EldoLED LIN180 cause LEDs to 'glow' when off

[Rob_in]

Hi all,

I thought this had been discussed but cannot find the thread. Apologies if it's a double post.

We're almost there with our build and installed all the ceiling spots yesterday. The LEDs/luminaires/bulbs/whatever you want to call them are Voltus 24v 3300k modules. Driven with EldoLed LIN180 drivers.

These work like a charm and produce nice light. Dimming is excellent and I seem to have placed the spots well (phew!), so very happy.

But... when they are off the LEDs 'glow' very faintly. I noticed this before but with a single test LED I put this down to residual power somewhere in the system (small capacitor or something) and assumed with more LEDs connected this would quickly drain. Nope... all our LEDs glow very faintly when they are supposed to be off.

It isn't a massive problem in the day as you can't see, but at night it is noticeable.

This seems to indicate when the DMX signal tells the dimmer to turn off, it isn't doing this fully. There must be a slight trickle of current still going through the lights.

Has anyone else noticed this with the EldoLED drivers? Do you know why this happens? Is there a solution (aside from cutting power to the driver with a relay which I don't fancy doing)?

Cheers,

Robin

[Duncan]

Not with that particular driver but yes with other dmx drivers. I used some logic and a relay to cut the low voltage dmx output power completely to that circuit when the light is fully off

[seb303]

Hi Robin,

I have lots of eldoLED 180D drivers here and do not get this.  They dim smoothly right down to 0, which is completely off.  Do you have the eldoLED TOOLbox pro hardware and software to configure the drivers?  With this you can directly control the drivers - you can try manually setting a "0" value and see if you still get a dim glow.  You could also play around with the driver settings.  I set mine to have a logarithmic response (gives more resolution at the low end than the similar setting in the Loxone config).

This is the UK eldoLED rep who might be able to help...
Simon Aldred
07540 726384
simon....@eldoled.com

[Rob_in]

Thanks for the info. So maybe this is just a config issue?

I have the EldoLED drivers set to Log and have turned off Loxone's perception option because of that.

I don't have the EldoLED TOOLbox. Is there anyway you can modify these settings without the extra hardware? This model of driver has a 'show' mode which I used to test them and saw the glow with that too.

It does seem odd. Will investigate further and drop that rep. a line if cannot resolve it.

Cheers,

Robin

[seb303]

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 8:58:17 PM UTC+1, Rob_in wrote:

I don't have the EldoLED TOOLbox. Is there anyway you can modify these settings without the extra hardware? This model of driver has a 'show' mode which I used to test them and saw the glow with that too.

I think with the 180D you can modify all the useful settings from the buttons so probably no need for the extra hardware.  Odd that you get a glow even in 'show' mode.  Do you have any other lights test it with?  Maybe a strip of linear LEDs?

[Rob_in]

Hi again,

To follow up on this. I spoke to EldoLED support about this and they told me that they think it's an issue with the 'low end' PSUs we have. Our PSUs being Meanwell DR-100-24.

He suggested we install some 'high end' PSUs. Whatever that means.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to what he's getting at?

What PSUs are being used by everyone with their EldoLED drivers?

I'd imagine when the lights are off, and drawing no current, then the choice of PSU would be negligible at best as any PSU would hardly be struggling to supply such low currents.

Confused!

Robin

[RSinn]

By low end I think he means the DR range is meanwells budget range. They go up through the letters MDR, ndr, sdr etc. But like you say, it does seem strange. Is it possible to manually set the driver to zero and see if it occurs. Perhaps zero in Loxone is 2 on the eldo. I think I read somewhere about dmx being 256 so each % Loxone uses is rounded.

[Rob_in]

Hi,

Yeah, the drivers have a 'show' mode and when I use that to zero them the glow persists.

We've also got an LED strip attached to one now and it's the same with that: the individual LEDs glow very faintly.

Robin

[Kevp]

Try different bulbs.

Had a similar issue with loxone dimmers and the issue was crap bulbs.

[Rob_in]

Nope. The LED strip we have also glows faintly. Nothing to do with the LEDs.

[RSinn]

Can you try the eldo on a different PSU to rule that out? If it's the same with multiple bulbs and PSU's then you know it's eldo. Check the leakage on your PSU
datasheet versus a top end meanwell.

Also, probably not relevant, but I remember having a chat with them on their stand and they do something different with pwm that they pride themselves on for zero flicker (can't remember the details), perhaps that has something to do with it.

[Rob_in]

HI,

We have 3 Meanwell PSUs powering 5 EldoLED drivers. All circuits are the same. It's definitely not a one off.

"Check the leakage on your PSU datasheet versus a top end meanwell." What do you mean by that? From what I can tell the problem will certainly be in the EldoLED driver. They are supposed to turn a LED off, but instead, are letting a very small current through. The PSU that is powering the EldoLED driver seems irrelevant here. It's just supplying 24v at up to 100W.

Robin

[RSinn]

I agree with you Rob just trying to rule things out. If you take the advice from eldo on face value that it's low end PSU then maybe that's because they know it allows a small leakage through, let's say 10% of the PSU leakage. In a high end power supply this may mean not enough to light the led but if your PSU has more leakage then enough could be getting through. I could be talking rubbish but just trying to give you ideas to go around. Give eldo a call and ask what they mean about the PSU issue. It would be interesting to see their explanation.

Just checked the datasheets I have. Sdr and ndr are low but HDR doesn't have the leakage on the sheet so could be a fair bit.

[Rob_in]

Ah... the EldoLED guy just replied. He said:

In general the advise comes from the fact that Meanwell DR100 comes without PE connection. I think the leakage current is coming from the Meanwell. I have almost the same setup at home and saw similar results on POWERdrive DC products when powered by Meanwell DR60. Switching to HLG100 solved my issue.

HLG aren't ideal though because they aren't DIN Rail mounted. Not sure I want to change the PSUs just for this issue. Not unless a suitable replacement can be found at a reasonable cost - or maybe I can sell the DR-100s here as they work perfectly for Miniserver, etc :)

Can anyone recommend another model (or manufacturer) guaranteed to work with EldoLED LinearDrive?

Cheers,

Robin

[Rob_in]

On Monday, 6 August 2018 14:40:50 UTC+2, Rob_in wrote:

Can anyone recommend another model (or manufacturer) guaranteed to work with EldoLED LinearDrive?

I discovered that the MeanWell MDR-100-24 has leakage current specified at <1mA which compares well with the HLG series which are specified < 0.75mA but the MDR is rail mounted (albeit rather deep but can live with that).

Seems the HLG is end of life and is replaced with ELG-100-24A-3Y (at least think so as as far as I can tell? Has < 0.75mA leakage).

Do you think either of these will solve the problem or is this whole leakage current thing a wild goose chase?

Robin

[RSinn]

No idea! I just try combos to rule things out. Get a better PSU off the internet, try it out and return it if it doesn't sort the problem. You'll only lose £10 max in postage.

[Rob_in]

Interestingly I have discovered if I connect one of these controllers to the same PSU as the Miniserver, etc there is no 'glow'.

The Miniserver, extensions and our Modbus relays pull 16W (measured at the 240v input to it's PSU) but seems like that is enough to 'soak up' any current leakage.

Robin

[Andrew B]

Or there is imperfect isolation between the control signals and the power signals and you’re getting some kind of ground loop... are your grounds tied together or independent?

[RSinn]

Yeah isn't there something in the Loxone wiring documents...
"You must connect all the power supply GND’s together. Otherwise problems may occur due to difference in potential."

https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/wiring-basics/

[Rob_in]

On Wednesday, 22 August 2018 08:46:54 UTC+2, RSinn wrote:

"You must connect all the power supply GND’s together. Otherwise problems may occur due to difference in potential." 

Well... this will be the case when the DR-RDN20 units I ordered arrive so all good ;)

TBH, it's a blessing in disguise because currently we have 4 x 24v PSUs spread over 3 circuit breakers & 3 RCDs. Sounds good, but we've already come home to find 1 RCD tripped (lighting storm again) which happened to be the Loxone supply so the Miniserver was off.

With these DR units this shouldn't happen as will share the outputs of all 4 PSUs. This means all 3 breakers or RCDs will have to trip to take the Miniserver and lights offline. Of course I will have to program the MS to pick up on an PSU failure and limit light current draw accordingly, but that should be easy enough using the 'Max' dimmer value on lighting controllers (or I could do something smarter but hardly worth it for what will be an 'emergency' condition).

Cheers,

Robin 

[Rob_in]

On Wednesday, 22 August 2018 08:46:54 UTC+2, RSinn wrote:

"You must connect all the power supply GND’s together. Otherwise problems may occur due to difference in potential."

I actually just tried that (connecting the grounds of all our PSUs) and it doesn't change the 'glow'. So no, that's doesn't seem to be the issue here.

Robin 

[Rob_in]

Hi all,

Just an update on this in case anyone comes looking for the same thing: I swapped out our 24v PSUs for a model with ground (Meanwell NDR-120-24) and this solved the issue.

Luckily our cabinet is deep enough to accommodate these PSUs but others might not be so lucky.

Cheers,

Robin