New Lighting Controller (V2?)

[Robbie]

Hi all,

I've been away for a few weeks, but back home now. Everyone in the household already has the new app (with plenty of complaints!) and my first job was to update the firmware & config.

The new config tells me that the Lighting Controllers I'm using are now old V1. - Fair enough, I'm all for change. What do I replace them with? I can't see any drop in V2 replacement. Or do I have to redesign all my lighting, somehow using the Lighting Central block?

What are the pro's & con's of changing, or just sticking with the Lighting Controller V1? (New features? Better integration with the new app?)

Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question, but it doesn't seem obvious to me, so I'd appreciate any advice &/or explanation.

[Duncan]

when you click on a v1 lighting controller, a large icon appears on the top ribbon bar titled 'convert block'

this converts a v1 to a v2 and attempts to keep the internal settings

there are problems though:

sometimes a converted block doesnt work properly - ive had a few where they appear to be sending out a value but the lights doesnt actually come on - i thought a few dimmers had blown, but recreated the v2 block from scratch and it worked fine (after spending several hours changing dimmers!)

the s1-s8 inputs work differently - in v1 a single click turns on a particular scene, another click turns off the lights. in v2 the first click turns on a scene, subsequent clicks cycle through the scenes like the + input and you have to double click to turn off. you cant configure v2 to behave like v1.

the big plus of v2 is that you can have upto 18 light circuits where this is needed plus some other minor changes such as the fade/transition between scenes

[David]

If you are not planning to use the cycle through feature, then you can make the new lighting block perform like the V1 lighting block by ticking only the off scene in the + column.

Then the multi clicks on the scene s1-s8 (now renamed) cycle between scene sleeted and off.

[Robbie]

Thanks Duncan. I've found the Loxone notes here now as well.

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 9:28:10 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

the big plus of v2 is that you can have upto 18 light circuits where this is needed plus some other minor changes such as the fade/transition between scenes

 

Actually the extra circuits will come in very useful. My largest room (a open plan kitchen/dining/living area) has 12 circuits, but three of those (shadow gap, above kitchen units and plinth) are RGBW LED tape, and I hadn't counted on needing a separate circuit for each White & RGB, leaving me three circuits short on the V1 lighting controller. I got around this by combining the two kitchen LED tapes & two downlight circuits - so V2 will allow me to split these up (as had always been intended).

Additional fade options could be useful. I would like to have a slower fade into the Movie scene (say 10 seconds) whilst keeping the quick 1 second changes between other scenes.

Thank you both Duncan & David for the other tips as well. Any other V2 tips are greatly appreciated.

[David H]

If you change the led rgbw circuit to a smart controller you can use just one output to control it all. 

On 18 Oct 2017 10:54, "Robbie" <roban...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Duncan. I've found the Loxone notes here now as well.

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 9:28:10 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

the big plus of v2 is that you can have upto 18 light circuits where this is needed plus some other minor changes such as the fade/transition between scenes

 

Actually the extra circuits will come in very useful. My largest room (a open plan kitchen/dining/living area) has 12 circuits, but three of those (shadow gap, above kitchen units and plinth) are RGBW LED tape, and I hadn't counted on needing a separate circuit for the White & RGB, leaving me three circuits short on the V1 lighting controller. I got around this by combining the two kitchen LED tape & two other circuits - so V2 will allow me to split these up (as had always been intended).

Additional fade options could be useful. I would like to have a slower fade into the Movie scene (say 10 seconds) whilst keeping the quick 1 second changes between other scenes.

Thank you both Duncan & David for the other tips as well. Any other V2 tips are greatly appreciated.

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[Robbie]

David,

Are you saying there is now a combined RGBW Colour Picker, rather than the separate White slider + RGB Colour Picker?

I did suggest this to Loxone last year, but they felt that they were better separate. I also posted here to ask if anyone had any ideas to implement an RGBW Colour Picker, but no one replied. :(

Or am I getting over excited for no reason?

On Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 2:53:59 PM UTC+1, David wrote:

If you change the led rgbw circuit to a smart controller you can use just one output to control it all. 

On 18 Oct 2017 10:54, "Robbie" <roban...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Duncan. I've found the Loxone notes here now as well.

On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 9:28:10 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

the big plus of v2 is that you can have upto 18 light circuits where this is needed plus some other minor changes such as the fade/transition between scenes

 

Actually the extra circuits will come in very useful. My largest room (a open plan kitchen/dining/living area) has 12 circuits, but three of those (shadow gap, above kitchen units and plinth) are RGBW LED tape, and I hadn't counted on needing a separate circuit for the White & RGB, leaving me three circuits short on the V1 lighting controller. I got around this by combining the two kitchen LED tape & two other circuits - so V2 will allow me to split these up (as had always been intended).

Additional fade options could be useful. I would like to have a slower fade into the Movie scene (say 10 seconds) whilst keeping the quick 1 second changes between other scenes.

Thank you both Duncan & David for the other tips as well. Any other V2 tips are greatly appreciated.

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[Robbie]

Another question:

Reading the information for the V2 at Loxone, it only mentions trigger inputs I1-I4. Is the V2 controller limited to only 4 direct trigger inputs?

Our master switch panel (attached picture) includes direct (trigger input) switches for eight of the circuits.

[David H]

One output controls rgbw if the circuit is a smart actuator. Read about it on Sonos documentation or try it. I have it working with the air rgbw controllers. 

Cheers David

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[Robbie]

Thank you David. All my RGBW drivers are RGBW Dimmer Air's or Multi Extension Air's, so they should be smart actuators. :)

Hopefully I'll get a change to play with config tonight.

PS: I assume you mean Loxone documentation, not Sonos! (Although adding Sonos is also on my system road map.)

[Kops]

Works with Loxone DMX dimmers as well, once you convert the block to V2 and have these as smart actuators. Finally now you can have all the four channels of the RGBW under one control. Drawbacks: If someone has been using LED strips in extra brightness achieved by turning on all four channels RGB + W at the same time, this is now not being possible in the standard color picker. For me, however, it is rather a feature than a bug.

BTW if you haven't switched to V9 or have not yet converted your blocks, please make sure you reserve enough time to do the job. I have spent one full evening just adjusting the config after all the block conversions (and I did it one by one, not all at once).

1. Randomly, the conversion process does a bad job in setting up proper output types (Dimmer vs 0..10V, switch,...) so you'd better check these all
2. For all RGBW strips where you have been accessing the W output directly (as a part of the room lighting) you'll need to update the block logic entirely as the separate W channel is no longer present in the smart actuators config
   
3. If you have been controlling the PSUs for the given LED output just by checking the output value of the block, this won't work any longer with smart. You will have to use the scene analogue output value AQs <> 0 to turn on PSUs
4. If you use push-button to start scene or mix scene into existing one, and after that you make any manual correction via app (making the current mood as custom), next press of the same push-button will do nothing.
5. Something like mixing scenes I was very anxious to get with the update, but the overall implementation is a bit weird. I primarily use a push button to mix-in scene that illuminates the kitchen working place (more individual channels to be turned on). However, if anything happens with the lights setting after it gets mixed in, I am not able to mix it out with the next press of the same push-button. It is extra confusing for my wife and I will have to think about different way of controlling her corner of the kitchen. :( I heard a rumor that another update is coming soon, so hopefully they work on these features as we speak.

[Robbie]

Hi Guys,
 
Well I used the Convert Block button to update the Light controller in our open plan Dinning/Kitchen/Living space, to V2 and have a play, but eventually decided to reload the previous config back with V1.
 
Here are my observations & issues.
 
 
1) The new V2 Light controller is limited to only 4 direct control "Trigger inputs" (I1-I4).
 
Unfortunately, my master switch panel next to the entrance (pictured in my post on Oct 18 above) uses 8 direct control "Trigger input" buttons (as well as a master scene button & buttons for extractor fan, blinds & garden lights).
In the dinning area I have a panel with a master scene button and 3 buttons with direct control of the dinning lights.
In the living area I have another panel with a master scene button and 3 buttons with direct control of the living area lights (as well as blinds & garden lights).
 
In total 10 of the 12 circuits have a direct control button in one (or two) location(s) connected to  "Trigger inputs" I1-I10 on the current V1 lighting controller.
 

So my options are;

• Only use 4 inputs, and replace the panels with new ones with less switches or find another use for the surplus buttons. - However, as some users within the house do not use the app, these direct control buttons are important. It would also involve plastering the walls around the smaller switch panels. :(
• Split the area in to three (V2) lighting controllers. - This causes problems with the single master scene selection button. I expect it is possible to link all three (V2) lighting controllers, but this could cause confusion with a single scene button on the wall panels, but three different controllers (& therefore three scene selection points) in the app.
• Stick with the V1 Light controller. - However the V2 Light controller has some useful new features to me (see below).

This lack of "Trigger inputs" was my reason for needing to revert back to Light controller V1, so I would be grateful for anyone's suggestions and thoughts on the pro's & con's of my three options (or any other solutions) please.

 
 
2) The increase from 12 to 18 AQ outputs to welcome. I had designed the lighting scheme within the 12 output limit, but not counted on each RGBW lighting circuit taking up two outputs (RGB, and W), leaving me short. The spare outputs may also be useful for plug in lamps (with Smart Socket Air or wifi plugs).
 
3) The new combined RGB+W colour picker is good (& also solves my shortage of outputs). The white colour temperature adjustment is a fantastic improvement, with it's use of the white circuit + R or GB rather than trying to create white from RGB as in V1.
 
I have suggested to Loxone a "dim to warm" check box option that would reduce the White colour temperature as the lights are dimmed (like Philips DimTone / WarmGlow & Osram GlowDim lamps). 
 
4) The new V2 Light controller looses the separate on/off switches for each circuit in the "custom" section of the app. It was useful having these, toggle circuits off & on without loosing the last set brightness. Now the only option is to use the sliders to turn individual circuits off & on.
 
5) The new Master Brightness slider in the app is a an excellent feature!
 
I also put forward a suggestion to Loxone to allow push button control of the Master Brightness.
 
Maybe acting like the previous "I" "Trigger input" button dimming, but on a scene button. i.e.: Existing single click to change scene, but additional hold to dim down, then release and hold again to dim up (or alternatively separate buttons for Master Brightness Up and Master Brightness Down).
 
I believe that a combination of Scene Select and Master Brightness could negate my need for individual direct control "Trigger input" buttons in many rooms.
 
Other intelligent lighting switches I have come across already work like this (scene selection + master dim/bright).
 
6) The Master Brightness does not appear to affect the RGBW strips, which remained at their set brightness whilst all other lights dim, with the RGBW strips finally dimming off only when Master Brightness reaches 0%.
 
I would have expected the RGBW strips to dim with the other circuits on Master Brightness.
 
7) I have suggested to Loxone that it would be useful to be able to set the Master Brightness level that switched circuits (i.e. not dimmer circuits) turn on or off at.
 
Users may prefer some lights (such as a bright overhead) only to be on at high master brightness, and others (such as a table lamp) to still be on at low brightness.

I'm interested in anyone else's thoughts on the new V2, and also help in deciding the best way to solve the new lower number of 4 "Trigger inputs".

[Kops]

Guys,

I fully agree that the New Lighting Controller (V2) requires further fixes.

Moreover, did you notice the strange behavior on scene change using the inputs (+) and (-)? Logically, plus moves to higher scene number, minus to lower. So far good here. Now, after a scene reset {double or triple click}, the first scene after you hit (-) is scene number 1. Next press of minus goes back to zero and then the next goes finally to your last scene in the list.

Which means, that on a first click you get same scene regardless of (+) or (-) input. Must be a bug, what do you think?

Thanks.

[Kops]

Just quick update, it has been confirmed by Loxone team as a bug Ticket [#120559]. Details with pictures are here, for those who are interested.

[Toon]

Great!!!

This has been driving some frustrations around here. We‘re really counting on the - to activate evening/night light moods (they are sorted from bright over relaxing to very dim).

[Kops]

A related question here.

Shouldn't the scene number return back to initial reset position (zero) every time lights go off completely? Normally, if you have scenes and also direct control of some lights through I1, ... inputs, if you release the scene lights by the individual switches, the AQ does not return back to the idle state as with double or triple click. Is there any reason for this or again bug?