Loxone as KNX Master Controller

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

Hello everybody,

I am using Loxone as KNX Master Controller in my home. It means that I have different KNX devices such as:

• MDT Smart 86 as room controller. These are programmed to detect the button press and use it as "pulse input" in Loxone Config.
• MDT BE-16000.01 (16 channgel input). These are programmed to detect the input triggering. I use them to have many inputs for conventional switches, PIR and fire detectors, etc...
• Interra ITR524-16A-01 and IPAS Powerblock 16output. I use them as "silly devices", managing the different outputs to control plugs, lights, blinds and so on... 

IN this way, I have many inputs and outputs in KNX devices, but all the logic resides in Loxone. I thought it would be a good way to have a cheaper installation (as Loxone extensions are quite expensive) and I would have a "B plan" in case that Loxone dissapear some day, because I could re-program all the system in the KNX "normal mode".

But I am experiencing some problems when I send several "orders" (groups address) at the same time, for example...

• I have a "good night" mode that moves all the blinds at 100%. Some times, 1 of the blinds don't start the "down" movement and some times, it doesn't "stop" the movement. It's not always the same blind, not always the same "relay" and not always the same KNX device, so I'm lost
• I have a radiating floor system wich I manage in different "zones". When Loxone Room Controller switches 1 of them, it should open the valve actuator and start the aerothermal fancoil, but some times 1 of the relays doesn't switch. Again, it's not always the same relay neither device....

I have experienced it with the outputs controlled by the Interra ITR, but not with those controlled by the IPAS powerblock, so I'm suspecting that it could be a Loxone problem or a Interra ITR problem, because one of them isn't capable to manage "so many" group adresses at same time. We are talking about 8 blinds so, these are 8 group adresses at same time, not many I think...

I've talked to Loxone support and they asked me to introduce different "delays" using flags, because it could be a KNX bus saturation, but Ithink these are too many orders for that...

Has someone experienced something similar? Any ideas about how to solve it?

Thank you very much in advance

Regards

[Andras]

Do you have a dedicated group address for the "good night" start command? I have seen this behaviour when Loxone was sending lot of KNX commands at the same time. The way I have solved it was to create one group address and associated this address with the appropriate actuators (additional to their regular group addresses). This way there's only one KNX datagram sent from Loxone to the bus. The drawback is that logic starts creeping to the KNX world instead of it being pure Loxone.

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

No, I don't have a dedicated group address for the "Good Night" mode, precisely because it would mean that logic would be in both "worlds" (Loxone and KNX).

And also because I use several modes that would stablish a different % in blinds, so Loxone Blind Block calculates the time that the relay should be closed to move up or down the blind.

I understand what you mean, but it would involve managing logic in both ways, and it could be quite confusing...

I always thought that Loxone could be a great KNX logic module but, with this limitation, it loses so much points.... :(

[Andras]

I have also seen some weird behaviour when Loxone was sending commands to KNX relays for example. Lights in my living space originally were controlled by an MDT KNX relay. I noticed though that it takes 0.5.-0.7 seconds for all relays to execute the on/off commands triggered by a single event in Loxone. Not sure whether Loxone executes these commands sequentially with some delay or it's some KNX specific side effect, but it was very noticeable.

This was one of my reasons I moved all lights to 24V tree dimmers. Now they all go on/off in sync.

[Rob_in]

On Monday, 9 December 2019 09:45:46 UTC+1, Julián Medrano Silvestre wrote:

Has someone experienced something similar? Any ideas about how to solve it?

I only saw a few KNX 'oddities' with messages occasionally getting lost (from switches to Loxone). But then discovered the KNX bus voltage was very low (17v IIRC) so it was pretty amazing anything was working TBH! Changed the Bus PSU and now all good.

So, yeah, check your bus voltage is good.

Also, ETS has a bus monitor which shows a utilisation percentage at the bottom. You could try watching that when executing these commands and make sure the bus isn't becoming saturated.

Cheers,

Robin

[Duncan]

i have a 'goodnight' button that turns off all the downstairs lights- all knx dimmers (around 16) and relays plus some air sockets, and they go off simultaneously by visual assessment so suspect you have a technical issue

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

Duncan, A couple of questions related...
1. Do you use the feedback group addresses in KNX? I think it could be the reason why the knx bus is getting saturated...
2. For blind control, I am now using both relays as independent, and blind block opens and closes the appropriate relay during the time needed. I have also considered the possibility of configuring both outputs as "blind control " in KNX, using a very Long time in knx settings for the complete UP and DOWN movement. Which option do you use and why?

Thanks for the answer!

[Duncan]

1) no, just normal loxone blocks sending out messages to knx actuators

2) straight relays controlled by loxone in pairs (well 3 per blind actually) using a combination of loxone relays and dmx relays - the reason being my blinds have a volt-free pulse input rather than relays driving the actual motors, so the only way to get them controlled is a relay to short the inputs for up, one for down and a 3rd for stop

[armando puente]

I do have use the knx sensor input on the loxone side with the same address of the knx switch, in loxone it is not important and you dont  need it, but if you use a knx app at the same time, i know it might not have sense,  the changes made on the knx app you might them as well in the loxone app, thats how that knx sensor works.

About the knx bus problems i have a few knx devices , conected with cat 5 via bus, not the right one, and works flawlessly, perhaps you should try to set the sending messages on the knx bus as low as posible.

Enviado desde mi iPad

El dic. 14, 2019, a la(s) 5:55 p. m., Duncan <joanne...@gmail.com> escribió:



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