me a potentially stupid question, but I am just starting a self build project with a builder.  The builder has suggested Loxone for our home automation, heating etc - which is fine, but i really like my sonos and alexa multi-room setup I have because its so simple.  Our wifi is great too and run from a bt router and their mesh extenders - again works fab.

How will this compare to go fully Loxone for wifi, music etc alone with the home automation?

How can loxone compare to, for example, google and apple home appliances for use and development as a small player?

Thanks

Bill

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[Colin]

Martyn has given a good answer - but there is another option - don't use Loxone for audio at all.    If you have Sonos and are happy with it then there is no need to change it.     Alexa too if you add a 1home interface to Loxone.    If you do that then you can do without the audioserver.   All it will do is give you alerts and doorbell - of which there are many alternatives.    Or you can add the audioserver for just those alerts and doorbell but still use Sonos for music etc.

Both options are good.   I've chosen to keep Sonos primarily as audio is one thing that technology constantly changes/improves.   I don't want to lock into Loxone that I doubt will keep up in that space.   It isn't just the amp and speakers but also the constantly changing music media and sources.

[Nika Bergant]

Great question, Bill!

Apart from deciding for just one system, either IoT such as Sonos + Alexa or wired Loxone system, you can also integrate both into one. This is exactly what we do at 1Home, where you can connect Loxone and then add your Loxone devices to Alexa (or Apple/Google) mobile app, which then allows you to voice control Loxone devices and also add other wireless devices such as Sonos, Philips Hue, ...

Here's one of our users commanding Alexa assistant via the Sonos speaker that's located in the bathroom that then controls their Loxone devices or trigger automations: https://youtu.be/S5btsT6CzYc 

The integration is fairly simple so anyone can do it themselves. Feel free to try it out in the 7-day free trial here: https://my.1home.io/ in case you can't decided to go with just one system, but would rather merge both together.

Let me know if you'll have any additional questions,
Nika

[TomM]

There's some good info here already but, from reading the original post, I'm not convinced you understand the core purpose of Loxone.  Apologies if you do and you just want some help with specifics (audio/voice/wifi) but here's a very brief overview to hopefully help you understand Loxone better.

Loxone is primarily a control and automation system.  You can connect almost anything that can be controlled to it such as lighting, heating, security, blinds, garage doors, gates, energy (solar, batteries) and much more.  You can, of course, connect audio and video components and use voice control (using a 3rd party add on).  Loxone also monitors sensors as part of the control and automation piece, such as temperature, light, presence, open/closed sensors, weather sensors, and much more.

Loxone produces its own range of proprietary components that are easily installed and configured/integrated.  You can also interface with open standards such as DMX, DALI, IP control, 1-wire, RS232, and much more.  In general, the Loxone proprietary gear is more expensive than using open standards.

Whatever you integrate into Loxone can be linked up to interact and trigger each other.  Temperature sensors don't just control the heating.  They could, for example, be used to trigger lighting when the temperature goes above a certain value.  And motion/presence sensors don't just trigger lighting, you could have them trigger the heating and audio (because they know you're in a room, or not).

Loxone is NOT primarily a multi-room audio/video system, there are better stand-alone systems for that type of application.  But if you are integrating lighting, heating, sensors, and other control and automation then it's perfectly possible and probably a good option to integrate your AV into it too.  Better stand-alone multi-room AV systems can be integrated into Loxone if you want to.

Loxone does NOT replace or do anything with your wifi setup, it does, however, connect to your local network to communicate internally and externally.  BTW if you're doing a new build, remember that the quality of reception of wifi in your current house might not equal the quality in you new house due to different sizes, build materials, layouts etc.

If you have never experienced a full Loxone setup before then get in touch with Loxone (UK) and they should be able to give you a tour of their show home in Berkshire which will give you a much better idea of what Loxone does.

Finally, as previously suggested, if I'm right about your level of understanding then you need to find yourself a good partner, and as someone else noted, don't just roll with your electrician or builder.  Find someone who understands things to a deeper level such as IP networking, open standards, AV.  Really grill them about their technical ability, especially logic and programming.  It's all very well being able to install a motion sensor and push a few wires into a terminal but most of the value you derive from a control/automation system is in the programming of it, not the installation of the components.

Maybe, if you disclose your approximate location (country/area) then perhaps people can recommend local partners.

[Medes.net]

Following on from Colin’s point 

“ Both options are good.   I've chosen to keep Sonos primarily as audio is one thing that technology constantly changes/improves.   I don't want to lock into Loxone that I doubt will keep up in that space.   It isn't just the amp and speakers but also the constantly changing music media and sources.”

There is of course no right or wrong answer here, Audio is a funny market, personal preferences seem the driver more than most other areas.

One thing I like about The Audioserver is that it is very easily updated, ever since loxone started they have been pushing firmware updates and new features on to existing kit, even now the latest firmware works on the oldest miniserver.

The Audioservers connections also means you can if you choose output it to your multiroom Amp or connect speakers directly to it. 

Loads of configurability, connection options, Airplay 2, I cant imagine what the next big audio source will be but I’d be surprised if it was something a firmware update couldn't handle.

Loxone now own Audio based companies too, which does give me extra confidence. 

Tech will of course always move on, it is a rolling machine.

If I had to pick reasons for installing Loxone the No 1 reason would be it relies on nothing other than power to work, 100% cloud free if you choose and the No 2 reason would be the firmware updates, it always feels current. 

A few weeks ago when Google went down globally there were people sat in the dark because their ‘smart’ light bulbs stopped working, what a crazy situation! 

I always tell clients, not to install something critical in your home that relies on an external server, service or subscription.

Sure you could have loxone’s weather service or a spotify account, but thats not critical to operating the building. 

On the Alexa thing, I’m sure there was a free Git hub project to add this to loxone? Not really sure talking to the home Automation system is the next big thing, more the robot vacuum or lawnmower gadgetry. 

Martyn

On 24 Mar 2021, at 08:34, Colin <co...@windmillhse.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/b329baea-0c3f-41bf-8325-5b60fd831472n%40googlegroups.com.

[Colin]

Martyn is correct and the Loxone is a good route.   My only points for the Sonos route:-

1. You already have Sonos and no need to change

2. It too works with Internet down - unless your source is Internet based - in which case Loxone wouldn't help you either.

3. Adding 1Home for Alexa is not a gimmick.  Even if you don't like voice control (which I find invaluable) then you also get access to the Amazon, Google and Homekit worlds.   You can add a constantly expanding network of devices and automation that Loxone will never ever compete with.

4. Loxone will never give you all the audio sources that Sonos do and will.  Depends how eclectic your music tastes are.

[Techdoctor]

Recently my internet went down, but Loxone still worked and Alexa didn't.

 I just wish Loxone would integrate Alexa into their eco-system. 

And I would keep Sonos as your primary audio, Loxone can control Sonos for playback etc.

The other thing to remember as with any cloud based system (Alexa, Google Home etc) should a company, you use to control your lights etc via Alexa, decide to move away from the home automation aspect you are now left with some very expensive door stops. Where as Loxone's bread and butter is home automation. 

As a side note, I never understood the appeal of smart light bulbs, what happens when they die, you have to get another and set it all up again. Much better to get a smart switches.

[Colin]

I think Techdoctor gets it right about longevity.   That is the key question when Loxone or not Loxone - is that item still going to be used in more than ten years?

If more than ten years then Loxone is clearly the way to go.  You don’t want to rip out cabling more than every few decades - or even longer.  Many homes have switches and circuits well over 50 years old.

However some areas are advancing so fast - do you still use the same audio as ten years ago?  That CD player is a brick because we now have better.   And in these areas why do you want to tie them into your long-term home infrastructure?   Or have to get that expensive Loxone partner to visit your house so you can change such items.

You can get the best of the long-term and the short-term worlds.  They do interoperate.    Loxone sales and partners will serve up all sorts of fear and doubt over doing this - but it is a sensible approach.  Break out the walled garden when appropriate.