RGB+WW LED Tape DMX dimming control boards?

[Alan]

Hi

I was hoping someone might be able to help with this query, I'm in the middle of creating a 'tv' wall (ie, TV  sunken into a stud partition, surrounded by a few alcoves and speakers etc.) I was hoping to light a few of the alcoves and behind the tv. I wanted 3 'zones' to do this and thought i would try experimenting with some dmx controllers and LED tape. I think i've settled on RGB+WW tape as its quite versatile (the majority of the time i'm guessing it'll be some shade of 'warm white' but can introduce colour too). I started looking for some control boards but have only come across 3 channel, 8 channel or 24 channel variants (this type of thing https://www.amazon.co.uk/Channel-Controller-Group-Decoder-Strip/dp/B00Q32UW02/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_i).

Which leads me to wonder if i can actually use the RGB+WW with this type of controller. I was hoping to hook up some sort of dimmer face plate (https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-dmx-wall-switch.html)  to control the zones or perhaps a remote. I'm still holding out on loxone but thought if it was DMX i could add this in later. I was then hoping to replicate this sort of setup in the kitchen when I make a start on it. 

This was a late addition to my plans, hence I have a room full of 4x2 and plasterboard ;) 

Any information would be appreciated as always. 

Thanks

Alan 

 

[Duncan]

yes you could use that dmx dimmer or any other constant voltage dmx dimmer that is suitable for the voltage of the rgbww strip

for 3 zones of rgbw you would need 12 channels in total - and why not go for loxone dmx control from the beginning and miss out using the separate wall switch. all you need is the dmx extension and some cat5/6/7 from it to the dmx dimmer along with a local power supply close to the led strip.

it might be better to get dmx dimmers with cases such as:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12CH-RGB-LED-Controller/32367030512.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.53.ppA25X&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10192_10190_10301_10136_10137_10303_10060_10155_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10182_10184_10078_10079_10073_10189_142,searchweb201603_49,ppcSwitch_3&btsid=463a393f-b842-49ce-8d18-d952d55deb07&algo_expid=fc697644-5575-41bc-b8ad-5ab81d17411f-7&algo_pvid=fc697644-5575-41bc-b8ad-5ab81d17411f

i prefer the ltech dimmers as they seem to be a little better at the dim end of the control range and something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LT-858-5A-4CH-CV-DMX-Decoder-DC12-24V-input-5A-CH-Max-20A-output/32415414304.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.87.BpDGuM&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10192_10190_10301_10136_10137_10303_10060_10155_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10182_10184_10078_10079_10073_10189_142,searchweb201603_49,ppcSwitch_3&btsid=8d37432d-5062-492a-bbe6-1a37eac1da8a&algo_expid=01a2d431-4d5b-49ae-b6c6-ad69081e857b-12&algo_pvid=01a2d431-4d5b-49ae-b6c6-ad69081e857b

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LTECH-rgb-dmx-512-led-controller-console-wall-mounted-knob-panel-wireless-RF-2-4g-dmx512/32689964432.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.140.BbEGGD&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10192_10190_10301_10136_10137_10303_10060_10155_437_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_303_100031_10099_10103_10102_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_519_10111_10112_10113_10114_10179_10182_10184_10078_10079_10073_10189_142-10050,searchweb201603_49,ppcSwitch_3&btsid=c190a948-6625-4245-a00f-49b892ce9c9f&algo_expid=3c1e14e4-aa75-4ef3-836b-f07e5b63db25-19&algo_pvid=3c1e14e4-aa75-4ef3-836b-f07e5b63db25

gives you wireless dmx control with a dedicated wall switch if you dont want to use loxone

[Alan]

Thanks for your suggestions Duncan, you're probably right that its better to go for loxone at this stage, and that is what i would prefer to do however i'm still working on that option with my other half ;). 

As for the first item you linked to, the 12 channel DMX dimmer driver, if I were to use that with perhaps one of the wall switches or dimmer faceplates you also included, how are the zones controlled individually? I only see one bank of DIP switches? how would I assign the first group of RGBW as being 'zone1' and the second as 'zone2'? effectively that would be channel 1 through 8. I don't think I've got the hang of how the channels relate to the dimmer units...a little confused. 

I thought the DIP switch assigns the unit a number that would relate to a 'zone' in my case, so that all the 4 groups of rgbw outputs from that unit as given the same ID and dimmed by the same amount? but perhaps that's not how it works?

Thanks in advance

Alan 

[Duncan]

dmx addresses are unique and are sequencial for a device from its starting address set by the dip switches/device

so if the dmx driver is set to ID 1 and has 12 channels, then the channels will be assigned numbers 1-12

in loxone, you create a rgbw dmx device which will take up 4 adjacent channels, and set the dmx device address as the first for that group, so rgbw1 will have 1, rgbw2 will be 5, rgbw3 will be9 etc
when you create a rgbw group you will only see the starting address for that group in loxone, not all 4 addresses that it actually uses.
you then simply add the rgb and w devices onto your config and attach it to an output of your lighting controller.

if you set 2 devices with the same address they will work at the same time - so if you have more tape than a single driver can handle, you have 2 drivers with the same address and split the load over the 2 drivers.

if you want all 3 groups to be controlled exactly the same, then simply attach all 3 rgb w outputs to the same lighting controller ouput and all 3 rgbw groups will be sent the same colour and brightness, but you are most likely to control each group separately so you can have fun with gradients etc

[Alan]

Thanks for clearing that up Duncan, that's kinda what I was thinking in terms of Loxone, so that's useful. I couldn't quite understand how I would do the same thing just using a DMX faceplate without using loxone. In that case i'm guessing the faceplate would see the whole device as the same 'group' so all the channels would be controlled within that 'zone'. So i'd have to get 3 individual 4 channel controllers, each having their own address to create three zones of RGBW. 

...I think I'll work on the Loxone angle as it would save quite alot of trouble in the long run and be more flexible in the long run. 

Thanks

Alan

[Duncan]

also using loxone gives the options of playing - gradients between the zones, variations over time, sound to light linked to your multi-room audio etc etc

[Joakim Arfvidsson]

Here's my favorite DMX constant voltage driver: http://www.shop.dmx4all.de/en/dmx4all-products/led-dimmer/dmx-led-constant-voltage-dimmer/DMX-LED-Dimmer-X9HR.html

The main difference from the Loxone one is the pwm frequency. This one goes to 4kHz if you need it. It's also cheap per channel, and handles any long strip (up to 9 A per channel).

I'm installing 9 of these units to run all the LED strips in my house...

[Robbie]

On Tuesday, July 4, 2017 at 4:05:51 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

sound to light linked to your multi-room audio etc etc

Ooo, that sounds very interesting!

I was already thinking of a party mode for my RGB(W) tape. How do you achive sound to light?

[Duncan]

there's always more than 1 way of course

in essence there are 3 ways:

1) attach your music source to a sound to light converter, then use the output of that to trigger a preset light sequence or fade in loxone using a digital input.

2) arrange to switch rgbw control from the dmx driver to a sound to a free standing rgb strip sound to light controller eg using relays - there are plenty of StoL controllers that have a line input and wireless remote control, which is probably better than using one with only a built in microphone

3) do it completely within loxone - probably the most difficult but as always most adjustable/tweakable - it involves a few steps:

a) use a loxone analog input to drive a trigger level eg using a > compared to an analog virtual input
b) feed the analog input from a suitable sound source
c) arrange for some lighting presets or random changes to be changed by the triggers

to trigger an analog input, you need to have your sound system have a constant output despite changes in the listener music loudness, otherwise it will only trigger at certain volume levels.  you could use an audio amplifier with an AGC function, but ive never found a suitable one so the way ive created it is to use a logitech squeezebox duet player which can be attached to logitech music player (see musicserver4lox as a multi-room music player for ideas) - the duet player needs to be synced with another player/zone on which you are going to listen to the music, and the duet player can be set via LMS to have its line output at a constant 100% and ignore volume changes - absolutely perfect for my needs.

the line output of the duet it attached to a loxone analog input and compared to a trigger threshold set by a virtual analog input - the output of the > comparison is pulses triggered by the louder beats of the music.

to control the rgb strip, i connect the rgb output of the lighting controller via an analog multiplexer - normally the light controller rgb output goes via the multiplexer straight to the rgb strip, but applying a signal to the S input of the multiplexer drives the rgb strip from the 2nd multiplexer input, and this is connected to your sequencer/randomiser which in turn is driven/triggered by those pulses from the analog input. now you can have multiple rooms with rgb lights which all behave indepenently via their own room lighting controller, but when set to rgb mode will connect all the rgb strips to your sound to light source - whole house party mode!

trying to create suitable changes/sequences was quite a challenge:

completely random changes didnt work - many were too dark for instance
changing the brightness with every beat works well, but colour changes need to be less often
linear fades look rubbish - exponential or logarithmic brightness changes, particularly fades looked much better and happened quicker/looked sharper